Different Countries, Same Story with S. Jae Ali

Different Countries, Same Story with S. Jae Ali

[00:00:00]

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: welcome back to The Ed Interview, a podcast for Black educators with me, your host, Dr. Asia. It's a beautiful summer day. For those listening to this in the fall, in the winter, whatever, just know in July 2026, it was gorgeous here in Denver.

Um, I have another amazing guest, and I'll say that, uh, SJ Ali and I met at a healing convening in LA. So my organization, Liberate Educators Lab, along with Micia Mosley's, um, Black Teacher Project and Jaleesa Evans' Black Educator Advocates Network, put on a healing convening way back in March, April of 2026.

And SJ ran, ran up and said, "Hey, I just went to the Black Girl, um, Museum, the Museum for [00:01:00] Black Girls in Denver, and it was so great." And so we had a great conversation, and now she's sitting here in the podcast studio. Welcome to the show.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Thank you for having me. Good morning. And it is a beautiful day here in LA. It's so hot, but it's a beautiful day. I'm grateful.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, I, I really love LA. I, I... You know, people are, "How can you afford, people can afford, how can people afford it?" And I don't think Denver's getting any cheaper either, so I get that part

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Man, LA is, this is nothing but God. I'm not gonna hold you. I, here is $6 for gas. I don't even wanna

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: let's not be stressed on this beautiful day.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, let's not talk about that. Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: It is crazy

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: yeah, and I, yeah, I can, and we can have a whole conversation about educators on top of that being able to afford, you know, to pay for all the things. Um, and maybe that'll come in your, in your, uh, interview or maybe it won't. But start off, tell us a little bit about yourself

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Okay. Well, my name is SJ Ali, and I love going by J. I [00:02:00] am a South Side girl, south side of Chicago, '90s baby, and I am the only girl of five brothers, so life was as crazy as you think it was growing up. I have always been into all things creative, explorative, curious. I've gotten in more trouble than I would like to admit just following my curiosity, but I don't regret any of it.

So it has gotten me where I'm at today, I'm here with you because I was curious, wanted to have a conversation. The minute I heard you were from Denver, I was like, "I was just there three days ago." And so yes, I get to sit here with you, and curiosity has, ooh, gotten me through this crazy ride we call education, so

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah. I have a feeling that's going to be a part of the theme that we're hearing. Yeah. Um, and yeah, you know, it's, uh, the, the s- the constant, the curiosity, constantly saying yes or, and constantly saying no is huge, right? So

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Huge

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: off. How did you know education was for you? What's [00:03:00] just the beginning of your story?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: You know what's so funny? Um, education was for me, and then it was not for me, and then it was for me again.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I... My first taste of education was with my grandparents. Um, all three of my grandparents that I was around when I was younger were in education in some way. My maternal grandmother was a Black teacher, and then one of the first Black principals on the South Side of Chicago in the '60s and '70s. Um, my grandfather went and got his bachelor's and master's degrees and was teaching at Catholic schools. And then my patern- maternal stepmo- grandmother, she actually left her job when I was born. I was the first granddaughter on that side, so it was amazing, and she dedicated everything to teaching me, reading to me, taking me out, exploring the world.

And so I thought that education was just learning about stuff you didn't know. I didn't really know what a classroom was until I went to pre-K, [00:04:00] and they were like, "Oh, you're so advanced." I was in kindergarten at the age of three. It was

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh, wow. Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: uh, they did not let me move up until I was five.

They're like, "What? She gonna go to fourth- first grade and she's four? That's not gonna happen." So, um, my first teacher, her name was Miss Harrison. I love, love, loved her. She poured everything into me. She would keep me up during nap time 'cause she saw I wasn't going to sleep. This Gemini energy, honey, at 4:00, it... Hang it up. So she would read to me. She would do my hair in braids. To this day, I love braids. I always think

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: when I get them. she would give these little puzzles. She's like, "As long as you don't clash the pieces together, you can play with them." Um, you know, setting those boundaries And when I ended up graduating from kindergarten at that time, I was made the valedictorian, and I was so small.

I have this memory of standing on these... I thought I was supposed to stand behind the podium. A podium is for adults. I didn't know that. They were standing behind a podium. And so I was trying to stand on these little books back there, and they're like, "No, [00:05:00] come to the front." So that's always been my intro to education, and then I started noticing that I was different as a student when I was getting A's easily, effortlessly, and people in my classroom, this is the '90s, bullying was like, "Oh, you'll figure it out.

You'll be okay. Toughen up. Thick skin."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: And I was like, "Why am I getting bullied for being smart?" They would talk about my name on the principal's honor roll list, 'cause they used to put them on for everybody to see, visitors, family, students. They're like, "Look at her, da, da, da." And I just remember I found this movie called Matilda, and it changed everything, I mean everything for me. And Miss Honey was just the sweetest human,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: to think that when I became a teacher, I channeled her, I channeled my grandparents, I channeled all the things that I had into my classroom. So yeah, that was early. I ended up teaching with my grandmother. I didn't know nothing about child [00:06:00] labor laws.

It's okay. I was 12 when I got my first job. Listen.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: it's fine. They, we-- And you know what's so funny you're saying that because we've had people come on that was, were teaching Sunday school as like 10, 11 year olds. I'm like, that count, that's labor laws, right? That counts. So it's okay. We gonna forgive Grandma

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Hello. Re- listen, she did her best. She did her big moment though

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: um, at the time she was back in the classroom. She was done with principal. She was like, "No, I need the kids. I need to just have this and be able to leave and do all that." So she was teaching summer school, and I was 12 in sixth grade, and she hired me. And by hired, I mean she wrote me a check out of her checkbook every week for $100 at 12

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: That's awesome

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: was rich, okay? Um, and I was helping her teach her summer school class of students who were trying to graduate eighth grade. So for that, for me, I was just, you know, shocked to see that students [00:07:00] who were older than me and bigger than me didn't know how to read, didn't know how to count, and here I was, this little teacher's pet, grandmother is the teacher, helping them get to their next level in life.

And I just remember when they would get something, how excited they got, how proud they got, and me just being patient. Like, "No, you can do it." You know, I'm, I'm just 12. I don't know no better, but, you know, like, "You can do it. You got this. You did it before." Just encouraging them. And there's one big-- like he was, I-- at this point, he's probably 385 being a wrestler somewhere.

He was a big boy. He never said anything. He never cracked a smile. And when they had the summer school graduation, I just remember him getting off the stage. He had tears in his eyes. He hugged my grandmother, and he gave me the biggest bear hug, like my shoulder blades were touching. It was crazy. But he was so grateful.

And though he never showed it during the school, you know, when I got that hug, I was like, I always keep that near and dear to my heart. And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: 20, [00:08:00] more than 20 years ago. so that really lit the fire under me. And so I ended up going to college, this is where the whole I knew I was gonna be a teacher turned into, "Girl, who doing what?

Absolutely not."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Mm-hmm.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I went to school for education, did my gen eds, got into the College of Education at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, and it just seemed like everything kind of started falling apart at that time.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Hmm.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: grandfather, who was a teacher, who got his bachelor's and master's and all the things, called me one day.

I can still picture this, walking across the, uh, quad going to the bus, and he says, "You know, it's not too late for you to change your major. Like it's, there's no money in teaching there. What are you gonna do to support yourself?" And I'm like, "Sir, this conversation could've happened three semesters ago.

Like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: are we, talking about?" Um, so that kind of stuck with me. That was the first time I ever encountered resistance to what I was trying to do with teaching. It was always [00:09:00] smooth sailing, supporting your dreams, until they're like, "Oh no, she's really gonna do this teaching thing. Like, what are we

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: and then I w- I ended up getting further into the program. I was excelling. We were doing practicums where we'd go out and teach for a little bit, observe a little bit. And when we got into our cohort, I wanna say there were maybe 20, 22 students. We were all women, and there were only six Latina girls and three Black girls in the whole cohort, and of course, I was one of the Black girls.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: How many in a cohort?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: yeah, in the cohort

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: How many

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Um, tw- I think it was like 20, 22 students,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Okay

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: were, uh, I think we might have had one or two Asian girls. I can't remember. I specifically remember the Latino girls because they were encouraging us, we were encouraging them. It was like us against the world. Um, and then it was the white students.

And as we were getting into our junior year, we got this professor who was the professor, Dr. Daniel Walsh, I will never forget him. [00:10:00] And, um, he would always give us this five minutes at the beginning of class just to vent. Say what you wanna say, say who you wanna say it to, but after five minutes, that's it.

I still use that in all areas of my life to this day 'cause it was highly effective. You know, you just, you get it out, but you're not harping on it, and you get to just say it, put it out there, and be done. And so as we were edging closer to getting further into the classroom for half days and then full days, he started doing I guess he liked to call, um, crash courses in cultural responsiveness at the time.

This was 2010, 2011. And it's this all white man, these white women, these three Black girls, these six Latina girls, and I think a couple of Asian girls, and he's telling us, "You know, when you go in a classroom, you look for this in a student, you look for that," and he's going by demographics. Black. Black. I mean, I'm two parents, four grandparents, eight great-grandparents Black.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: that, yes[00:11:00]

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: nothing about no other culture, how their students do at this time. You know, I just knew Black girl,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Your own culture, yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: So if he's telling us the truth about these other ones, okay. If he's not, okay.

I don't know. No one's objecting, no one's saying anything. And then he got to Black people, and he said, "When you go into a classroom and you are with, um, if it's the majority Black students or you have Black students and you're trying to speak to them, you're, you know, you're, you might be chastising them or giving them directions, it's common culture...

It's common knowledge in their culture that these students will look down or look away when an adult is speaking to them." I immediately, curiosity, and I was like, "I'm sorry, but that's not true." You could've heard a pin drop because everyone knows Dr. Walsh is... He's been here. He's the, like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: education. You know, like, what he says is Bible. And I'm like "Sir, [00:12:00] not accurate." And so everybody looked, nobody's saying anything. Mind you, I'm not the only Black girl in here, and this was not the first demographic that he's gone over. So I was like, "That's not true," you know. Um, and I told him, I said, "I don't want people to go into a classroom thinking that they're being disrespected when a Black child is looking at them."

Again, we've had these five-minute discourse where they're saying this and they're saying that, and the Black kid gets brought up, and it's the problem, and it's this and that. And so he goes on to say how he's got his PhD and he's lived on the West Side of Chicago. He's done research and this. I said, "And with all due respect, I'm Black."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Period.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: that. I was

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Period

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: this 19-year-old girl. I'm like, "I'm Black, sir. I don't know what these other people, you know, have said, but that's not true." I said, "I've grown up on the South Side of Chicago, and the one thing you've always heard is someone say, 'Look at me when I'm talking to you.'"

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Full stop. [00:13:00] Like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: a student who's looking at them because they mama said, "Look at me when I'm talking to you," I don't wanna hear them at 5:00 in this class saying, "And little Johnny was so disrespectful. He stared at me," and this and this.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: know, he looked at me, he said, "Well, you're wrong, but..."

And kept talking. So didn't push the issue because I said what I was there to say. And then I look over and the Black girls are like nodding. I was like, "Don't nod now. You were gonna let

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: It's too late.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: go

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: So, um, with that class, got our practicums the next week, and were, um, stipulations around things like where you could be placed.

You had to do rural, city, all these different things, and you could be placed within a 30-mile radius. guess he was not a fan of what I did because when I got my practicum assignment, I was assigned to Fisher, Illinois, which was 28 miles away.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh, wow

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: He didn't know, like he didn't know

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh, wow

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: And you know, this is [00:14:00] Illinois. It's rural. There are no buses that are gonna take you, and you have to be here when school

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: be on time for class. So I took that as, oh, so speaking up kind of got me with a target on my back. I said, you know what? I called my grandmother. I was frustrated, and she said, "Do your best."

Like she didn't go in. She didn't indulge me being frustrated. She's like, your best." She's

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Just show up. Keep showing up. Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: gonna make sure you got gas. Do your best." never forget, her name was Roxanne Nuss. I still have a, um, on the last day, one of the students gave me this little angel figurine. I wrote his name.

I wrote Fisher Elementary, 2010, 2011. I wrote that on there, and she was amazing. It's this little school that taught me so much and, um, I just, I thrived in that. I got to see for the first time, 'cause I'm coming from the South Side of Chicago, CPS, first through 12th grade. We sharing books. The books are 10 years old.

We gotta make our own, um, book [00:15:00] covers, you know, all this.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Mm-hmm

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: students have one-to-one computers in a computer lab, and they have a different space for a gym, an auditorium, and a lunchroom. I'd never experienced that before. So I'm looking at this through the lens of someone who's about to be a teacher, but I'm the student.

I was like, I'm trying to be professional, but I'm like, "This is nice,"

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah. It's--

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: ex- Of course

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: that you're telling this story because I'm from Detroit, like you said, K-12, preschool 12, Head Start 12, Detroit Public Schools, and I did my student teaching in, um... It's not a rural community necessarily, but it's

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: 嗯

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: pretty far out from, from the city, and to see the difference like you're talking about.

And even before I did my student teaching, I did some practicum hours in Ann Arbor, which is where the University of Michigan is, and there was a s- a... Yeah. Oh yeah, that's right. That's right. You

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: We

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: c- we, we cousins. So, and I [00:16:00] remember in that practicum, I was in like a kindergarten classroom and they had, they were raising chickens.

And then one of the kids specials or electives in like kindergarten, first grade was swimming. The school had a swimming pool and it was an elementary school.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: "A, a pool?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I will never forget that. I was just-- I didn't see the pool, but they were like, "Okay, everybody get ready for swimming." And the kids were learning how to swim.

They were raising chicks. It was a whole thing. And to see the difference that fim- 50 miles, an hour and a half or whatever drive can make in,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: literally

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: in the lives of children is just shocks me. To this day, I've never seen a school, public, it was a public school, with a swimming pool. Yeah, K-5 with a swimming pool.

Amazed me.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: was kind of the same thing. It was-- This one was a rural school. I mean,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: school was just in the middle of a field. I swear their parents were riding the tractors on the [00:17:00] lawn

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Probably, yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: like you said, an hour and a half away. I'm in Chicago, from Chicago, and this is Fisher. It's I-57 straight down, and it's a public school?

I was like, "What is

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I thrived in that school, and I think Ms. Nussle... Again, this is an all-white school. The kids loved me. The faculty loved me. They would invite me 'cause I used sit in the classroom. I was like, "Can I go in the teachers' lounge?" You know, they'd be

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: in." And she would have me sit down and look over her lesson plans.

Sometimes she would leave them, um, kind of skeleton to have me fill in things. She's like, "What do you think you can do with 15 minutes? Well, you've seen so-and-so. How do you think they would react?" Like, she was challenging me while I'm doing lesson plans with her. And I would stay. We only had to stay for the morning.

I would stay the full day. I would stay. I would go every day. I got more because they had to sign and everything. And, um, I, I think we had to do 30 or 50 hours in the semester. I did the most in the class by far. And it was to the point that when I turned [00:18:00] my sheet in, I will never forget this. It was an Asian TA.

I turned my sheet in. I had to get an extra sheet. Ms. Nuss signed it, everything. That lady told me she was going to fail me because she thought I plagiarized the signatures on my form I didn't panic 'cause I knew that I went. You know, it's like I knew I have pictures, I have all this. But when she said that to me, she's like, "There's...

basically, there's no way that you did this. There's no way that you did this." So what I did was, um, I asked her, I said, "Can you do me a favor? Can you call this number," which was my cell phone number, "tomorrow at 10:00 AM, 11:00 AM," whatever the case may be. She said, "Okay." She's looking. I was going back to the school.

So what I did, I told Ms. Nuss the situation. She was so... I mean, red. She's like, "How dare they?" She's up in arms and everything, which I appreciate.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: "Oh, no." So I told her she's gonna call, and I put her on speaker. I told her, you know, "Hi, I'm at this school," da da da. And she's asking. I said, um, "Ms.

Nuss, [00:19:00] can you please, you know, let them know?" She said, "I signed all of these. She's been here..." A- at that moment the, um, speaker comes on, so they know I'm in the school. Uh,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: PA system came on. She's like, "She's an excellent teacher. We're throwing her a, a good, a going away party," which was supposed to be a surprise, but she was trying to say, like, she's been this impactful that we're gonna do this for

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: to me, Daniel Wash was also in on that meeting because apparently they didn't think that I was going to be successful in saying that I did all this. I aced the class, I did all this, and I still got a B. They refused to give me an A. I did not earn it. I was like, at this point, that semester exhausted me so much, I started second guessing.

I'm like, I got my grandfather saying, you know, "Is it worth it?"

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: it just got so crazy. I'm like, I didn't even have the energy to fight the decision, take it to the dean. so I kinda started losing my gusto. And then I had a situation happen on campus where I [00:20:00] just got so devastated and just so decimated that I stopped going to class.

I started going to the therapy center, and they, um, medically withdrew me for that semester. I was about to be a second term senior at this point because the following semester was my first semester, or the previous semester was my first term senior. But what I did not know at the time, because I never had this issue, was that you cannot have two consecutive unsuccessful semesters in college. The first one I was put on what's called academic probation even though I was withdrawn. But then you get academic expulsion, which you have to sit out for like two semesters or something like that. I didn't know that. So in my mind, I'm trying to hang in there, I'm trying to do my best, but I wasn't doing great. Those midterm grades came out. I got that letter like, "Yeah, you've been from the university." Like second term senior, mind you. Graduation was in May. This happened right before spring break in March. I was like, "I [00:21:00] know you're lying." Um- So I just, I felt like the world was just caving in on me. I didn't know what was going on. So then I had to go explain this 'cause everybody's getting ready for graduation, right?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: my parents, to my grandparents, um, and I tried to take people one-on-one. My grandfather like blew up and it was just all this, and I was not in the space to handle that. So I literally left him at the coffee shop and I walked, I think a mile, a mile and a half crying. I called my dad, I told him what happened. He came and picked me up. We rode in silence. And from that, um, time, that was in 2012, I was back at home, which was not good 'cause my mother's like, "Oh, if you're not gonna be in school, you have to work or you can't stay here." The typical Black mom response.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Mm-hmm.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I'm depressed.

I'm like dealing with everything that happened at school. I'm dealing with the fact that I got kicked out of school, and school was my thing. Like my... If I had a thing at that time, it was school.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: this, then it's like, well, I'm gonna be homeless. Like what's happening? [00:22:00] So I ended up getting a job at a daycare for a semester, and that annual salary was $29,000.

I don't know what I was thinking. I It was horrible. It was in the ghetto. The ratios, the staff-to-child ratio was terrible. It was just a mess. um, I loved the babies. I was like, "Okay, you know, I'm kinda getting myself back, but this is not... I don't see myself doing this." And one day I got a call from my grandmother, and she told me, you know, like she's just talking, you know, "How's things going?" And she just slides in there. She's like, know, it would be a shame for you to give up, and you're so close." She said, "You have the credits to get a degree." She said, "I don't care what the degree is in. It could be in basket weaving, but I would love to see my first grandchild be the first one to graduate from college." And when she said that, I was like... 'Cause everybody had been yelling at me, pressuring me,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Sure

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I'm just like, at this point, I don't hear y'all. I'm tuning y'all out. I'm going deeper into depression. When she [00:23:00] said that conversation, just slid that in there, and then basically changed it back to, "So when are we getting pizza?"

kinda thing,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: was like, "She might be onto something." So I went, I reapplied to Chicago State, and I went from a second term senior to a first term junior 'cause I had to establish residency there.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Okay

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: so devastating. Um, but I got to have Black woman professors, which it was amazing. That was such the breath of fresh air that I needed.

Um, and when it got to the part where we did our student teaching, I was ready. I, I did the classes. I was in class Friday night, Saturday morning, working seven days a week. It was no days off between assignments and classes. I was like, "I'm gonna finish this degree."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: that time we started student teaching, and I really got to be the teacher.

I was back on the South Side, back in CPS as a student teacher, and I was like, "There's no way they're treating teachers like this." This is

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: [00:24:00] the teachers... I said, "You know what? Don't worry about it. I'm not gonna finish this part. I'm not gonna get my Type 03," 'cause I was going for early childhood. And in Illinois, you cannot teach if you don't have your certification, period.

There's no discussion. There's no way around it.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yes

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: And I was so dedicated that I was not going to teach. I'm just gonna get this degree, and we gonna figure it out from there, that I didn't take the test and I did not get my Type 03. So I graduated with my Bachelor's of Science in Early Childhood. Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Okay, so you, you, you have... This is a whole mouthful. And folks, people in the audience, we haven't even gotten to the first, the first year of the teaching yet. We're just talking about the experience.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: crazy.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: and I appreciate, I appreciate you sharing this part of the story because I'm sure when I ask people, like, what their journey into education was, they've also had these type of experiences in college, but they're...

Sometimes people just don't remember it, or they think, "Well, I'm just gonna get to the part about teaching." And this so much is a part [00:25:00] of it because an ed- you're an educ- you're a student before you become an educator,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Period

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: And like you talk about this Dr. Wash and all the people who were trying to, like, push against you and having mental health challenges in school.

That's all a part of the schooling. Seeing the inequities, fighting for yourself, c- you know, expulsion, coming back into school, and family and community is all a part of it. And so that's really important to think about because or, and to, to notice and to pause and note because, um, there's an assumption, I think, sometimes that people go to college for the four years and they graduate, and then it becomes challenging,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: right?

Or then they experience burnout or racial battle fatigue or compassion fatigue or... But no, life is lifing before you finish college. Yeah, and so we're not coming into education, we're not coming into our first classroom or our first space clean slate. We're bringing a lot of that with us. Whether we've healed it or not, it's still a [00:26:00] part of our lived experience.

And so I wanted to note that for the audience, that this is a part of the journey too of an exit interview is what was happening even before you started teaching that p- brought those seeds into what you believe education is and is not. It's about those c- those practicum hours. It's about your student teaching.

It's about your professors in college. Like all that counts as a part of why we don't have as many Black educators in schools as we do. It's not just as soon as they start teaching. So I wanted to say that part. And I also wanted to say it's really interesting, um, like the dynamics between your grandfather and your mom, I mean, your, uh, grandmother, and like all the ways that people were supporting you and then not supporting and things like that because...

And it's like if you're gonna be in my house, you're gonna figure out how to pay the bills and then go to school but go and do all the things. So it's a, it's a lot for folks to figure out, especially if you're 19, 20, 21, [00:27:00] 22. Um, it's not easy. And so again, I just wanted to point those pieces out. But you said, "Okay, this ain't working for me.

I'm seeing the inequity.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: The garage

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: They treating teachers like crap." And, and, and this is-- I wanna point one more thing out

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yeah

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: When I was teaching at CU Denver, I was a adjunct while I was in my doc program, we had Black students, Black women in particular, who were experiencing racism and seeing inequities in their student teaching.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: And

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Oh, sh-

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: yeah. And I don't think, again, this is going back to this idea of there's no clean slate. We don't start in our first year and it's like it starts from there. When you're experiencing inequities in your student teaching and you're noticing those things, I think that all-- it starts the clock for a lot of us right there.

Even if it's not, yeah, even if it's not f- you know, you're a freshman in your college. When you get in that school and that student [00:28:00] teaching and you start to see, oh, we're back to sharing books again when the other place had this, then that clock's

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: we're still sharing

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: tw- Yeah. That's exactly right. So that clock starts to s- to start ticking right away.

So I just wanted to interrupt you and say that. So okay, you decided, you finished but you weren't gonna get your certificate, so then what?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Um, it's so funny because after I graduated, my grandmother got to see me graduate, and I'm so proud of that to this day because I was the only one she got to see graduate of her four grandchildren. We all graduated college, but by the time my brother, who was next, graduated, she was very, very ill and she couldn't travel.

So in my heart, I'm just grateful that that little seed she planted, I was able to do that for her.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I graduated, whole bachelor's in education, and I was a cashier. I was like, "Baby, listen, not doing this." I was dedicated to not going to the classroom.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: life got crazy. I was 24 at this time, and I'm just like, "I need to get out of [00:29:00] Chicago.

I need to spread my wings." But every time I went to travel, I love traveling, I never felt a place where it's like, "I wanna be here more than a week. I'm actually ready to go back home." But I went to Charlotte with my cousin. He lived there at the time. He still lives there. But I got to visit him, and it just felt like, "You need to be here. You need to be here." So I moved to Charlotte August of 2015, I got a job as a cashier again. I was working part-time at a school as a tutor, which was really cool, getting to work with the kids and pull out groups and, you know, giving them little objectives and doing the things. Still getting my teaching practice in, but not being responsible for lesson plans and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Sure

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: else that teachers are responsible for. And then, um, the principal just loved me because every time she would ask, "Oh, can someone do this?" I'd say, "Oh, I'll do it," 'cause, you know, I wanna try. That curiosity went. Like, "I wanna try this. Sure. I have the degree," you know? Um, but God is so funny. [00:30:00] So funny. Um, a teacher was retiring at the end of that school year, and the assistant principal, all of which were Black women, might I point out, which was amazing, um, she came to me and she's like, "I know you have your bachelor's degree.

It's in education, and I'm not sure if you know this, but North Carolina is one of two states..." 'Cause of course God did this to me. 50 states, and he put me in one of two

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: called lateral entry at the time, where if you have a bachelor's degree, especially in education, you can work as a teacher as long as you are taking the track to take your certification test within two years.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Okay

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: this classroom," like I had said, "You're gonna be in the classroom."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: up taking the position, and that was my first year teaching in August 2016.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Let me pause you for a second. So you had already decided, "I'm just tutoring, I'm just supporting in this way."

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: That's it.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: What, after that conversation, what changed your mind? Did, what conversation did you have with yourself, with your family, with [00:31:00] community? What, what made you say like, "Okay, I'll try it," versus, "No, I'm gonna continue to tutor"?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I think even at that time, I recognized that this was something God did because it's like of all the places I could have been, one of two states

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: states that I can be in the classroom, and then also wanting to experience a full-time job, you know, benefits. I'm a big girl. I want my own place, you know,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: of it. And I was like, "Well, I did go to school to teach, you know, let's give it a try." So, um, my first-- even though I am Chicago born and raised, my first teaching position was in Charlotte-Mecklenburg public schools.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Okay

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: it was even crazier because, you know the 10-day thing where if you have, you have to check in.

I don't know if all states do this, but in North Carolina, they have the 10-day rule where you have to start clearing your roster if students haven't shown up, if they've shown up less than three days, they have to culminate. So at that school, I wanna say we had [00:32:00] three. I was teaching third grade at the time. We had three third grade classes. But because we didn't meet, and I think at the time the ratio was like 24 third graders to one teacher or something of that nature. We didn't have enough students in the whole third grade to justify having three teachers. And of course, last hired, first fired.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yes

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: state, so they, um- I was let go. um, but because I was a teacher, even though it's a right-to-work state, I still had some protections. Like the school year started, I was ready to teach. So what they do is they put you in this pool, and in the pool you, um, get picked up, you can get picked up by other schools. Well, it just so happened that I went to the CMS training over the summer, made great connections, and one of the first-year teachers was like, "Oh my God, I know her.

She's amazing." And because a first-year teacher said I'm amazing in her first year of teaching, like three weeks in, they gave me the interview and they're like, "Oh, we love you. Let's come train with our class." [00:33:00] Their third grade teacher was moving to Florida,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Okay

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: And honey, they gave me bebe's kids, the churn and all them.

It was that class. It was

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: stars, and then it was the class of make a shake, do your best, you... Good luck.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Um, and I got that class and I taught, um, I taught... What did I teach at that time? Math and social studies. And it was a lot of fun. It was very hard. Very hard because the kids were dejected. Their

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Hmm.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: only 4% of all the students I taught, which were 50 between the classes that switched, um, only 4% were considered proficient on third grade levels their

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh, wow

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: testing, all the things. I'm new. I just came from a classroom. I gotta set up a new classroom in one day, which was Columbus Day, get them ready for this.

I had, you know, to introduce myself, all the things. It was psychotic. I hit the ground running. I love those kids. [00:34:00] They taught me so much about discipline, about listening, about engagement, about just understanding and still having those high expectations. Like, I understand you don't have a bed at home. We literally, the five teachers that taught fifth grade, third grade at that school, put together our money out of our pocket.

In CMS, we made like $48,000 a year. It was crazy. Should be criminal. Um, and we bought groceries for one of my student's families 'cause they didn't have lights, they didn't have food, anything. Um, so I was up against that. And those kids took to me. I took to them. at the end of that year, that crazy first year, I got those kids up to 69% proficient on their EOGs 'cause I made them believe in theirself.

Like, I don't care, you're gonna do it.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I don't care

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: and, and your energy, I know people can hear it in the podcast episode, your energy is probably really infectious, right? And they're like, "Oh, okay, we can do..." I, I believe in myself because you, the way, the [00:35:00] energy that you're putting out to your classroom and to the space is giving them hope in themselves, and I love that.

I love that.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Oh, thank you. Yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: always just believed like, you know, celebrate the small victories.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Sure

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: my students used to sleep. Oh my God, I don't know if we can say students' names on here, but woo, I'm gonna call him Jay Savion. He knows who he is if he ever hears this. He had oppositional defiance disorder.

He was diagnosed.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: I had one of those. I had one of those. I will never forget his name. I had a couple of those actually

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: He would wait until it was the worst possible time to say, "Showtime!" I mean, the worst po- I was getting observed, my formal interview. He threw his book against the bla- the whiteboard and walked out, and I'm like, "So do I go after the kid? Do... Like, what do I, what do I do at this point?

I don't know." Um, so the, the principal, thank God, was like, "We have a runner. We have a runner." 'Cause I'm like, trying to keep it together." This ki- it was a mess. [00:36:00] He used to sleep through, um, standardized tests, like the Checkpoint tests. Don't

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: testing. But he used to sleep through them.

He would slam his laptop shut. One of those. But I used to come, I used to talk to him. I said, "Well, you know if you don't do it now, you have to do it later, but it's gonna get done. Y- and you're gonna do it, 'cause I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah. Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: him every time. If he was sitting quietly, when I would do my, um, spiel, I would say, "And Jay Savion is sitting quietly." I mean, he couldn't be around the kids. He would hit them, pinch them, punch them, kick them. It was,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Mm-hmm. Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: um... And he was one in a cast of characters. So by the time our EOGs rolled around, he all by himself went to his desk, got his Chromebook, got his scratch paper, took the test, and then went to sleep. I was so proud of him.

I was like, "What is his favorite snack?" I'm j- I just went on my lunch break. I went and bought his favorite snack and just put it in his desk. I didn't say nothing about it. He got to his desk, he said, "Great job. I'm so proud of you," and I kept it moving. [00:37:00] And, um, I'm a big hugger. People say, "Don't touch the kids," this, that, and the third.

These babies need love. They need love. They

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: period, period. And so, um, I used to hug my kids all the time, all the time. They knew, "I'm gonna give you a hug. You go, you gonna hit this mouth, but you gonna get this love, too." And when I told him that he passed that EOG, he cried, his mom cried. It-- I mean, we was just in there crying.

It was a mess. And to be able to give my students, like, this hope, like, "This was your first ever test, and you rocked it. Like, you did that. I didn't pick up the pencil. I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Just reminding them that you've done this, that was, that was probably the best thing that I could have hoped for, um, at that school.

And as much grief as they gave me, I was sad to see them babies go. That was my first time being that the experience, like, "They're not coming to me next year. Like, what do you mean?" I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I was like, "Where are my kids?" Like, "Oh, you got new ones." "No, I want my old [00:38:00] ones. I want them back."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yes, that's so real. That starting over again is real hard. It's challenging

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: It's so hard. That was the roughest part, I think, because that's the reality. Where you plant these seeds, you don't know what these seeds are gonna do. Are they gonna grow? Are they gonna wither? Are they gonna care? Are they gonna keep, you know, trying? Is someone gonna come and stomp out all the work you've done? You know- And I often think people forget because I'm elementary, early childhood and elementary, that little-- they're still little people. They're eight, they're

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh, 100%

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: the time from my, from myself, 'cause I was like, "They will push your buttons. Don't get it confused. They gonna tiptoe, they gonna run, they gonna tap dance on your last nerve, the reserve one in the back." used to have to say out of my mouth, "You can't make me mad. You're nine." I said that to them, and I said it to myself to be like, "They're nine." Like, you have insurance riding on this girl. Like, get, tighten

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, for real

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: So, you know, just like putting up, you can't make me mad. [00:39:00] You can't irritate me.

You, you can't get me out of character. You're nine, you're eight, you're 10. Like, that was something that I used to tell myself. Um, and that next year, I was the teacher that they asked to do self-contained because they had some students who were like, "We can't switch." And our five third grade class ratio was insane with math.

They're like, "Oh, we need smaller reading classes." So the math classes were big. Students didn't

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Okay. Yes

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: it was crazy. So they did, they ended up doing four classes that switched, and then I was the self-contained class. That class was magical. I think just because we were together all day, I got to learn them in a certain way.

I only had 18 kids. Oh, that was just a very special class to me. And when I told them at the end of that year that I was leaving because, um, one of the veteran teachers had come to our school. She had taught abroad, and there was a curiosity. And I was like, "You can move around the [00:40:00] world and teach? Like, they'll pay?"

She's like, "Girl, they will do this and that and this and that." Sign me up for whatever it is that you're doing. I wanna do that too. So my first time applying, I didn't get it. The second time, I got hired to teach in Zhengzhou, China, and I told my students before I told anybody else. My parents notwithstanding, but I told them.

They kept my secret. Um- And when my other kids found out, 'cause I also brought them in at a later time to tell them before the school knew, they were devastated. "You're leaving? You can't leave

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Um, and they started acting out. I had to go to the principal's office behind one of my students who is now in fourth grade because his teacher, they butted heads.

It was a terrible mix. But my students knew I would, I would stand up for them. So I went to talk to her. It went very left. She stepped on my foot. It was a mess in front of the kids. So my students, I told them, I'm still-- I'm, these not even my students anymore, but he was acting out, so now I'm here. them, "So and so, go to the office.

I [00:41:00] need this." This is her classroom, but I'm telling my former students what to do. So they're doing it, and she's irate about that. So the principal comes, the assistant principal comes, security comes, and I'm staying calm 'cause my kids are, like, wide-eyed, and if I do the wrong thing, chaos is gonna ensue. ended up in the principal's office.

HR got involved. I was

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh, no

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: ' cause of course I wasn't. I wasn't me. She was the one irate. And then she said the kids were lying because it was me and I was the teacher, and it was crazy.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: of that school year, she gave me a hug and wished me luck. So do with that what you will. But

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: me, hold, let me pause you. Hold on, let me pause. You going a mile a minute, I'm trying to catch up. So

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I was like, 'cause... I'm sorry.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: yo, you're fine, you're fine. 'Cause And this is a really fascinating story. I'm getting-- We're starting to get more people who are coming on who are talking about international teaching, and so I'm glad that you're sharing this story.

I'm glad that you're... You know, we talked about, you talked about this when I met you in LA, so this is really [00:42:00] good. Um, yeah, and, and, and that part about students do become attached to you, right? Um,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yes

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: they, they want you to... Even if they graduate from a school, they want you to be there when they get back too.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Absolutely.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: you, you're supposed to always be there. They can move on, but you have to always be there, and that's a real thing. Um,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: real

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: let me ask the question. So this, the veteran teacher comes in, talks, you know, you have a conversation about teaching overseas. You decide to apply. Did you apply specifically for any coun- like any country or you had specific ones?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Um,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: my next question is like,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: yes

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: was, what was the family conversation like as well?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Um, well, my first time student teaching or applying to Teach Abroad, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't go through the right program. It was free. And I will tell you, if you ever think about applying to teach internationally, you literally get what you pay for. If you go [00:43:00] through a free agency, gonna be a free experience.

But I ended up going through one that had to be paid on my second go-around, and that made a world of difference. But when I went through the free one, I was just throwing spaghetti to the wall and see what stuck. So if they said, "Oh, we have an opening in the Middle East," I was applying to the Middle East. I did my research and I was like, the Middle East is not for a Black woman such as myself. I had cut all my hair off, so I was completely bald. I have a tattoo of the cross 'cause my Lord and Savior. This is a Muslim place in the

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: women are not supposed to speak up. I talk back. It, it just wasn't a

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah. Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I went to the interview and, um, it was going really well, but the lady saw my cross and she said, "Oh, um, you're a Christian?" I said, "Yes." She said, "Well, we only teach Islam and Muslim culture here." She said, "Would you consider covering it up?" I said, "No. The same way you respect your creator, I respect mine."

So of course, that didn't work. But that helped me realize, okay, I [00:44:00] have to be way more intentional than curious right now. This is my life. It was kind of a big girl moment. when I did the second time, and I went and I paid and I went through job fairs and all of these things, it allowed me to kind of select where I wanted to go.

And I was still really open, but now I'm thinking of climate and culture and food, and do they like Black people, and are, is there a Black community here? You know, even though I don't necessarily have to see Black people all the time, which I would love to 'cause Black power, um I wanted to say, like, if I'm leaving, uh, going to a new part of the world, I don't wanna end up the south side of Chicago in China.

You know what I mean? Like, I wanna experience China or wherever I ended up. So I ended up choosing China after the interviews because of the questions they were asking me and the questions that they were answering as far as, um, you know, what is your expat community like? Is there anything that will help me get acclimated to living here? [00:45:00] Do... You know, like all these questions that you don't think about until you think about it. Because once the questions start coming, I say write them down 'cause there's no such thing as a dumb question when you're about to move your life into

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, for real

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: So, um, you know, can I bring my dog?

And gee, these, all these things. I ended up choosing China because I was like, "Well, why not? Why not?" And as far as my family, they were shocked 'cause they're like, "Girl, China?" And then all, all the stereotypes, don't eat the rats and all. It was just, what, how did we get here? It was crazy. But they also know me and they're like, "Well, if anybody's gonna move, it's gonna be her."

I had already moved to Charlotte. I was successful.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yes

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: he's one of those parents who I just thank God for every day because one where it's like, "Do it. It's your life. Home is always here." But on

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: go. Don't go. Don't go.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Of course, yes

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Um, but he supports everything.

He's like, "Go ask the questions," trying to be cool, but I'm like, "Dad, I know you're [00:46:00] worried." He's like, "I don't worry." "You're worried. It's okay. It's okay." But he just has faith, like he knows the material he put out here in the world and he knows like rooting for her 'cause she's gonna make it. So it was kind of shocked because no one knew I'd applied, no one. 'Cause I had already applied the first time and I told a few people and it didn't work out, so I'm like, you know, I'ma just keep this to myself.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, sure

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I did it in grand fashion. I flew back home to Chicago, everybody for a brunch. I was like, "Just come." People were like, "Are you married?

Are you pregnant?" I didn't know what I was dressing for, so I wore this. It was so funny. And I made the announcement. Everybody was like

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: What? It, it was just collective confusion, but excitement. Um, and it was great. And I told my students, and they... On that last day, I got so many flowers. Their parents came. I got stuffed animals. I got things about China. I got letters that I still have. I have a whole keepsake box of things from my students.

I'm that teacher. I [00:47:00] love it. Um, and they basically just sent me off in style. They asked before I left, um, Charlotte, could I have one more gathering of the students, and I did. Any of my students who wanted to come, my current class or my previous class, and we went to Sky Zone. Don't take kids to Sky Zone if you're not ready to jump, 'cause honey, they was

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh yeah,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: the place.

They wanted me,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: begging, yes

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: they wanted me to do everything they doing. Baby, I'm older than you. Let's

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: time. Um, and so yeah, I moved to China, and it's a fun fact, I did not have an August 5th, 2019. I didn't have it. I, or August 6th. I went from August 5th in Chicago to August 7th in Shanghai. Yep,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Ah. Yeah, I guess that makes sense

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yep, I did not have an August 5th, 2019. I was like, "They land, we landing." They're like, "Happy whatever day." I was like, "No, what do you mean?" It's...

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, you missed a whole day

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: 14 hours ahead. Yep, 14 hours.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: So when I [00:48:00] met you, you, you were coming back from Brazil. Is that correct?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yes.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Oh yeah, honey, I move around.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: so I, yeah, I wanna know, tell us about your experience in China, but then I also w- like how did we get to Brazil?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Oh my goodness. Okay, so China, if, you can handle like just a world of culture shock, I would say China is an amazing place to teach. I loved China. Caveat, I was there during the 2019, 2020 school year, so you know how that went. It was COVID. It was great.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, that's cr- that's wild

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: for Chinese New Year, and I went, surprised my students back home.

They didn't know I was... Or back in Charlotte. They were so excited to see me. I got a picture with all my students. I keep it on my phone to this day. Um, went home to Chicago, was going on a girls trip to Thailand to go back to China. As we're in Thailand, everybody's phones are going off the night before we leave. [00:49:00] China has shut its borders, and we're like, "What?" It's February 2nd, 2020. I'm supposed to get on a plane in like 13 hours to go back to China. Now there's no China. I'm back on the other side of the world. does one do? Well, one has to stay on the phone for seven hours. By the time we got through to customer service, they tired, we tired.

There's no money for refunds. We'll get it within 60 to 90 days, but now I have to plan a last second trip back to Chicago. That was fun. So I was home for two months, and then at-- or for a month, and then as soon as the borders opened back to China, one flight a week in, went back to China. Don't ask. I don't know what I was thinking.

I couldn't tell you. got cursed out six ways from Sunday. "The world is shutting down and you're going back." I'm going. I'm going. we were on two-week isolation. Like isolation. We didn't have

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: for 14 days. They would knock [00:50:00] on our door, leave our meals on this desk they put out there. Twice a day, they would come in full hazmat suits to take our temperatures, make sure we didn't have the virus. unfortunately, I lost people back home d- due to COVID while I was there. Um, but overall, I enjoyed the solitude. The people on the other side of the walls for me were not having a good time, and I think that's when I kinda learned like, wow, I love my own company. People don't know how to be by themselves. I learned that for the first time during COVID. And what people don't know is that we in China actually went back to school in person.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Mm.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: in May of 2020. So we were doing the remote thing. We, um... I still have my freedom papers for when we got cleared by the government.

We had to get cleared by the government to be back in the streets of China. I still have those 'cause I can't believe

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Freedom Papers is crazy.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: To say Freedom Papers is cr- yeah, that's a w-

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: that statement is just wild

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: if you got caught without [00:51:00] them, they would put you in jail 'cause they didn't know if you were free and cleared by a doctor to be out and about.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Sure

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: in jail. It was crazy. Um, so actual freedom papers in 2020, my God. Um, but when we went back, there was no process for us going back. We were supposed to be staggered. We were not. Um, this is China, so we had 90 students per class, per grade, and there were two of every grade at our school, and then one of every grade at our sister school where the other half of our staff was. So we brought everybody back. We could not run the air. It's in China. It's scorching

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: So hot

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: we had the, the windows open, but they're doing construction, so it's dust blowing in. People are getting sick. No one's saying anything. It was chaos to the utmost degree. And so what I decided was, "I'm not doing this.

This doesn't seem like a good idea." And so I said, you know, "I wanna leave." And mind you, my contract was [00:52:00] only a year. It was up in June. But they told me that because parents-- One thing about China, they're very into it or, um, like very big on saving face and, like, how things look. So they're like, "Well, since the parents already saw you, you're back, and you leave, they're gonna wonder what happened.

So if you leave now, we're not paying this. We are gonna fine you the $2,000." I only had a month left on my contract. " We're gonna do all this." So what I did, being a Black girl, street smart girl I am, I went and I listed everything that they had did outside of protocol. I put all of the leaders in the WeChat message, and I sent it. And the next message I got was two hours later after everyone had their chaos prevention meeting and said, "What time do you need someone to take you to the airport? Do you need support in purchasing a ticket?" Right. Yeah. Yes. So May 17th, 2020, I came back to the States. I got hired and back in CP- well, NCPS.

[00:53:00] My first time teaching back home was remote. And, um, going from the way that they revere teachers in China, I mean, literally worship us, and the fact that I had moved and left my family to teach their children,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: was just so beautiful to see teachers actually being respected, which is

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: China is an amazing place to teach.

A teacher is up there with a doctor and a lawyer, and they say, "Well, you taught me how to be this, so you're higher than me." The doctors and lawyers say that.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: And you hear people say that all the time online, like other countries respect teachers. Um, yeah. And that's why I believe that. I believe that

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: it's amazing. So to come back from that, I'm like here, after I've been here, and then I come back to CPS, and mayor is trying to bully us into going back to school after a Christmas break where everybody's been traveling with no protocols. You're not answering any of the union questions, and the town halls you're not showing up to, you're not responding. I said, "You know what?" [00:54:00] They... And they, it got to a point where they said, "Well, if you don't go back in person, you have to go on leave." And I went on leave. But so many teachers in CPS went on leave that they tried to up it again. Mind you, this is the middle of the school year, so, well, the second half of the school year. And so they upped it again. They said, "Well, if you don't, um, go back by this date, you have to resign." So now I'm like, "What do I do?" I resigned. I was like, "I'm not gonna put myself... I lived through COVID in China. I lost people. I saw people die." Like, I'm not going into this school where the vaccine didn't even exist yet.

It's 2020,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: uh, February of 2021. don't have any answers. You don't know how you're gonna space the students. You don't know how, who's coming back. You don't know anything. But you want us to go back in the class. I said, "I'm out. I'm done." So I resigned, and those next three years, uh, I stayed out of the classroom, and it was crazy.

But it was a great experience.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: W- what did, [00:55:00] what did you do for those three years?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I, um, ended up opening what's called Yes Yoga, You're Extremely Special, and I catered to the Black community. I got certified in four different types of yoga, including aerial yoga, so I taught people how to fly. I hosted private events, um, parties, workshops, uh, team building, corporate exec- uh, corporate experiences, and I was also hired to go international with my business host a workshop for yoga.

It was amazing. I had a lot of success with that. It was, it was great. It was a beautiful time because everyone was learning how to live post-COVID, and everyone's stress was... So I'm a Black woman. Only 7.1% of Black, of yoga teachers are Black, man or woman. Um, I'm a former teacher. I've taught around the world, so they're like, "Oh, she's this unicorn," which

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: So it got me a lot of success, and I ended up going through a third party to still be part of [00:56:00] CPS because I gave workshops to Black high and Brown high school students in CPS. So it was great.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, that's amazing. This is a, this is a lot.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I'm telling

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: You have a really fascinating story. Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: But you asked how I got to Brazil. Um, after, that was in 2021. I did my yoga business for three years, and I still do it to this day, it's just in a different font. Um, but I was like, "I wanna give teaching a chance." I literally came across the video I saw of, or I took of my students when I surprised them in China or coming from China to Charlotte. Their excitement and just the way that they remembered all the things I taught them and all this, I was like, "I miss that. I miss my kids. I miss

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I applied to go back to CPS. At this point, it's a toxic relationship 'cause why am I going back to the people who hurt me and scarred me and kicked me out in the first place? But I went back. It was horrible. It was [00:57:00] awful. I went back, um, for the fourth quarter of a school year to replace a teacher who was going on maternity leave. So I was a TAT, a temporary assigned teacher. But the one thing about CPS, we are very big on unions. CTU, out. Like, the whole country is looking at what we do to see how to do their union

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh yeah, for sure

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I... Yes, I love it. Say what you want, but they gonna get it done. And so, um, I was always, as long as I'm a teacher, guaranteed a job. It didn't have to be at that school, but I was guaranteed a job and to keep my salary and all these things. That 10 weeks was so traumatic to my wellbeing, where, I'm doing great with the students.

And 10 weeks, 10 weeks, the last 10 weeks of the school year, so I'm getting students ready for a finalize- for standardized testing at the end of the year. I'm teaching things that their teacher didn't get to. I'm doing all this stuff, but the toxicity of the leadership at that school was so [00:58:00] potent, and it was like, you see this vibrant, exciting, excited, exuberant person who's really doing well, going above and beyond.

I'm making friends as, as colleagues right off the bat. I'm jumping into water that's already established, and they made it so difficult at every turn, just condescending, helicoptering, micromanaging, nitpicking. Everything was a negative. I could have done all this right, but this part was wrong, so I'm only gonna focus on this, and I'm gonna do it in front of everybody. see, one thing about me, you do to me, I'm gonna do to you. I'm a mirror. So you don't like it when it's done to you. Now you're embarrassed. Now you wanna talk to me privately. But one thing my grandmother and, uh, old school teachers have always taught me is CYA, write everything down. If it's not written, it didn't happen.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Say that

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: immediately I write it on paper 'cause I'm old school. Like, I have a notebook right here. I write everything. And then I type it in an email. And one thing about an email, [00:59:00] blind copy is your bestest friend So I would blind copy my personal, I would blind copy my union, I would blind copy someone else that I trusted to say, "Hey, if things go left, I need you to be on this." And everything he would say, everything he would do, every time he would stop me, every- like everything, I documented. And I was also unfortunately, uh, sexually harassed at the school, and I had to report that to the EEOC, ECOC, one of those

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: EEOC, yes

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: And, um, because I did that, now I have a target on my back.

So now I have to file for retaliation all in 10 weeks at the end of the school year. of it happening. And, um, I'm still showing up for my students. I'm still getting used to... The last time I was teaching, it was so much different. I'm doing all of this, and then at the end of the year everything ha- Like when, um, you're getting reassigned, you're gonna go to a different grade, all this. He brings me in his office, hands me this paper, and was like, "I'm sorry, budget cuts." He did not renew me for the next [01:00:00] school year all that. And I was just like, I was hurt because I didn't get to say bye to my kids. Like they were like, "Oh, are you gonna come back next year?" And I told them, "Yes." I didn't know I wasn't coming back. And I didn't find out till the day after. So like in CPS, teachers, um, go two days after the students. So like clean out your classroom, do all this, do all that. And they were like, "Oh, you know you're gonna come back, of course." That next day, "No, you're not coming back." So I was very devastated about that. But I sent them, uh, I sent a video to a coworker who showed it to my students on the first day when they were in sixth grade. And I got

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh, I love that idea. I love that idea

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I don't ever want my kids to think I abandoned them ever. Never. Never. But I did get picked up at another school, which somehow ended up being worse. I don't know how. And I also went from teaching fifth grade to kindergarten. I'm still not okay. And that was two years ago. That was...

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah. Wow

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Um, so that school, it [01:01:00] was just no leadership. The students ran the school. Parents would literally come curse people out in the hallway during educational time. Um, police were always at our school. We had brawls afterwards. We always ended up on the Citizens app. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, but something's happening at the school. I am a polyglot, so I speak four languages, and I'm most fluent in Spanish. And we had a big, um, population of Venezuelans coming in at that time. So they're asking me, who's a teacher, mind you, if I can come translate for these families 'cause our bilingual teacher's only there three days a week, and it was just so chaotic. Um, and I'ma always been an advocate for my students. So if anything was going wrong or if my students expressed a concern, and I had... My students went all the way up to eighth grade 'cause once they found out I was a cool teacher, that I don't, that I'm not gonna play with you, everybody wanted to be in my class

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: So that put another target on my back because why are they not in class?

Weren't they just in the hallway? Weren't you just calling for them [01:02:00] on the speakerphone interrupting all of our teaching and learning? And now that they're here not causing problems, I'm putting them to work. Now it's still a problem? I'm confused.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: out your class. They cussed out the front office and walked out the office. Y'all don't suspend them. You won't call their parents. What else are we supposed to do? I was building relationships. I was the, I was the pariah. It was just terrible. Um, that took such a toll on my mental health. I cried daily. I mean daily. I had to go from-- And I've been in therapy, the next month it'll be 16 years. I had worked my way up from going to therapy twice a week to going once a month. That school setting, I was back twice a month, and I was so just disappointed. I'm like, "I'm going

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: the ways that count." I'm drinking wine. Like I refuse to drink anything stronger. I was like, "I have to stick at wine.

I have to, even though I wanna do more." Um, I wasn't wanting to go out, or if I did go out, I was taking off. I used, in CPS we got 10 sick [01:03:00] days or, uh, yeah, sick days, three from CTU, so a total of 13 sick days. We got five bereavement days, and we got three personal days. I used all of those days before Memorial Day, and by the time my birthday came, I was taking zero days, which means I just took off and I didn't get paid.

It was that

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Sure.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I didn't care.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Wow

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: terrible. Every day we would be like, "Is this, is this real?" And it's in elementary school. It's kindergarten. I'm teaching kindergarten to eighth grade. It was just psychotic the things that would happen, and leadership was nowhere to be found. But again, CYA, I documented everything. And, um, before things got crazy, I had told the principal, "You know, I'm interested in moving abroad again. This is something I wanna experience again. I loved it. So if you get a, um, message, just know this is something I'm, you know, exploring. I would appreciate this." And we were on good [01:04:00] terms at that point, so it was all cool. Of course, no problem. I was the star s- I was always the star teacher. Like I always showed up. I always did what was required. And then it got to the point where I had to pull out the guns and say, "Out of everyone in this meeting, there's only one person in here who knows what's developmentally appropriate for this age group, and I'm pretty sure it's me." to the point where I had to have those conversations. Why are five-year-olds taking tests on a screen, a split screen that looks like yours and mine, where they have to read over here and manipulate

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Oh, wow. Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Why are we doing this? Why are we stacking all of these? And I'm asking the questions, and all you can say is, "Well, we have to.

It's the curriculum that you chose." It's not developmentally appropriate. So what did I do? I did what was best for my students, and I took the wrath for whatever. No, they're not doing this. They did this instead, it's comparable, but I didn't use this platform. I didn't use this and that, and I That's fine.

My [01:05:00] students were successful, so this shows they can do this. I used to have to have those conversations, and every time I had them, I would document them and put them in writing. And it got to the point that my formal observation, I, I had to lobby for another formal observation because the informal observation he gave me unsatisfactory

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Hmm

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Because

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: More retaliation

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: exactly. Oh, this doesn't look..." And so I had to say, "Well, I'm the only one qualified to do this." And he said, "Well, I'm just gonna have to give you another formal observation." Absolutely. I'm teaching 26 five-year-olds by myself, no TA, eight which are non-English speaking at all. So I'm teaching English and Spanish all day,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah. Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: to 3:45.

I used to get my preps canceled day, uh, weekly. I, uh, I'm dealing with parents, I'm dealing with this, I'm dealing with the admin. I'm dealing with the upper kids who are in my classroom, and I'm still thriving for my students, even though [01:06:00] I'm like cringing on the inside,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Sure, yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Um, and I'm just like, it's the end of the year, I don't have anything left to give, but I'm gonna see this through 'cause I know Brazil is waiting for me. And he didn't know that at the time. He didn't know I got the job 'cause I didn't tell. but I just remember he said, "I'm gonna have to do a formal observation." He did that. The window closed that Friday. He did-- To-- You couldn't do any more 'cause it's like considered the end of the year. He did my observation that Thursday. And what I did, ' cause he don't speak, he don't speak Spanish. taught most of my lesson in Spanish, and my kids been this-- with me this whole school, so they know what I'm saying. He trying to get his r- uh, thing out. The kids are speaking. The internet service is terrible. He can't translate what I'm saying.

I pull my small group of non-English speakers. I did my biggest one. And I, I was like, "Well, two weeks ago I got unsatisfactory. Now I'm proficient in everything? I'm so confused.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: So he didn't even have a [01:07:00] final, like the formal. We're supposed to do the pre-conference observation, post-conference.

We didn't do the post-conference. It was outside the window. Oh, you don't wanna talk about what a great job I did now,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Mm-hmm.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: hell all year and I just rocked this in a whole nother language? You don't-- Now we don't have time to talk about it. Okay.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: I pause you for a second? Um, th- b- I'm just, this whole time I'm thinking to... I have that conversation all the time about, on the podcast or people out in community saying like, "What are y- the things that you're seeing in the podcast about why Black educators are not staying in education?" And what I've come to find is there's no cut and dry answer.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: It's

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: There's so many different reasons because people are like, "Oh, we just need more Black people in education," and, "We need more Black people in leadership," or, "We need more..." And it's so more, much more complex than I think people actually understand. And [01:08:00] this conversation, what you're talking about, 'cause you're saying oversized classroom, incompetent leadership, lack of su- support.

Like there's so many different thing. Resources, um, nee- the needs of the community are not being met. You know, all these pieces, and I just, I just have to point that out again. And I'm always talking to the audience when I'm saying this 'cause you already obviously know. It's not this like just do these five things and then we'll all be staying.

It's much more complex than more Black teachers in the classroom, pay us more, and smaller class sizes. Because for some people that could be the trick, but some people that's not even touching what the issues are.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: and people don't realize some teachers, like honestly, I'm gonna be very transparent. Everybody not getting paid pennies, nickels, and dimes. I went from Charlotte, North Carolina making 40,000. I made $84,000 at CPS. Now they gonna make you work like a Hebrew slave for it,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: [01:09:00] Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: was not the problem.

I live downtown Chicago by myself, so it's not the pay. I ran out of that school. When I say ran, I don't know who left first on the last day, the kids or me. I'm not even joking.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: more Black people. I was in Englewood. If you know anything about Chicago, that's one of the worst neighborhoods, roughest neighborhoods on the South Side of Chicago. My leadership, uh, principal and vice principal were Black. The other school that I left, Fernwood, my principal and vice principal, or assistant principal, were Black. Everyone they brought in for PDs were Black. The teachers were mostly Black. So it's not about, like you said, more Black people. It's about how are you your load?

What are you delegating to the people in your charge? How are you showing up to support them and challenge them in a way that doesn't minimize their intelligence, their expertise, their wanting to try something new? If this isn't working and we're trying something that's working, why are you stonewalling me and making [01:10:00] me feel like I'm doing something wrong when I'm still getting the results?

The data is what the data is. The kids came from less than nothing. I have five-year-olds who didn't know the letters in their name. They're five. know how to hold a pencil correctly. They're still using Palmer grip. I am the one working through this by myself. I would actively ask for help. Can someone come out of this?

I've never taught kindergarten. I went from fifth grade

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: in one school year. So it's like we got parents cursing out the principal in front of the students. We got parents yanking up other people kids outside the cla- outside the school at the end of the day. The kids are seeing this on their walk home.

We got people

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Mm-hmm.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: letting their child vape in front of them. What are we supposed to say? This your mom letting you do this. All of these things, and then I still have to come back and teach tomorrow? It's psychotic. And so when you talk about why do people leave, it got to the point where I left the US because I'm like, losing the [01:11:00] joy that I had.

Like I, I barely survived that school year. And it's coming up on a year, Saturday actually, two days will be a year since I got on the plane to move to Brazil. Those four weeks or so between, um, leaving that school and moving to Brazil, other than cleaning out my house, I didn't do anything except sleep.

My body was just detoxing all the psychopathy that that one school year and that one school setting put me through, regardless of the 20 plus days I took off. I was taking zero days without a second thought because I can't handle this. There's no one for me to talk to at, about the school because they've already written this school off as, well, you know, like the location, the performance of the students, they've already written us off.

They're not coming to check. They're not doing any of this. They're-- the leadership is not listening. So what I did when I left, while I still had access to my CPS account, [01:12:00] I kept in touch with some of my students from that fifth grade year that was virtual. And um, I said, I sent them an email, "This is how you advocate for yourself."

I sent them like a pre-message, and then I aired it out. I s- I put them on. I said, "If you have any questions, email me. Don't respond to this." I put everyone from that school. I put, uh, my dad 'cause he also works in CPS. I put my old students on there, and I aired them out. I didn't curse once, but I said to them in one part I said, "We could have the next Brandon Blackwood or Nina Simone sitting behind one of these desks and we would never know because you don't have..."

I mean, I-- They still talk about that email to this day. When I went to visit them, they were like, "Girl, they let you in after you sent that?" And they did 'cause I told the truth I told the truth.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah,

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: to yell. I didn't have to do any... I told the truth. what you do with the truth is on you. But I said what I, what needed to be said.

No one else was gonna say it. I'm not gonna keep acting like this is normal. We can't normalize this. We have [01:13:00] police in our school where the oldest child is 14. They already know where to go. They don't have to ask, "Oh, where should we..." They know where to go. They're coming in classrooms. What are we doing?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Like, who is gonna stay for this? I had to choose myself. So when we talk about why I went to Brazil, A, it's Brazil. Like, ugh. But B, it's I'm losing the love I have to teach, and I know I was sent here on this earth to teach. So until I left Brazil, I'm like, "I have to be in a classroom." And I only lasted five months in Brazil because the racism, and that sounds like something very crazy to say in the most populous country with Black people outside of any place in Africa. The racism and the way that they treated women, so misogyny, the lack of respect because I'm Black, all these things. I'm being over-talked, under-listened to, disregarded, [01:14:00] people stealing my ideas, making them theirs. No solutions, nothing's happening, and I moved around the world for this? Like right now it's winter in Brazil, so I had three winters last year.

Three. in Chicago in January, one in Brazil in July, one in LA in December Like, no, we're not doing this. And it just got to a point where I had to say the classroom... I let my teaching license expire, both of them, in North Carolina last year, and it just expired June 30th of this year in Illinois. not renewing it. I'm not like, I, I won't say I'm traumatized. I will say that I saw what needed to be seen, and if I went back, I would be making a conscious decision to step back into something that I know is not for me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Absolutely.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I changed schools, I changed locations, I changed continents, and it got worse with each trickle. So, [01:15:00] um, it just gets to a point where choosing you becomes self-preservation. It becomes like the act of self-love. Like I love me too much to just subject myself to do what? To hold it together for some, for, for some nine-year-olds who are gonna lie on you? I had students lying on me about me putting their ha- my hands on them in Brazil because they didn't like the fact that I held them to a consequence for a fire drill the way that they acted, and they got separated from our class in a moment of safety, and the administration sided with them.

I was under investigation. Protocol, I get it, but I'm literally telling you the student that we all know is that student And they had to, you had to go through weeks of video and this and that, take statements and all of this for me to have been proven right, of course, 'cause I would never put my hands on a student, especially moving across the world to do so.

Please.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Please. And now another student is crying, and these are powerful people. When you move abroad, you're working at a private school. [01:16:00] You're working with the upper echelon of the upper echelons. So they know very early on, these students, how to manipulate adults, how to get their way, how to exert

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: lost on me at a private school, I'm the only Black teacher, the only Black person they see that is not maintenance or security.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Mm-hmm.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: And they have drivers at home. They have security at home. They have cooks at home who probably look like me. So what do you think they're associating? And every time you're backing them up on some outrageous claim they've made, I've got to go way back and pull all of this to prove my innocence because they didn't like the fact that they had a consequence at nine years old So it just got to a point where that became the play. The kids would rinse and repeat. They cried. The people would ask, "What's wrong?" Now I'm the villain. I'm getting pulled out of the classroom mid-teaching. God forbid we wait till a prep break or something. [01:17:00] Mid-educational moment to address craziness, and then I'm supposed to go back in front of these students who lied on me, and I'm supposed to engage with them.

I'm supposed to act like nothing's wrong. I, I don't e- I don't even go home to a hug. My dog is eight... 6,000 miles away.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: miles away. My grandmother is 83 years old, wondering when she's gonna see me again, and I'm dealing with this? No. it up. I'm done. And when you leave abroad before your contract is up, of course, you f- you're supposed to forfeit everything. But again, I was always... I never was a last year outer. I didn't, I couldn't afford to do that, you know? But I kept my notes, and I met with the superintendent. I requested the meeting. I talked to her like I'm talking to you. No emotion, just the facts. She took notes. She had nine pages of handwritten notes. She gave me three days off. Um, and she came back, she said, "I wish we could fix this for you, but I can't." Like [01:18:00] I, there's, "I can't promise that this will improve." And as a result, they paid me my entire first year sal- uh, semester's salary, all of my bonus, all of my benefits, paid, uh, my way home. All the things that you forfeit any other time.

You don't get a letter of recommendation. You don't get the flight back home. You don't... She laid out the red carpet and made HR do the same. They extended my insurance for a few months, so I would have health insurance. All of these things because of what I experienced, and I don't want anything but to leave.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I don't, I'm not gonna do... She gave me a letter of rec, which is a whole page. You know, like I got all of this because I told the truth, I also opened eyes to what's being experienced. And I told her, I said, "If you really want to show me that you're sorry, please don't hire any more Black teachers.

Please. Yo- you're not in a space to receive us." I told her, the superintendent of the entire school, which was, I think P3 to [01:19:00] G12, don't hire any more Black teachers. Let's, let's not do that. Don't put anybody else through what, what I've gone through in five months." Five months. I lasted five months. And Brazil is an amazing place. I got to experience picking fruit off of trees in the middle of the street and eating it without wondering, "Oh, is this illegal?" I got to experience fresh fruit, real food, in all of its forms, kind people outside of the school I worked at. You know, I got to experience what a developing country really is about and see all these amazing things, travel, everything.

It was not enough to make me stay

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: It was not enough.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, I believe that. I believe that

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: me back. Free me from this. I don't know what it is. I wanna go. I'm done

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah Oof

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: And that was the end of my journey as of November [01:20:00] 23rd, I think, 2025. Yeah

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: So yeah, that's a lot. So let me ask a question. Um, wow But where do I even start? Let me ask, w-what are you doing now?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Well now, um, I have taken because I just know that my purpose on earth is to teach, but these experiences have taught me that teaching isn't just confined to a classroom. So educating is helping people learn something that they didn't know before and applying something they didn't know how to do before.

So

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: yes

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: founded the Wellness Workshops, which is a holistic approach to wellness, and I take what I've learned as a teacher, so there's still some educating happening, of course. I do

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Of course

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: but I also, um, use my yoga certification. So for physical wellness, I host yoga certif- um, certifications, yoga workshops. I do for corporate, I do parties, [01:21:00] wellness parties, which are a big thing, especially here in LA. Everybody wants to be well. Um, partnerships, I'm working on my sound bowl certification right now to add that. But I also take that into the classrooms, into educational academic spaces for the youth because my students on the South Side of Chicago taught me need to learn how to regulate.

Of course, they didn't say it like that, but when I used to use those practices In the classroom, I noticed the difference. Parents were emailing me like, "What are you doing to my child? Like, there's so

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah. Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: siblings anymore."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: the physical wellness.

And then for mental and emotional wellness, and relational interpersonal wellness, I host workshops, and I also am a keynote speaker. So I have Embrace Your Inner Badass, which is my favorite. I love that so much. I've gotten invited to speak that at several, um, colleges, universities, and corporate settings, which was great. then I also host a workshop which is called Victory Starts Within, and it's a [01:22:00] three-part wellness workshop where I teach you those five pillars from my talk, putting it into practice through activities. And it's hands-on, it's interactive, it's... I've been told it's life-changing. I've gotten a few emails.

They're like, "Literally, thank you. I cried for days, but I cried what I was releasing from the workshop."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Sure

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: good. That was, for me, like the reason that I do this. And then I have financial literacy for students because honestly, our kids don't understand math because they don't see the correlation between math that we learn, fractions, decimals, adding, subtracting, multiply, dividing, and the real world. When you put that with money, now everybody wanna know. Now everybody leaning in, taking

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: asking questions and doing all this. So that's called Secure the Bag, and I love doing that because, um, the second part of the workshop. The first part is giving them keys, tools, things they can retain. The second part is having them work through a budget, and I use my budget, [01:23:00] my real budget.

And I tell them this from when I was a teacher in Chicago. These were my expenses. This was the money I brought in. I asked them, "What do you notice about the budget?" We have conversations. They notice I didn't have kids. I ask them, "How would my budget look different if I was your mom? How many siblings do you have?

So if you see your mom is paying this, and you asking for Jordans." We have those conversations that make them think and say, that's right." And then I ask them, "Where does your mom work? Walmart, um, Wall Street, wherever. Well, look at how

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: make. We can Google

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: lowest, this is the most. Do you see what I was making? Is it close to what your mom was making?" I put them in that mindset, it helps them understand. So now I'm saying, "Okay, well, this is paid every two weeks, so you're gonna add it twice or you're gonna multiply by two? Either way, you should get the same answer." So we have all of these conversations where I'm still Miss J in the classroom, but I'm bringing it to them in a way that they can honestly [01:24:00] say, "I wanna learn more.

I'm gonna pay attention." I had a 12th grader tell me "Well, thank you." He w- 'cause I think he had to go to summer school. He's like, "Well, thank you. Now, I guess I'm really gonna pay attention when they talk about percentages in summer, in my summer school."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, I love that

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: it took my workshop, but I'm glad that I got you to do that. And letting them see for themselves, you don't know how to tell what's 25% off $99. So that's what I work on in my workshop now. One of my workshops is teaching the students math. I tell them, "Math is nothing but time and money, and you can't afford to waste either." That's my biggest thing. My students will tell you that. Some things that I said in my classroom, I still say to this day, and I always think of my kids. I'm like, "I know they know I will say this." Like, they will finish that sentence right away. And I just bring that because it's so needed. I just... does not mean easy, but it literally means simple, and I make everything simple.

You can't make it complicated without showing yourself, "Yeah, I just did too much." [01:25:00] In all of my workshops, all of my talks, I'm just about how do we get here? It might not

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: but it is simple. So that's, that's really, I call it the real route and relatable keys to living a victorious life

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, I love this. If people are interested in working with you, how can they find you?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: So I am on social media @sjalispeaks on Instagram, and then I also have my website of the same name, sjalispeaks.com. I would love to hear from you. Please fill out the form on my website. Be curious. Be curious. Inquire about how I can support you, come to your workshop, your school, your facility, your organization.

I would love to partner. Let's do it.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, love. Yeah, and make sure to reach out to her folks, and that's J-A-E.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: say S-J-E-I...

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yes, perfect. Thank you. So thinking about your journey, and my questions are a little out of order [01:26:00] today, that's totally fine.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: fine

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: your journey, your yoga certifications way back, all the things you're, you've done to talked about therapy, you talked about all these pieces.

On this end, post-Brazil, post-COVID, post-Chicago, post-Chicago, post-Chicago, right? All that, right, for you right now, what does it mean to be well?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Hmm. I don't think people gonna like my answer, that's

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: That's all right. It's for you

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: the right one. For me, being well is being selfish and being present, period. Is being, is being selfish. I have to lo- I love saying no. It's like my favorite muscle in my body at this point. Uh, you gonna get a no from me real quick.

I might come back and say, "You know what I thought about it, and it is yes." But immediately, no. Because being selfish is what allowed me to walk away from what was not serving me. I gave education in the classroom more than 20 years of my life, [01:27:00] from when I first started with my grandmother till when I walked away. Eight of those years I spent in my own classrooms around the world, and I noticed what was being taken from me. It wasn't just time with family and friends and this, it was taking from me internally. I didn't have peace. I was not joyous. I was not resting. What kind of way is this to live this one life that I got to meet this wonderful Black woman?

Absolutely not. So when I started saying, have to work from the inside out, that's what I've been doing. And being able to do that, you have to say no to things that you simply don't wanna do. I don't wanna get out the bed right now. I will reschedule this meeting

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: work later in the day because I was supposed to start working at 8:00, but now I'm gonna work around 11:30. I will work on a Sunday evening every now and then, but most of my Sundays are my me days. My phone is on DND, and only five people can get through. Only five, and they know who they are. Everyone else, I [01:28:00] will see your message on Monday. Because if I wanna take a day trip, if I wanna go to brunch, if I wanna sit outside and let a lizard run past my foot, that's what's gonna bring me joy in this moment.

So it's just about being selfish and realizing the more that society has taught us to give, give, give, it's never to ourselves. we have to wonder why that is. Why is it that I'm not worthy? Because if I don't work, nothing works. If I'm sick, if I'm this, if I'm that, who's bringing me soup? Who's bringing me Kleenex?

Who's dropping by to say, "Hey, did you take some medicine? Did you drink some tea?" It might

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: and then, but everything else has to stop. And guess what doesn't stop? The world. No day that I didn't go in a classroom did my kids get sent home. It never happened. Never. It never happened. So when I am being selfish, the guilt came at first.

It's like, "You're supposed to be doing something. You're supposed to be doing it. You gotta do this."

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Mm-hmm.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I'm like, "I'm doing this, and I feel good about it. And if my brain got too loud, I'm gonna take a nap, [01:29:00] because now you ain't got nothing to say. I'm sleep." So

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah. Oh, I love that

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yes, like being selfish has really changed how I show up because I'm so much happier now.

I'm so much happier. I'm booking things for shits and gigs. Sorry if I can't say shits. But for shits and gigs, you

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: you're good

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: just doing it for the plot. I'm doing it because I can. I'm doing it because it's available to me. Because this is the life that I've been building every day outside the classroom.

And it's not to say that I couldn't do it in the classroom, but I didn't want to. I didn't have anything to give myself. even have a TV in my, my most recent apartment because I didn't want noise. I didn't have a TV. It was... It's psychotic, it's chaotic, it's loud, it's ever-changing. It's, I'm overstimulated.

My students knew when I did this. Sh- they would say, "She's overstimulated, guys." Five-year-olds. Why do five-year-olds have to know that that's what this means for me because I'm trying to [01:30:00] regulate? not

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: being selfish, I don't do this as much anymore. And if I do, I'm probably leaving shortly after.

Irish goodbye. I'll text you from the car. Um, and then being present. This life that I have post-teaching It's a work in process. Like, it's not really in progress, it's just in process. Like I'm processing. don't have to get up when my alarm goes off. I do because I'm a morning person and I like to be up, you know, watching the sun come up.

But if I wanna sleep till 6:15, 7:00, 8:30, I'm gonna do that. I am learning what it means to be free. It's just accepting that I have the energy that God gave me to get through this day. This day is here. I'm here with this day. I'm gonna be present in this. If I don't check my phone and text you back for a couple hours...

And I used to be somebody, I still am this person, 'cause please don't let me see a red notification on anything. I have turned off [01:31:00] all notifications on all apps except, um, phone, messaging, and email. Everything else, I don't get notified

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: that's overwhelming. It's like, "Oh my God, I gotta do this." No you don't. No you don't. I'm present with someone who's in my face. I'm present with my book. I'm present with the project I'm working on. I'm present with whatever I'm doing in that moment. And so when I have a moment, if I'm walking and I was like, "Oh, let me check now," everything's not urgent. So I think

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: me prioritize this.

I have a thing where it's like if I make, if I s- if I hit one goal today and I'm happy with my day, what would that goal be? And then I work for that. And if the goal is like, I could kinda do that tomorrow, depending on how I feel as I move through the day, I might do it tomorrow or I might do it later in the day.

I'm just really seeing how life is meant to be enjoyed. 'Cause I feel like so many times we're surviving. Like, "Oh my God, I gotta go to work tomorrow. Sunday scaries.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah, [01:32:00] that's the truth. That's true

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: you know, we gotta go to, to Boo Boo's game at 6:00. I ain't ate all day." What you mean you ain't ate all day? What? And you wonder why you're dizzy, you're irritated, you're

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: just being present. I have an alarm that's set every day at 12:30. It literally says, and I quote, "Eat, bitch." To make sure I've eaten something by mid of the day to just, if I get tunnel vision or hyper-focused to pull me out and say, "Charge yourself.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Sure.

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: good.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Sure. I love that

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: know.

And it, it took a lot to get here because sometimes it's like I felt guilty for doing nothing, but it's like how many times have I done everything? How many times have I done everything and I thought it was supposed to be this way? Why can't it be different? And I think asking that question, like, why can't it be different, helps you be selfish. So yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Thank you. Thank you. I hope the audience heard that. You know what I [01:33:00] mean? It's take back the word selfish. I love this. Um, our final question is, in your time in teaching, growing up, even in this present moment of teaching outside the traditional classroom space, you've ran into, been taught by, learned from, or taught other teachers.

Is there a Black educator or Black educators that you would like to shout out?

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: Yes, there are two. So my nana, rest in peace, Ms. Barbara Ann Banks Hayes, she was the catalyst to everything. Like, the first job I ever got, I wanted to call her that day, and I burst into tears 'cause I couldn't. And I got home and I read-- I found this card, index card that she had written me at my trunk party when I was leaving high school to go to college, and it was Isaiah 40:9, I think.

It's like, "Fear not, I am with thee." It's like, oh my God, like she saw this. I-- it was a mess. I was not worth a quarter. [01:34:00] So I give all of my educational everything to her. And then two, Ms. Ferman, my sunshine. I love her. Shay Ferman. Woo. I-- Lord knows I would not have made it through that kindergarten year without her. Her just listening to my jokes, listening to me vent, talking about outrageous stuff, doing things after work together that were not school-related, being a listening ear, giving that advice, and just always telling me how proud she is. Like I-- because she is an older teacher. She, "You almost there, girl. Three more years."

She got three more years till she is out of there with her retirement. But she will always say, um, "I really admire you younger teachers, you younger people in general, because you do the things we wish we could have done. You know, you take time for yourself." Like, she always affirmed me. She would always come 'cause she was always on my BCC.

Always. Always. She would come [01:35:00] and say, "Girl, now that email, you know you need to send that out. You, you said that." Every time. She never questioned anything. She always had my back. We still talk to this day. Um, and I just, I have a special place in my heart for her. Today is actually her birthday.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: All

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: I just looked at the,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: right

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: July 9th.

Happy birthday, sunshine.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: birthday

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: yes, she... Yeah, she, she is that person. Like, if you get a person like that in the classroom, at, in life, but especially in the classroom, who just knows how to hold space genuinely, who knows when to pivot the conversation when you are, like, too far in the trenches and you just ruminating on that thing, and she like, "Okay, but, but now we about to go to lunch.

So be mad

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Yeah

s--jae-ali--edm--she-her-hers-_1_07-09-2026_101007: We about to go eat." That was her. She was always down to do something out of pocket, out of the ordinary. She was always willing to try. So without her, this situation would've been a lot, a lot [01:36:00] different. So I will always be grateful for her

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2026_111011: Thank you. All right, folks. This has been another fantastic episode of The Exit Interview, a podcast for Black educators. Jay, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for coming to the convening in LA and staying connected. Um, you have a fantastic story, and I'm so happy that you, you know, f- decided to go ahead and share it because I know that the community of listeners is going to benefit.

Um, folks, go out there and make sure to be selfish. Make sure to take care of yourself, take care of each other, and we'll see you on the next, next episode. All right. Peace