How Radical Self-Care Saved Me with Dr. Franita Ware

How Radical Self-Care Saved Me with Dr. Franita Ware

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dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: All right folks. Welcome back to the exit interview podcast for black educators. It's me, your host, Dr. Asia. And of course, I know I say this every time, you all are used to me saying this, but more amazing guests. Today I have Dr. Nita Ware on. We connected on LinkedIn and we see each other in person. We've been together in community because we were both in the Denver area we've been chopping it up for a while.

And then

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: I think it's time for you to be in the podcast. And she said, I've been waiting for you to ask me. And so we are finally here. Um, and I think, you know what? You all have seen her on our YouTube channel because we had conversation, a couple conversations a while back where she and I were just recording and talking.

So now she's here to officially tell her story. Welcome to the show.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Thank you, Dr. Asia. You know, you know I'm humbled because all the [00:01:00] amazing guests you have, and I'm honored because we finally get to people, get to see how we talk. It might, it might get a little wild because we really vibe

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah, we do. We do. I mean, and I said, you know, we recorded that, that little clip a while back. It is just like, let's just push record on it. Let's just see what we talk about.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: it, it was happening.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. It was, it was. So, um, I'm excited to have you on the show. Tell the audience a little bit about yourself. Who are you? Um, that they should know.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Um, so I am the child of Mary Francis Ware. I am, uh, an educator. Uh, this is not my first career and we'll talk about that. I am committed to this work. This is my purpose on earth.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I get to enjoy the work that I do from that perspective as, as opposed to, oh, it's a job or This, this, I have education in this, so I'm supposed to do this.

It's like, this is what I choose to do. And with that comes a lot [00:02:00] of joy. And when I go do the work that I do, people feel that joy. They talk about how they like my energy. Um, and so it, it becomes, it, it comes from an authentic place. So I get to be authentically me in the work that I do, and it's amazing.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: I love that. And I love that you shouted out your mother. You are right. Our first teacher for so many of us,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: I find that more and more folks are speaking about their parents, thinking about their grandparents, their ancestors, and just bringing them into space. 'cause it's so important to acknowledge, uh, our unofficial teachers, our

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: in that way.

Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: you for that. So let's go ahead and get started. question, what was your journey into education? How did you know that education was for you?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So very non-conventional. Um, I, education was my third career. I was invited into education. So in the sixth grade, my sixth grade teacher. Um, [00:03:00] Ms. Henson at the time had taught my brother, who's a few years older than me, and he had the absolute crush on her, so I knew about her already. And because I lived in a community where teachers stayed in the community and taught,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I, I didn't, I didn't go to a school where teachers were just coming in and out of the, the door.

Um, I knew of this teacher. This teacher knew my mother. Um, and so years later when I had moved back to Atlanta and I was working in commercial art and my client had not paid me on Friday, and he said, are you coming back? And I said, no, that's volunteering. And so

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Right, right.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: and so, so that we can, let's not get stuck there.

So that weekend, but that weekend, um, my sixth grade teacher who is a family friend who is now a principal of a school, um, asked me what was I was doing and I said, actually nothing that she said, come up for me. And [00:04:00] so I went to go sub for her, um, in Atlanta Public Schools. Um, the first, the first day, the first week I was there with kindergartners and they ate me up.

They, they, what I was doing,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Of course

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: they,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: can be treacherous. Yeah. They like to gang up on folks. Yes.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I was, they were like Pacman on me. And after the first day she was like, really? You, you're gonna let kindergartners run over you? And it's actually in my book too. Um, and so I got into it and by the end of the week I knew that was something I wanted to do.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And I literally went from being a substitute teacher to a college professor working on my doctorate.

Within 10 years, the doors opened for me. Um. Af that was in February. By summer I decided, okay, I gotta, I gotta go get [00:05:00] certified. I worked at a summer camp with another black woman educator, just like everybody was like, see if you really wanna do this. So I worked at the summer camp. That was great. Um, Clark Atlanta University had, uh, scholarship money for people entering the field or needing to get credentials.

I was there at the right time at the right place. Did that start working on my master's, um, you know, continued to work as from a substitute to a paraprofessional. Um, then got into a first grade classroom. Um, and literally in 10 years time, like one day I had to think about it, went from a substitute teacher to a college professor teaching at Spelman College as I was finishing my doctorate.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Well,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And so the, so it was where I was supposed to be. The doors opened so fast, I had to slow down. I had to stop taking so many job offers because it looked like I was job hopping. I was.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: mm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: You need to stay here. So I stayed at Spelman for eight years. Um, and then from there, went into school administration, [00:06:00] uh, moved to Denver to do school administration, uh, became a graduate school professor here as an adjunct at du.

Um, it's been quite the journey, uh, but I, I love the work. I love my research. I, I love that I get to continue to do it. I love that I've written a book about it now, and so that, that fuels my professional development. I always wanted to do professional development with teachers in schools.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I, I love, I love teaching, don't get me wrong, but I also wanted to make, be able to connect with teachers in real time.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And so now I do work with teachers in real time.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: So let me ask you a question. Um, you start as a, as a, a substitute teacher and like you said, became a paraprofessional, then a an edu classroom educator. you find, did you find that when you became a classroom teacher, because you had the experience of both the sub and the paraprofessional, that it helped, even though you [00:07:00] were in your very early stages of teaching in a traditional classroom, that that experience helped you

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: community,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Can you talk more about that?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: yes. Um, you know, being a substitute teacher, you have to get good fast. Um, so I learned, I learned how to get good fast. I also learned that elementary was my age. I, I did, um, middle school and I thought, Hmm, this, this is not, these not my people.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. They, not for everybody.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: you know, you know, everybody has a grade level, and I say that every, you know, some people are high school, some people are middle, some people are elementary.

I'm elementary and college or grad. I'm that in between. That's somebody else's mission.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And so, um, yes, definitely having some life experiences. Um, because I was older, I was not, uh, 21 years old, first coming outta college.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Well, how old were you when you

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I was 30.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: sub?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I was like 30.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Oh, okay.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. So, um, I, [00:08:00] being a sub made me get good real fast, and you had to come in with those strategies to get in charge to let them know you were in charge, like right away, you know?

And I just talk about, I didn't wanna be the dragon lady all day long. And so one of my own class was like a build the relationships and we could, we could just do the work and we could just enjoy education as opposed to, you know, substitutes. You have to come in being in charge as a paraprofessional. I was in a school where I had worked as a sub and now I was a paraprofessional again.

My, my sixth grade teacher was now a principal, you know, then hired me as a sub. I mean, as a paraprofessional. And so I knew the school, I knew the students, and so it was easier, the relationships were

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: had developed relationships with my colleagues and so I could watch them and see things they did and, and learn from them.

Um, and so it was really a very easy transition because I was in a community of educators who supported me and encouraged me. I was being encouraged, of course, by the principal. [00:09:00] Um, but it, it was, it was easy. But I, you know, I had maturity on my side too.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Sure. And there's something to be said like you said earlier, you were in a class or you were in a school where the, the community was in the school where the teachers lived in the community. You, you knew the teacher, the principal, your brother had like this, this long standing relationship.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: I know, I was, as you were talking, I was thinking about I ever see my teachers in community?

And I did. And this is Detroit Public Schools, not here in Denver. I did see my teachers in community and my, like the teachers that my sister had, I wanted and vice versa. And so it does, I could see how it could make a difference on the teacher side because it definitely made a difference on the student side. So when you were at the school first grade, well, how long was it before you realized that you wanted to go back and get your Master's?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Well, so I was [00:10:00] working on my master's, so I had always planned to get a doctorate. In the 11th grade I had a um, um, school counselor and we were talking about the work that he did and you know, the type of education you needed for it. And I learned then a psychiatrist needs a medical degree, a psychologist needs a PhD.

And I was like, I can do that now. I didn't know anybody with a PhD, but I. I felt empowered in the 11th grade to believe like, okay, that's what we're gonna do. And so I had planned, you know, do, I had an undergrad degree in psychology, uh, which also supported education. A lot of my classes for my psychology degree counted toward my credentials in Atlanta.

Yeah. So I, I, I mean, it was like, I, it's like I found my space finally. Um, and I hadn't gotten into graduate school in psychology. And so when that all, when all of that started happening, I was like, oh, I'm getting a PhD. And so I started working on my master's immediately. Um, and I took a year off between my master's and my PhD because [00:11:00] my brain needed a break.

Um, and also just needed to teach and not go to school for a year.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: that's a lot. It's

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It was a lot. It, it, I was, I was just determined and I had so much encouragement and I was treated like, yes honey, this is where you're supposed to be. Um, and so. The masters led into the kind of dual of master's and credentials, because I still had to do some things for credentials that were not part of the Master's.

Took the year off again. I'm, I, you know, I, I attended the HBCU, I attended Clark Atlanta University. As I was finishing my master's, my, my main professor was like, so where are you going to get the PhD? And I said, really? I'd like to go to Emory. And he was like, oh, my, my best friend's wife teaches there. Let me introduce you.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Nice.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: how I met Dr. Jacqueline Jordan Irvine. And you know, the rest is history. I, you know, I was admitted into Emory. She had funding to do a program called [00:12:00] Cultures and that's where she was doing professional development with teachers. She had created this, uh, professional development model.

Teachers, uh, participated. They were paid. She, she taught the importance of making sure teachers are paid for their work and their time. Um, and so in that, like I said, the doors just opened.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I was just so nurtured and so brought into the profession in a way I had not experienced any place else professionally.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. And there's something to be said about this, this network of people that we are around, right? And I know when sometimes we say the word network, people think like very staunch suits and business, but it can be all types of relationships. Uh, we just had someone on, uh, Candace Renee person, and we had Dr.

Dr. Lance Bennett on, and they both talked about someone saying, Hey, I think you should blah, blah, blah, or Let me introduce you to blah, blah, blah, or you might wanna consider this, that, or the other.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: [00:13:00] And there's something to be said about these little nudges if we follow them, if we follow up, if we say yes, can take us on a journey that we would've never gone on otherwise. So I always love to hear and stop and acknowledge that. And people saying, let me introduce you to this person. Or you know, like the principal just calling you right after you decided not working for free. And then we're down, we're down the road here in Denver and we wouldn't have been here had you said, oh, I'm not, I can't be a sub those kid, blah, blah, blah, blah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Or, or after the first day say, oh no, I can't do that.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: yeah, the

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: something else to do.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: me up. Yes. Yeah. I, I love, I love to hear that. So you got your PhD at Emory during that. So let me ask a different question. This whole time that you are, you are transitioning from one space to another, what was the conversation like in your household with your family, with your mom [00:14:00] and you tell her, I'm gonna be a teacher.

What, what, what was that like? Because like you say, you're 30 at this point, and so that's not a simple, like, quick I'm 21 or whatever. What was that conversation?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So here's the prime example. It's interesting you ask that. So my friends back here in Denver, you know, I have extended family here. When I told them I was gonna be a teacher, they were like, really? What, what brought that? Because I had never been a child kind of person.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: the youngest in my family. I never even babysat like I was, not that.

I, yeah, I was it. Um, and so I never had experiences with children. Um, it, it was not. I, you know, I was a commercial artist before that, you know, I, I was, you know, I had, I came from Atlanta. I enjoyed life. I, you know, I, that, that wasn't on the radar at all. And so everyone was like, really? [00:15:00] Okay.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Uhhuh.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Y'all like,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: but

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: be happy for me.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: yeah, they're like, okay, well, we'll see how this works out.

And so it was after I got into it and they saw how I just, I mean, like, I was, I was hustling.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I was doing a master's and credentials classes. I was subbing. Um, I, no, I was, um, a paraprofessional. Fortunately, my principal understood when I just had to get papers done. And so I could take a couple days off, especially, and when I was, uh, working as a sub, I definitely could like just not be available that weekend and get work done.

But I was hustling to, you know, I wanted to do this. Um, I was even going to a different school than Clark au. For some of my credential classes just to get 'em done because I wanted to get in a classroom and I kept saying, I don't wanna be the dragon lady anymore. I wanna come in and just love kids and have fun and just, I don't wanna have to like be in control.

I wanted to just be [00:16:00] relaxed. And so I was working really hard to get all the things I needed to get done so I could get into my own classroom.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. And when you got there, was it what you thought it was going to be?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It was not in Atlanta public schools. And so the, the children were different. Uh, and so I had to make that adjustment. Um, but it was amazing.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: my commercial art background, we had amazing art projects. Um.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Oh, I bet.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Oh, oh, I had a dragon that went the length of the ceiling. We had a tree in the hallway that went up the wall and leaves were hanging down and there were a hundred leaves because I taught my students how to count to a hundred.

Um, and, and they even told me I had to take the tree down because it was setting off the fire alarm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: I was gonna say, uh, we could barely put anything on the ceiling when I was teaching because the, that the fire department was like uhuh nothing on the ceiling.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: [00:17:00] Yeah. So I, you know, I had to, I I, instead of things hanging, 'cause they literally were hanging,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: you know, attached everything to the wall. So I, 'cause I just couldn't take the tree down. I mean, the students were so engaged and so we had so much fun and my students knew that they had a part of me that no one else got.

They would see how I interact with the other, other adults in the building and other people would come to the classroom. But they knew when I closed the door and I was teaching with them. They saw a part of me, no one else, and they knew they had a part of me that nobody else had. And so the relationship we had was amazing.

And, um, I hadn't gone to graduate school yet. I mean, I hadn't gone to do my doctoral studies yet where I was learning about cultural responsive education. And so there were things I didn't know yet, but there were things I knew intuitively, which is very much, um, my research on warm demanded teachers, like black teachers know things intuitively.

And I had been taught by black teachers. You know, most of my school experiences in Atlanta, except [00:18:00] for um, about three years was always was in the black community with black teachers. And so I knew things intuitively about teaching that just kinda like woke up in the moment. Um, and so it was, it was an amazing experience even though all the students didn't look like me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Sure. And I think, you know, first, the first thing I'm thinking about you talking is, um, all the people that I've interviewed, I just imagine just having 12 of you all as my classroom teachers across K 12 or 13, however many, I don't know how amazing education I would've received or lots of kids would've received. That's the first thing. And the second thing is we've had a lot of conversation, you and I, about black teachers just knowing, just, and I told you that I had a assistant principal one day ask me, I want, or tell me, I want you to teach other teachers how to be a, he didn't say warm demander 'cause he didn't have

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: he knew, but [00:19:00] he knew it was that, that that.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah, you and we, you and I talked about in the very beginning, neither one of us knew how to teach that. Like, I don't know, I just, I was taught by black teachers in d in my own DPS in D Detroit Public schools. I'm just doing, I'm teaching how I was taught. Right. And we'll get into later on, like the warm demand teacher, your book and what you've come to know and your professional development.

But I really think that's really interesting that you're saying that. So you finish your PhD, you don't go back to teaching in a K 12 space

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: or do, and so where do you go from there?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: so I was working on my doctorate when I got hired at Emory. I was like toward the end,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Sure.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I was still working on my doctorate when I got hired at Spelman. And so I, I literally finished my doctorate while I was teaching my students at Spelman.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Oh

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And I will never forget this one student. Um, when I had my hearing, um, she like, you know, they would [00:20:00] come to my office and we'd talk and all those things.

And I was saying something about, about our finishes. She was like, wait a minute, because I was professor wear before that. And she was like, wait a minute, you're done, you doctor wear? And I said, yeah, I'm done. She said, oh, see you, you. Which you're not making a big enough deal about it. Something she said.

And, and I'm still, and I'm still closer to the student too. Please know, we still stay in contact. I have students I'm still in contact with,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Oh, I love

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: and I want you to know, when I went back to class the next time I was Dr. Ware, I guess she got the word out. I never had to say, now call me. I, they did it. So it's that kind of thing.

Like, I can't remember what she said. But in other words, you are not making a big enough deal about this. You're done now. In other words, we've been on this road with you.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I would, I would talk about my paper. I would talk about what I was writing and my ideas. They helped critique warm demand or teachers, like they were part of the process with me.

And so when, when I achieved it, I, like, they called me Dr. Ware. I didn't tell them they had to start now calling me Dr. Ware.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: I [00:21:00] love that.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: tell us about the, we've had a couple folks that were students at Spelman on the podcast, but never a professor, so would love to hear. I know there are people in K 12 who desire to teach in higher education they're going back to school to get their PhD, their ED, their id. And I know the times are different. Employment is looking much different than it did, you know, even 10 years ago. But tell us about that experience. Um, did how you applied, how you got like all these pieces, how long you were there, what you learned, what you loved about it, which was what was challenging. We wanna know all of that.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Okay. Um, it, it, it was an opportunity that came to me because my sister-in-law had attended Spelman and she really, she joked about I was being a placeholder for her until she was ready to come, but she, she lived in [00:22:00] Delaware, you know, she, she was

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: The prospect was low.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: She was not, but she, but she, but she had this dream about I'll just be there until she's ready to come back.

And, and, and she got her doctorate before me. So she was the, she's the first doctor wear. Um, so I, I was always almost doctor wear with her as I was going through the process. Then I became doctor wear. So we're both doctor wear. So my sister-in-law, doctor wear, um, had attended Spelman, new people there told me about the opportunity.

Even so I had, I had stopped gonna school full time because I just needed something else to do with my brain. Started teaching fifth grade. Um, when the opportunity came up, my principal, who was great getting her doctorate. Emory too. Emory too. She was like, you need to go do that because you'll have more time to write.

And I, she's right. I did not have time to write, teach in fifth grade all day, you know, five days a week. Um, we thought we could kinda work it out. She knew I was writing it. She was, and in fact, she wrote a recommendation for me to go to Spelman. She said, you need, you need more time to write. [00:23:00] Um, it was an amazing experience because even though I got my master's at Clark au I didn't have an undergrad HBCU experience.

I felt very honored and humbled to be there. The students were amazing. I, like I said, I had students who still keep in touch with me, and that's, that's just wonderful to me. Um, I was there at a time that it was good to be an educator. I had never planned to, to be a professor. Um, in fact, as I was working on my PhD, I thought I wanted to work at a foundation,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: to direct money to the right community.

That was like my, my dream. It was like, you know, and, and my professor used to talk about, you need the right people at the table. So I was like, okay, I'll be that person at the table that says, let me tell you why this project for black students is a And I saw where she, she know, she, uh, for foundation money to pay for.

Program that she was running. So I thought, oh, foundations, okay, that's, that's, that's a, a [00:24:00] venue that I might be interested in. But Spelman was a wonderful experience. I loved it. I loved my students. It was challenging. No, no doubt about it. It was challenging. Um, and toward the end of that time, I was really missing seeing children.

I used to say that I, I miss seeing children every day. And even though I would go and observe my students when they were student teaching and everything, and I would hear about it, I miss seeing children.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Sure.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And so I transitioned from there to being an, i I had a client who, then I became an assistant principal at a charter school,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Okay.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: so

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: in Atlanta.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: in the Atlanta area.

And so it was like back to seeing children again.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: was, that was the only thing I missed seeing children. Um, and feeling like I was having a direct connection. I had an amazing experience with my students. Uh, I used to tell them, look, you'll be the cultural responsive consultant in [00:25:00] your building.

You'll be the one who knows it. You'll be able to teach them how to do it. Um, they were very much involved in the, um, warm demand or development of my ideas. Like I said, I still hear from students, um, but I'm missing seeing children. I wanted to, I wanted to work with teachers directly in schools. So it wasn't this, I told you in college, now, will you go do it?

When you teach that, it'll be the direct connection of we are doing professional development on Wednesday afternoon, Thursday morning. You're taking the ideas and you're running with it.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: that, that was, so that's how that transition happened. I miss, I miss children.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: From, from not babysitting to missing children.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: you a long way off. I mean, yeah. And so many folks, it's interesting 'cause so many folks would assume that US film was like the, the cake. It was like the icing on the cake. It was, that's it.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It was,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: it's homecoming you retire from. [00:26:00] Um, and especially the way, shout out to Stacey, Brandon, how it's been described to me how Spelman is.

I couldn't, I can't from this side. Imagine packing up and saying like, let's go and do something else. But I love that you're saying that. And it is, we do get to a place, I think especially this has been the tension in higher education, is that folks who are teaching higher ed to pre-service educators or educators have been long away from students, away from children and community.

And then they no longer know what's happening right now.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: and that was part of it. I didn't want to be just an academic.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I didn't want to have ideas that weren't fresh,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: connected to the day-to-day. I didn't wanna be so far removed that my ideas were just ideas. I wanted to be able to say, and this, this is what [00:27:00] happens, and this, and this is how we solve this problem, and this is how it worked out.

And so and so, that was a vibrant, amazing experience. And then when I went to the charter school, that was a new, vibrant, amazing experience. And again, in all those experiences, I'm with black educators.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I always had this feeling of home. I always had this feeling of, uh, people appreciating me for my authenticity.

Um, it just, it, you know, it's very different in Denver. Um, but it fed me in the way I needed to be fed. And again, remember, I'm transitioning into this career, had never planned to be an educator. And so finding places where I felt at home and valued and welcomed were critical for me. Where I was at that point in my life,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: And speaking of this whole time you're in Atlanta, and I probably am fast forwarding a little bit, but how did you get to Denver? Because Denver is not [00:28:00] close to Atlanta, and I know that when I started teaching, and this is in 2006, we did have. and I don't know what we're, we're not, I don't have a context of what you're, you're talking about, but in 2006, I know that the district that I worked in there was just like this huge push to get folks specifically from Atlanta, from HBCUs, from like the south and some of the east coast to come out here. That wasn't why I came. I came because I needed the job and they just happened to, just had, my husband and I just happened to pick, to pick Colorado. But like, how did you end up here?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: so after college, so I left Atlanta.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Because you went to,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So I attended Bluffton College in Bluffton, Ohio

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: okay.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: growing up in, in Atlanta, it was a lot of fun. And I knew, remember in the 11th grade that I was getting a PhD, and so I knew I needed to go someplace quiet where I would focus [00:29:00] and get the GPA go grad school.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: you, I love that you thought like that at the 11th grade.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Let me tell you, I didn't, I didn't make a lot of good decisions in 11th grade, but, but I made that one.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: stop. I mean, that's brilliant because some people are like, Atlanta. Oh yeah, I'm going down there, gonna parties. And

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: But,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: opposite.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I grew up in Atlanta, so Spelman was up the street, so I, you know, you know, I was used to being dominant culture. I was used to all of that. I was used to being valued and respected. I was used to navigating circles where, places where I was not dominant culture and where I was dominant culture.

And so I had, I had a very healthy. Sense of all that. And I, and you know, I have a, a good friend now that, um, I tell her, you know, your son doesn't necessarily need to go to Morehouse. He grew up in Atlanta. You're an educator, you're doing all these things. He's, he has that lived experience. So I had the lived experience where I could go other places.

And so I picked a place and I had applied to all the other, you [00:30:00] know, places, you know, on the East coast where you would be prestigious to go. But this was a place I needed to go

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Sure,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: the GPA and I needed as few distractions as possible to get the GPA. And so I did. I got the GPA for grad school.

Um, moved out here, uh, after college, had thought I was gonna go to CU Boulder. Had applied to CU Boulder for their, um, pH master's in PhD program in psychology. Didn't get in, thought I would just reapply.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: sure.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Uh, and came here, you know, my twenties. I was like, oh, wait a minute. This, this is fun.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: made lifelong friends, uh, an extended family here, and then moved back to Atlanta, and that's how I got into education.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Okay, gotcha.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: you had your first career team of

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: yeah, I was, I was in public administration. I'm, I'm in my twenties, I'm working in city government, you know, I'm like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: the

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: and the suit and the

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: and, you know, and you know, the heels and the suits. You [00:31:00] know, you, I'm from Atlanta, so you not brought all that here.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: And, and I can we just have a, a, a side note here, folks for a second. Folks in Colorado can't dress. I said it, I said it folks. And in, um, Detroit, Chicago, Atlanta put on clothes.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: is a thing.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: a thing here you can be at a wedding. People are wearing jeans. People are, I mean, so I can only imagine. And

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: honey.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: watching this on or listening to this on Spotify, Dr.

Nita has got her earrings on. She did not come to play. Y'all, she got on the blouse. Okay.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It's a dress.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: a dress, I,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It's a dress.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: mess. But I got on a, uh, a sweatshirt and she got me wanting to run to my, back to my room, and. myself together, but yeah. Um, so you spin a circle back here then?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I made a circle back. I did it. I decided to come back here again. I had these extended friendships. Um, my mother had passed. [00:32:00] Uh, I have brothers, you know, that are, uh, there. Um, but it was like, okay, so where am where am I gonna land? Where do I really want to live? You know? And I never thought, like, even living here, people are like, are you gonna move back?

I'm like, I live near the airport. I don't, I don't need to move. So I, you know, I, I like, I like air travel, so I don't, this is home, but I will always do a lot of traveling and, and I go to Atlanta regularly. Before COVID, I would go to Atlanta on the weekend and get my hair done, like.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Okay. And that's a real thing too, 'cause finding someone do your hair. It's better now, but it was, it

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It is much better now. I have an amazing person now, but you know, even she talks about how she didn't do natural hair back then

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: she only re

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: a lot of people

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah, I would, I would say natural hair and they'd be like, press, I'm like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: right away. Press

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: no natural hair. Like, like this is, this is my hair right here.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Um, [00:33:00] and so, um, yeah. So that's how that big circle came about.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Sure. So tell us about your, you are also in education here, so I'm interested, and the audience may be interested to know, because we're still not at the part where you've written a book.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: we wanna know, when you got here, what did you do? Because now we're, we've taught, we've got beat up by the kindergartners.

We have in first grade, we're fifth grade. We're, we're a professor, we're a administrator. What did you do when you got here?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I came here to be, uh, a principal of a public school,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Okay.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: and I did not know that the school had a history of challenges with black educators. And in fact, there was a report that was written by Dr. Sharon Bailey, who is now an ancestor who wrote about it extensively. And until she wrote that report I had, I didn't realize that that was the experience I had.

So [00:34:00] I came here, you know, I, you know, I had completed my doctorate. I had been doing professional development. So I came here and in fact, I said in the interview, this is what I wanna do. So I came here and I was training my teachers on how to be warm demanders, and they were like, oh, no, honey, no. Mm-hmm.

We're not doing that.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And so within two years I was out of that school.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: mm

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Um, but here's, here's, I almost forgot about this. So the same year that I was no longer a principal at that school, Lisa Del published her book, multiplication Is For White People. And in that book, she doesn't just cite me. She, I had a article out at that point that was published in 2006.

She pulls quotes from the article. She, she uses my whole name, not just the wear and the date behind Bernita Ware says these things and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: And

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: took a,

an educator gave me the book. I did not open the [00:35:00] book. I went to Vail, that Labor Day weekend. I used to go to the jazz fest, went to Vail. A person I knew had the book. They text me. They were like, you're in this book. So I was ready to leave Vail. I was like, wait, I'm in Lisa LPs book.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And so when I got home and that validated me, it was like, you know what?

Lisa work, Lisa Delta thinks your work is valuable

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: and it also let me know, okay, you need to write a book, but I didn't, I didn't know. I didn't know what, I just, I just, okay. Warm demanders. Okay. I know that. Um, then I had the opportunity to do professional development

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: In

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: and in the same district, so I stayed in the district.

I left being a principal.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: can I pause you for a second? It's interesting. you talk about, you were at that school for two years and just like constant pushout of black principals, black administrators, and I'm, I'm pausing for a second because again, like you're here [00:36:00] this whole time you're in Atlanta.

It is welcoming, it is supporting, it's this and this

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Notice how you caught all that? Notice how you caught all that.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: this is episode so my so forth. You don't, and the, the doctorate on racial battle fatigue, like, listen And so yeah, I do. And I wanna pause on that because um, yeah, you are a long way from home here and what support looks like from other black people. And education is different here for, for a lot of us, administration, how, uh, district support black women is really different. And I do wanna pause and say, if you're able, if you feel like it, can you tell us like towards the end of that second year, what was that story like? that a decision that you had to make or was that a decision made by someone else?

How did that go? If you don't mind sharing?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It was absolute trauma.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It was, it was trauma. I, I, I was hot in Atlanta [00:37:00] and I remember thinking, so what happened? I used, I used to be hot, like, like I must be the worst person in the world.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So that, that lived with me for a little while. It was like, oh, I must be awful until I was around a little bit more and I saw other black educators removed from the principalship and I was like, oh, wait a minute.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: This isn't quite just me. And I'm, and, and please, let's be very clear, I was not perfect. Okay.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: sure, sure, sure.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. So, so some of this is me for sure, but I had, I known all that, I would've been like, I'm hot, I'll stay in Atlanta. I, you know, I'll come out here for, for Christmas and see my extended family. I don't, I don't have to, I don't have to live here again. I can stay in Atlanta where it's like, it's wonderful.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: so yeah, that, it was traumatic for me. I, I definitely had to grow and heal from that. Lisa Depas book helped a lot. [00:38:00] And then when I started doing professional development, which was what I always wanted to do,

so Loretta Hammonds came to the school district and I met her and she was talking about warm demander teachers in her talk. And so I was snapping in the back and some of the people I knew, they were like, who is that snapping? I was like, Nita, um, because they knew of my work.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: so I talked to her and she was.

She said to me, you need to write a book. Um, she said, people have built their work off of your work. You need to write a book.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Uh,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And then right after that, I started to do some professional extended professional development with the school. And we started with what ended up being the, the process of the book.

And at the end of the year, I said, I've got the book now. And it took me a little while later to realize had I not come to Denver, I would not have had the book because I would not have known how to take one demanded teachers to a broader audience.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And so it, it all made, [00:39:00] made sense, but it was a, it was a journey there for a minute.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. And I don't know, you know, I don't know how many black women in education kind of come out of this unscathed. I don't know how many of us, even if we retire and it's, you know, it was fine at the end, there's, there's always a big, some something in the middle somewhere where it causes us to stand back and say like, wait a minute, am I in the right spot? Are people right about me? Am I right about myself? Was everybody else who set out So that was good and that was great. Were they lying? Why can't I do it here? And I could do it there. I think that we all

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: All of that.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: and say like, let me evaluate myself. And that's really hard because, you know, in education our validation does come from other people. comes from the student scores, it comes from the parents, you know, little birthday cards and all the things. And so, because a lot of us, our feelings about ourselves and education come from [00:40:00] other people. It can also be torn apart by other people

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: time.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: And I'm sure that's the same in lots of careers, but for, with us working with students so much who are so appreciative, can really give us a, some, I don't wanna say a false sense 'cause that's not fair, but a sense of like, I'm doing great. And then that one or two people, or multiple folks or whatever try to tear us down. It does take all the, the great things we've done sometimes and say, wait a minute, I, I, did I miss something? Right. So yeah. That's something I wanted to kind of pause and think

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: the professional is happening at the same time that you're writing your book?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: No, I had, I was saying, I gotta write a book. I gotta write a book. But I didn't ha, I didn't know what to write. Um, and really what made that all work and get me past all that trauma was I created a training titled Radical Self-Care. I [00:41:00] thought I had a stroke. It was a couple years later after I had left the, um, the principalship.

And that summer, I, I had a job where I didn't work summers. And that summer I literally hit the wall and I, I was like, okay, you gotta go to the doctor. This is serious. You are, you are not. Okay. And because I am the nerd that I am, I wrote a training. So, so as I was recovering, I wrote a training and then a client hired me to do some consulting work, um, with their, um, afterschool program, their leads.

And I said, well, you, I got this new thing. I'm working out. They're like, yeah, do that. Knock stuff out. And so when I did radical self care the first time, um, I was amazed at the response. I thought what I had experienced, the stress, the brain fog, the lack of sleep, like that whole list. I thought it was personal.

I thought it would be nice for them. But they were like, oh, all that list. Yeah, all of that. So that [00:42:00] started it. And it's interesting now because I'm on the board of that afterschool program now.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So that was part of my healing and I also learned what I needed to heal. And then, so the school that I worked with for that year, we started with radicals of care.

And so it is in the process of helping them heal that I continued to heal. And by the end of the year I could see, um, the experiences I had and how they contribute to my wellness and to the creation of the book.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: So Dr. Nita, I wanna pause because you real good at like going past these with a single sentence and she said, and when I had a stroke, and that's when I decided to do a professional development, we gotta back up a little

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Okay. I thought I had a stroke. It wasn't a real stroke,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. But

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: but I.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: think that like what's happening, and I think you and I, when we have our, our little Kiki sessions and we chitchat connect, that's one thing that you and I have talked about is this connection between like racial battle fatigue, experiences of racism, related [00:43:00] stress.

First of all, how that impacts our bodies through racial battle fatigue. And then this need for radical self-care is like how our work connects because there are folks who experience have strokes, think they're having strokes, having panic attacks, things like that because of racialized experiences and. Of course, sometimes they come out on another side and they write a professional development and sometimes they don't.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: They don't?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: yeah, they don't. And so you and I have talked about that so many, like in our, our hangout time about the ways that we have to take care of ourselves

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: don't wanna get to this point

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: No,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: we're on WebMD to

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: no,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: out like,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: no.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: what's happening. And I, I think I, I love that. No, I think, I love that you in your healing, and I'm glad you didn't have a stroke in your healing, that you were like, wait a minute, I have to take care of [00:44:00] myself.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: spread the, like, the

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: gospel about self care?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: and I don't know how many people. it's, I'm gonna speak specifically to black women and about black women. How many black women believe that self-care is possible, let alone radical self-care?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: want you to talk about like radical self-care for a little bit. Because when I help professor development, or no, that's not true.

I do not hold professional development when I hold rest shops in

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. Your work is so, so powerful.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: you. A lot of people don't. Um, I only hear a lot of women who come to the shop. The rest shops 'cause a lot of people. It's just mostly women. I don't have time. I feel guilty when I rest.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: a hardship, so why should I rest?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Resting is People are depending on

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: so I wanna pause right here and just [00:45:00] sit in this for a second. And can you talk about the. Like the, that time where you're writing and like you said, how it was healing for you as it was healing for others.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm. Um, and, and I started teaching radical self-care as a prevention to other people, you know, not hitting the wall like I did. Like I I, it, I was living off five hours of sleep for years. Thought that was normal,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: would have anxiety, dreams. I don't even wanna go into details about. Um, what really caught my attention was one time, you know how you walk in a room, you're like, what did that come of you to get?

And you're like, oh yeah, this time I was like, why am I in this room?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And I was like, oh, this is, this is, this is getting to be serious now.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I was just exhausted. I, I just, I was just fatigued. Um, but I wrote it because I wanted to prevent other people from [00:46:00] having to hit that. And I must have known some kind of way intuitively that it would be beneficial for educators and specifically, you are right.

Uh, in terms of black educators and Latina educators too. I have to get them past, you know, self-care. I used to say self-care is not selfish. And I, I think I've seen you have that somewhere. Um, but re but really get them to understand, know, like for real.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: For

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: have to do this. And then as I continued to do the work, 'cause I wrote that in 2016, so you're not continuing to read and everything.

And when I start learning about neuroplasticity and I became like the brain health nerd, like, don't get me started. And now I tell people, I can teach you how to rewire your brain.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: so I've learned to teach people to do radical self-care. You do that one small step consistently, and in time your brain heals and the neuroplasticity will kick in and say, well, you know what?

We, we could go walking. And I tell [00:47:00] people that, I said, your brain will tell you instead of like, oh no, we don't have time to walk and be like, we could go, we could go for 10 minutes. And so you, you now have this internal cheerleader as, as opposed to internal critic or that voice hand. I, I can't do that.

That's selfish. My family needs me. I can And you, but the number of women and black women

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: who treat it like, that's cute.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: That's real cute. I, I can't do it, but that's, I'm glad for you, you know. That's cute.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: we, we, so, um, Stacy, who I just talked to you about, we started, uh, podcast and pause and Unbook love for black educators and we were building it. And so we're trying to get the word out. And this episode will probably drop in October, 2025. So this, this podcast and pause. It may be when you hear it again, it may be out in the community where it, were open for another session.

But if we're building our first set of sessions, [00:48:00] uh, Stacy's out tall and hall her friends, she's, she's a Delta. She has all these connections. Community, I mean, she's telling everyone 'cause it's on Zoom so anybody can join. she and I were like brainstorming one day said, you know what, uh, I don't think that people really want to heal. She said, this is an opportunity. They talk, they'll come, they'll call me or text, or we'll have conversations and they'll complain and complain. But she's like, I don't think that, and when she's saying people, she's saying the black women that she's talking to, she's like, I don't think they really wanna heal, because here it is this, these sessions, you know, very accessible.

And they're just not even thinking about it. It's like, okay, thank you. I'll think about it. And so I, I think about that a lot

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Outta two.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: like you said, like you just said, oh, that's cute, or that's for someone else, or I know how to, I have good boundaries. And it's beyond that. It's beyond that.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It it's, you know, and one of the things [00:49:00] I, I ask now, are you willing, like, are you, are you, are you willing, like I asked that in in my, in my book and, you know, professional development about teachers becoming warned, manners, but it in, in radicals of care too. Are you willing and what are you will, and what are you willing to do?

Because you've got, you've gotta get to where people make that commitment to do it. And, and again, I'm teaching this one small step most days, not even if it's not perfect, you don't do it every day, but people have to be willing to say, you know what, I, I'm gonna drink just one more cup of water.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: That's right.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Just, just one more.

And with the neuroplasticity, that starts the progression. But people have to be willing. And it breaks my heart when I feel like people are so comfortable with not being okay, that that's a better choice than taking a chance on trying something new [00:50:00] and the possible transformation. Because when, ooh, when you are doing self care for yourself, when you're doing self care, it is not transactional.

It is transformational. It's not like, okay, so I'm gonna drink the water and then I'll later I'll do this for my, like, this is an internal process. It's not this external thing. And so whatever you do for your healing is for your transformation. And the more you do it consistently, it expands the type of transformation you experience, but it has to start with you and that what are you willing to do?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. I wonder how many of us in education are really comfortable with complaining. 'cause everyone's doing it. Everyone's standing around the teacher's lounge.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: a culture

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: It's a the culture of complaining. we got our, I got you girl.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: we.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. I really believe that educators. [00:51:00] Because so many of us are complaining about, I can't, I can't do this. I can't. That it's just like if I choose to go in the other direction and take care of myself, then I won't have anyone to talk to because I'm drinking enough, enough water, not taking off sub plans, I can complain about the sub not having a sub.

I can complain about the pay, I can complain about, if I step back in and choose self and no one else is going in that direction, now

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It is, it's, it's like gossiping. Who will I be friends with?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: That's exactly right.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: It's like that co that culture of gossiping, who will I be friends with if I'm not part of the gossip?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: And so that's why I work with schools. And I and I, I've turned into action research. I have a school, I'm working with NASA Action Research project to really, because the school that I worked with that first year, they made it a part of the school culture.

They kept it going when I wasn't there when the principal met with people, when they did their [00:52:00] observations. Like they talked about self-care. Um, they talked about gratitude. They talked about the things I taught, and so it became part of the school culture and they saw an improvement in school culture.

But you're right, if I decide to be healthy, then when there's donuts in, in, you know, the teacher's lounge, and I said, Hmm, I don't let, let me get a glass of water. I don't, I don't want a donut today. It's like you're saying, I'm, I'm not a part of your community, or I'm better than you because I'm choosing not to have a donut.

Now. It's really like, no, I'm just choosing not to have donut.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: like I would choose not to have a hamburger. I'm just choosing not to have one. I It is, we're still good. I just don't wanna eat that. But it's like, who will you talk to? So you, oh, so you have to get your friends well too.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: And, and, and so this is the thing that's really important. When you talked about self-care, I think about community care and getting your friends well and what if they don't wanna go along? What do you do at the end? Right? And [00:53:00] we have to those conversations with ourselves in and outside of the school building. A lot of us who are tenure 20 years in the same building or in the same district, we can get really clique-ish. all of our friends are in education and that's all we know. And so, yeah. What happens then when nobody wants to go with you and to go by

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I mean, think about other, other situations, even if it's not the cliqueishness of school. You are friends with people. This is what we do on the weekends. I decide I don't wanna do that anymore,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: so,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah, we, we, we, this is a whole different podcast topic. We are as all as always down the road from where we are starting from. I wanna put a pin in this and I want us to come

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: okay.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: have another conversation about this particular topic. And I'm not gonna forget, and you're not gonna forget, will come back and have a conversation about radical self-care and what you've seen in community and what I've seen.

'cause I think it's really, really important. I do want [00:54:00] to our conversation. Um, are no longer teaching in a school district, but you're supporting school districts. us about was it that helped you decide that it was time to still support students? Still support educators, but not in the same way.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So

the opportunity came where the district had won of multiple, like every three years layoffs, and I had navigated all the other ones. And this time I said, no, I'm not. In fact, I was pressured to apply for another job. I was pressured,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: time to go. And so I jokingly said that I wanted to bet on me. I said, I'm gonna bet on black. [00:55:00] Um, and so decided to take the chance on investing in me, investing in my business to be be a full-time consultant.

I did consult discreet consulting discreetly, you know,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Sure, sure.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: but this time I was like, okay, I'm gonna make this a business. I'm gonna write this book. I'm gonna finally get this book done. Um, and I decided to bet on me. And here we are, three years later, the book is done. I have a, a business, you know, as entrepreneur, there's, you know, there it is.

Work to maintain your own business. It's, it's not like you just go, if you just show up, you'll get a check. It's not like having a job. It is, it is you and you maintaining it and you all of that. Um, so I've been doing that and it's been amazing.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. Tell us about your book.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So [00:56:00] the baby, um, this is the book, warm Demander Teachers. Uh, it comes out of the dissertation, the 2006 article that was published and it's still being cited.

When I was looking up, uh, research to support my book, I would find articles and I would read them and I would go, oh, wait, I'm in here. Oh look, that's so nice.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: cool.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: being referenced. Um, it was with the publisher I wanted, which is Corwin, which is also the publisher that, uh, Loretta Hammonds is with.

Um, it was an experience like when I connected with them. The other thing I, I didn't realize at the time, the article, the 2006 article is also published by Corwin, so they could easily look up and see how much I was still being cited and, you know, how popular that article was. So they were always, again, they were always very welcoming, very encouraging, yes, we, you know, we wanna work with you.

Um, and so the book has been out not quite a year [00:57:00] now, but it, it gives, it gives, uh, Zu Hammonds told me one time, it's like a good business card, so it's like, this is what I do. So when I go to school, it's like, this is what I do, this is what we're gonna build from. Um, radical Self-Care is the second chapter.

The first chapter is the introduction. And so my sixth grade teacher and my mother and the community that I was a part of and how I, how I was taught. You know, in my, my school years and the community, the most important part, the community. And so the second chapter is radical self care. And what I tell teachers is you have to get, well first before you even think about being a warm demander teacher, because it is a journey.

Uh, you have to get well first. And in the time that I've been doing work with schools around the book now, you know, now I have lots of new ideas. So, uh, one of the things I'm share sharing with teach schools now is the complexity of warm demanded teacher relationships and the warm demand, and I didn't know this before, but the warm demanded [00:58:00] teacher relationship first is with their self.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: self-care piece. They have to be well first. And so if all those other things we talked about hadn't happened, I wouldn't know that I wouldn't have that for teachers if I hadn't created radical self-care and had been so popular. Um. So many people took it, people took it multiple times.

Um, I stopped counting a few years, even before I became, uh, in my own business. I stopped counting How many people took the workshop when it got to 2000? I feel like we're Yeah, we're, we're there now. Like that's, and it's significantly more than that. And it, it can go anywhere. I've u I've used it in other contexts that were not with classroom teachers.

And so that's the foundation of the work. You have to get wealth first. And so all the work I do with schools, we start with radical self-care and then we continue the work and go into the book study or the school culture, warm demand or teacher [00:59:00] school culture, one demander teacher, one demander leaders.

Um, and so I teach it as a, as a inclusive culture for everybody to be on the same page and everyone to be of support with each other. And, um, so there's eight different interactions that one demander teachers have in terms of relationships with students, and one of 'em is with their colleagues. And knowing when to tap out,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: knowing when to say it.

You know what, I, whatever it is. Remember we talked before about the whole going to the restroom thing

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Oh yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: that came up in a conversation I had at a school recently too, so I'm glad we had that conversation. So I was able to, to like be encouraging about that. But just knowing when you need to say, can you cover for me?

I, I need to run to the restroom, or I need to breathe, or I've, I've kind of hit the wall here. I need to just, I need to go for a walk and just get some neurotransmitters going. I, you know, I need, so it has to be a community. So, you know how we talk about, we, [01:00:00] we can be very clique-ish in schools. We gotta break those cliques at least professionally.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I, I need to be able to ask you to help me in a moment whether we are in the same gossip group or not.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: getting people, well, I also, the goal is also to, is to heal the school c.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah, and I, I wanna reference back the, the story. So, um, that we were just talking about with the restroom. I have a, a virtual assistant named Alicia. Alicia was saying that her, she was driving her son off at school on the first day of school, and she's on the long or picking her son up. She's on the lawn and she's chatting with a para professional that was at the school.

And she was talking about how they had had a professional development week and during professional development week, this as a group, as a whole school, they were trying to figure out how to have more comradery amongst the, the staff. And so someone said that they should do a hydration [01:01:00] challenge to make sure that people stay fully hydrated.

And the administration said, well, if we do that, then. means that you all will need to have like relief to go to the bathroom, like somebody has to watch your class. So we are not gonna do that. And so Dr. Nita and I were talking about how we have to take care of ourselves in spite of, right. And we can't assume that anyone else, administration or otherwise is going to be looking out for our health. and I said that, and we, I think you said it or I said that if the school together came and brainstormed, they could have figured out a

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: to make it work. And so she and I, Dr. Nita and I spent about 15 minutes on that call just brainstorming all the ways

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: How to solve it.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: yeah. How to solve the problem.

But there wasn't even a, the way that my VA was describing this story, there wasn't even time for them to come together and problem solve. It was just like a shut it down, [01:02:00] she, which she did say that the para said it impacted like the, um, the energy in the room. That it was shut down and then they moved on to something else.

And so this, this idea of taking care of self and not assuming that other people, no matter how much you love them or love the community, are gonna take care of yourself. You have to take care of yourself first.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: So the beauty of that conversation that next week I did radical self-care with the school. The question of drinking water came up and because we'd had that conversation and the principal was in there, I turned to the principal. I said, you know, I bet that's a problem we can solve.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I said that, so when I go back, I'm going back to see them later on this month.

I'm gonna say so because I don't wanna step in like, this is what you need to do. Because we had already problem solved. I wanted to give them a,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: We already figured the shit out.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: yeah, we already got this figured out, but I'm gonna give you a minute to, to figure it out. But it was, it was so that conversation, that comment ended with like, the possibility of how we solve it [01:03:00] as opposed to we are not doing that.

And the other thing I talked about is, one of the things we were kidding about a lot at this school is the energy of October. And I, and I parallel it to like riding up a roller coaster and like it's, it's going up the hill. And I made the comment about is that energy in any type of correlation to your, you've been back in school a few months now.

All the hydration you did over the summer has now dropped. And so now your hydration is down. But the energy of the school is. What would we change on that? I'm sorry, I got real nerdy there.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: You good.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: How would we change the energy if people were hydrated? Would we flatten that curve? A little bit of the stress of schools going into the winter months.

If people could one, drink more water and keep their brains hydrated and two, know they could count on somebody for a quick break. Quick break. So when I go back, I'm gonna say, so how we solve that, [01:04:00] because it's a conversation that needs to happen and, and because of our conversation, I was able, I I wasn't just like, I don't know, when the question came up, I looked at the princip.

I said, I bet that's something that can be solved.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: I love that. Oh, then keep, keep me updated. I wanna know what happened.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes. Well, we, we talked about, we're gonna talk about that some more. So becau but again, see how powerful our community is. When I go do my work, I'm better prepared. That's why we need community.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Um, we gonna be all day.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I just, I just took, I'm sorry, I just took you all off. Sorry.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: you are fine. You're fine. We gonna be all day. You and I chit chatting, so I, I think, um, my next question is, uh, in the same conversation about article of self-care for you, what does it mean to be well?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I am so grateful that I teach radical self care and I teach it as much as I do, and I, [01:05:00] I don't want it to get stale on me. So I keep, I continually read things and learn things and try things. Um, something I heard just the other day, um, was, and I'm gonna share this in my trainings, I'm not preaching at people about radical self care because they're not doing it right.

I'm, I'm pre, I'm preaching for myself too. And so, because I've got all these things in my head. Stuff just kicks in

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: that negative thought comes in. Uh, I know how to go, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're not running the day. Uh, when I get up and I'm feeling like, oh, it's not a happy day. Like, all right, what am I grateful for?

Let's start that. And so things, you know, there's this automatic type of response that I have. I am absolutely human. I'm doing this work. I do this work every day. I am not perfect, but I, I have a, it's, it's not as long a delay in knowing, oh, what do I need to do [01:06:00] now? And so I can catch myself faster. Um, sleep is my thing.

I even now, I mean, I'm way past the five hours, thank goodness. Uh, but I still work on sleep. I still work on how, um, and I call it movement, exercise, and radical selfcare. 'cause it's gotta be inclusive. Um, you know, because you're at the movement stage is like you and your sofa really close and you need to break it with yourself.

And I talk about that, like needing to break it with. Uh, and I'd start, yeah, we, we, we we're good now, but we broke up. We broke up. We don't spend as much time together as we used to. And, but, but I started with if you were watching commercial television, when the commercial comes on, get up, get up and, and put a load of laundry in the dish in a, on a washer, get up and go to like mo get up and move and to do that frequently.

After a while, I found that I was paying less attention to television, so it had to be something I could like come in and outta the room and still ca pick up the, the plot.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Mm-hmm.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: [01:07:00] Um, but that's how I, I broke over myself. So it is, it's movement exercise, you know, and in Denver, you know, we got people like running marathons out of boredom on Wednesday, but every, I mean, on the weekend, but not everybody is running marathons in Denver.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Facts.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: so I had to make it accessible from that perspective. And so all the different things I know I do. Like, I'll enjoy food and I'll know, okay, that's enough. Let's, let's stop that now. We're not gonna eat bread every day. Um, and so I just, I just know the things, but wellness for me, the clarity, the ability to be in environments where people want to challenge my ideas or my thoughts, or just the fact that I'm a black woman talking with authority and how I, I'm not triggered by that.

Where before I was very much triggered by that. To me, that's the best example of being, well, I can be in any context and not be triggered. [01:08:00] Uh, can, can speak with, continue to speak with authority because I am an authority. Um.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Period. Don't period. Yes.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I am.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Um, and so, but to do that like calmly with Grace, like, like where before I had to like come in, like now it's like, but I am like for real. Um, to, to just be able to navigate all the things that are going on right now that could crush us and to be able to stay well, um, is intentional. It's, it's something I have to work at, but I'm grateful I have it.

I'm so, I'm so grateful. I thought I had a stroke back then and that I decided not to just go to a doctor and take a pill,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: to really work on it and share with other people and encourage other people [01:09:00] and continue to read and continue to learn. Um, I'm so grateful

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: always a

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: I know how to be well

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: other people to be.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah. Thank you. Last question. Is there a black educator or educators that you would like to shout out?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes. Um, she is with a school district in this area. I hired her as a kindergarten teacher. She is now an administrator in a school.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Oh, wow.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Her, this is her second year. Her first year I did something sweet for her, and if you ever talk to her, I'll let her tell you the story. Um, her name is, they, they call her Miss O.

Her name is Chi Oye. Let me tell you, when I observed her teach in first grade, I mean kindergarten, those children were doing what I call cultural responsive inquiry in my book. They were leading the conversation. They were asking each other questions. She was the facilitator. She [01:10:00] was stepping back and they were, they, I don't know what they were talking about, but the students.

Kept the conversation going and asked each other questions and stayed at their point and just, just, it blew me away. But when I first met her, we felt something when I was at the job fair, we both were like, um, so she is amazing. She's

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah.

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: absolutely amazing. And again, she has that intuitive, culturally nuanced way of doing the work.

So yes, I would love it if you would talk to her.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Awesome. All right. Uh, Mrs. O, we coming for you? Um, all right. So folks, if you are interested in Dr. Fe's book, uh, the Warm Demander, it up again for us. Warm demander teachers. you can find it online. It's, you wanna get your hands on it. We've [01:11:00] already talked about tta Hammond giving much, many props. where can people find you if they want to reach out and, and maybe get you into their building or

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: like how can they get connected with you?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: they can find me on my website. Um, woman demander teachers.com is one of the pages on my website and nita ware phd.com. And both places you can find me and would love to talk to everyone about the work that I do, because this is what I do. This is what I, this is my joy in life. Um, and creating and supporting more schools and more teachers and more leadership that supports all of our students that is inclusive to students, that teaches them to fly.

Like it's my purpose on.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Yeah,

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: yes, I am accessible and would love a conversation about how we take it to ne to the next level. And then you and I have some more conversations to do too.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: all

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: There's some things [01:12:00] down the road for us. I don't know what it is, but there's something there.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Absolutely. right folks. You heard it here. Dr. Nita, thank you so much for

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Thank you.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: Of course, of course. Uh, you all take care of yourselves. Drink your water, take your, get your exercise, eat some fiber, clean your glasses, right?

franita-ware--phd_1_09-07-2025_101906: Breathe.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_09-07-2025_101906: breathe, get some sleep. Breathe deeply. Um, hug yourself, love yourself, and we'll talk to you later.

All right, peace. Um, hug yourself, love yourself, and we'll talk to you.

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