Episodes

In this episode of, The Exit Interview, Enola Garland found her way into the classroom as an early childhood educator. She quickly realized that working with three and four-year-olds was what she was meant for. After years in the ECE space and with COVID-19's impact on her students, colleagues, and herself along with racism-related stress in the workspace after the murder of George Floyd she knew she had to leave. Listen as Enola shares her story and what she is doing now that continues to support early childhood educators across Colorado.

In this episode of Exit Interview, Dr. Asia Lyons reflects on her personal and professional journey as an educator. She shares her experiences growing up in Detroit, her initial pursuit of engineering, and the pivotal moments that led her to teaching. Dr. Lyons discusses her time in Colorado’s Cherry Creek School District, where she developed a social justice curriculum and faced significant racism, including resistance from parents and administration. The episode highlights her struggles with racial battle fatigue, the impact on her family, and the eventual decision to leave classroom teaching. Dr. Lyons also talks about founding Lyons Educational Consulting and the Black Educator Wellness Cohort, emphasizing the importance of supporting Black educators and sharing their stories. The conversation is both candid and inspiring, offering insights into the realities of education, systemic barriers, and the pursuit of personal and community healing.

Nedra Rudolph is one of thousands of educational professionals that many of us see but never truly SEE. Having worked in Title 1 schools, as a Dean of Students, a paraprofessional, and a family liaison. These professionals are categorically invaluable, and grossly undercompensated. She had a great situation, but like in so many situations, when leadership changes, so does culture. Never was the old saying "sometimes it's your own people" more true than in this situation, when a fellow person of color perpetrated White supremacy. After a painful journey, Nedra was able to leave her position with her head held high. She still gets to work with children daily, and has found new joy in her work.

In this episode, the hosts interview Crystal Gillis, an educator whose journey spans from recording engineering to teaching and coaching in the Cherry Creek School District. Crystal shares her experiences as a Black woman educator, detailing the challenges she faced, including lack of support, racial battle fatigue, and systemic inequities within the school system. She discusses her transition from teaching and coaching to becoming deeply involved in equity work, advocating for minoritized youth, and eventually leaving the district due to persistent complacency and lack of meaningful change. Crystal highlights the importance of authentic support for both students and teachers of color, the need for action over rhetoric in equity work, and the power dynamics that often hinder progress in educational spaces. She also shares her current work with YAS PPA (Young Aspiring Americans for Social Political Activism), an organization focused on youth voice, healing, and social activism, and …

Scholar, Author, Entrepreneur, and Educator Desmond Williams has been there, done that. A talented and effective classroom teacher, he quickly moved up the ranks to become a building leader. But even as a principal, Desmond was not achieving the impact he wanted to. He found himself in frequent conflict with fellow leaders and gained clarity. That sense of clarity has manifested in his DEI firm Nylinka, a book, The Burning House, in which he echoes Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s question about racism as a system that perhaps African Americans should try to escape, and frequent speaking engagements and training. Desmond shares his story, questions the notion of Racial Battle Fatigue, and gets out the receipts. Do not miss this one!

Branta Lockett moved through her educational odyssey at the highest levels. W.E.B. DuBois would have absolutely drafted her for his Talented Tenth All Star Team. Highly Gifted and Talented, International Baccalaureate, Brown University, she brought her sterling credentials to Denver, hoping to be the difference for all students, especially Black students. Her first two years as a Denver teacher were, simply put, “great.” But by year three, things began to unravel. She witnessed disproportionate disciplinary actions taken against Black boys. Still new to the work, she became a voice of advocacy for students and community. Her evaluation scores took a jarring dip. She changed roles, and found no support in any of them. Between COVID-19 and anti-Black dynamics within the union, she took the leap. The 5280 Freedom School, inspired by the Civil Rights era’s Mississippi Freedom Schools, launched first as a summer program. After having their charter initially rejected, they are poised …

Jacci tells us her story of coming full circle. With her love for whom we in education consider as “littles,” she tells her journey as a childcare center owner who, with a heart for doing more for her community, begins her work as a Diversity Equity and Inclusion Director in a Denver Metro Area organization. Listen in as Jacci describes her story and advice for Black folks in the early learning space.

Arvian Harper is a “Denver Public Schools lifer.” A graduate of the hallowed halls of East High School, she received a full ride engineering scholarship, later changing to pre-med. Like so many of us, she heard the call to the classroom, and she heeded, teaching Early Childhood Education, becoming a Team Lead and eventually moving into leadership. After a series of difficult challenges–a violent incident at the school, a strike, COVID-19 and a racial reckoning, she began to reflect on the Racial Battle Fatigue she had experienced. As she began to peel back the layers of trauma, she realized “There’s a whole person in there.’ Since her healing journey began, she founded Awakening Cafe and has entered a consulting role with none other than our own Dr. Asia Lyons. Healing is possible.

After a turbulent year locally and nationally, Dr. Asia Lyons and Kevin Adams are back with your Back to School shopping list. They break down issues facing educators of color and the communities they serve as super-producer Gerardo Muñoz sits in the virtual producer’s chair! Asia discusses life after PhD matriculation, Kevin shares the trials and tribulations of the now-completed Master Agreement contract negotiations in Denver Public Schools, and we evaluate the way forward for teachers of color. Should they follow Dr. Asia, our pedagogical Harriet Tubman, to liberation? Will Kev teach forever? Does Gerardo have the attention span to make this interview pop?

When a former director of equity in a school district joins our podcast you know it’s gonna be good.  Stacey Brandon shares what led her to become a social worker in a Denver Metro school district, her journey to becoming director of their equity department, and consequently the decision she had to make realizing that it was time to move on. Enjoy another great episode!

Another fire episode!  This time we are speaking to Dr. Jeanette Patterson, a former principal who now finds herself supporting the youth of the Denver Metro Area in a whole new way.  Tune in as Dr. Patterson shares her education journey, what she thinks school districts can do to support educators, what’s bringing her joy these days, and her plans for the future.

Since last season, on the Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black educators we have brought you stories that are heart-wrenching, painful, and traumatic. Examples of racial battle fatigue, professional violence and PTSD, which, even though most have experienced a measure of healing, or begun that healing journey, are difficult. In some cases, Black classroom teachers depart the classroom to make a wider impact. This was the case for Dr. William Anderson, History teacher extraordinaire, who was just minding his own business, working on his doctorate, ready to return to the classroom for the 2021-2022 school year when he was tapped to take over the Teacher Education Program at the University of Denver, the first Black man to step into that role. Dr. Anderson knew this was an opportunity to impact the profession in a more powerful way, and went on a journey to make it happen. This is a provocative episode, and we encourage you to put on your intersectional lens as you digest this in…

On December 21, Denverite broke the story that legendary community leader and Montbello/Far Northeast Warriors Coach Tony Lindsay, Sr. would not be invited back to coach football for the newly reunified Montbello High School football program. Despite a winning record that included a recent state championship, building leadership chose not to bring him back. Coach Lindsay is more than a football coach, and much more than an X’s and O’s guy. He is a mentor, a friend, an elder, and a leader in his community since he began coaching nearly three decades ago. A onetime NFL player who played professionally in Canada, Coach Lindsay’s reputation is sterling in his community. Asia and Kevin sit with him and hear his story. He shares his emotional journey as he recounts times that he was all some of his players had, and the outcry since the announcement has been deafening. In a time when the Far Northeast community needs every hand on deck to unite the community, this will prove a difficul…

Michael Diaz-Rivera was a brilliant and respected teacher with a reputation for empowering and inspiring his Black and Latinx students. He rose quickly to prominence for his unapologetic radical love for his community and our children. A frequent advocate and organizer for his professional association, school, and district, Michael was featured in local stories across the city for his tireless advocacy and sacrifice for his communities. Things went south, as they often do for Black educators. His outspoken nature landed him under thee microscope and he found his former allies turning from him. He departed teaching this summer. The classic Lauryn Hill lyric “ya might win some, but ya just lost one” springs to mind. Michael will be okay. Maybe even better. But will we?

Asia and Kevin’s interview with Dr. William Smith of the University of Utah were so saturated with wisdom that we returned him for part II! Dr. Smith shares his wisdom in this conversation, doing a deep dive into Racial Battle Fatigue. He discusses a litany of topics, including his rebuttal of the notion that Racial Battle Fatigue is analogous to post-traumatic stress disorder and the various manifestations of RBF, behavioral, psychological, and physiological. He reveals that addressing racism as Black educators and their communities experience it requires an honest look back over centuries, as opposed to reading a book or having a community circle in professional development. Get out your notebooks; Dr. Smith is going to take you to school with this one

Equity is the goal for nearly every diverse school district in the country. As the ripple effects of generational trauma and systemic oppression continue to be felt in communities of color, especially Black and Brown communities, districts like the Denver Public Schools have created positions and offices of equity, inclusion, or both. Dr. Darlene Sampson, equity specialist coordinator at the Western Educational Equity Assistance Center and a clinical field faculty in the Department of Social Work at Metropolitan State University of Denver, was once the director of Culturally Responsive Education in Denver Public Schools, bringing with her three decades of experience to a vitally important office, especially as the district sought to end generational inequity and trauma within the school system. In 2006 she stepped into the position, confident and excited to begin the work that not only was she was she passionate about, she had lived it, growing up in Pueblo, Colorado where “there w…

This is a real special episode of the Exit Interview! Asia and Kevin talk with Dr. William A. Smith, professor of Education and Ethnic Studies at the University of Utah. Dr. Smith, who developed some of the most profound research around the concept of Racial Battle Fatigue, shares his research, insights and experiences tracking this phenomenon. In this profound and wide-ranging conversation, Dr. Smith discusses a veritable library of topics, so many that we decided to expand this conversation to two parts (Part II will be out this summer–stay tuned!). He shares his perspectives on the positioning of school leaders and teachers in regard to revolutionary action. He shares his thoughts on Black representation in film as a pacifying force. He names the genocidal actions taken against Black people both past and present. Throughout this conversation with this next level scholar, the learning is strong, the struggle In contextualized, and the inspiration is total. Tune in!

Welcome to Episode 4 of the Exit Interview with Asia Lyons and Kevin Adams! This week we hear Shalelia Dillard share her story. It is a similar refrain for Black educators who have experienced institutional alienation and rejection within the education system. We invite you to listen and take in her story of optimism, belief in schooling as an equalizer and in her own brilliance and talents to provide a quality education for children generally, only to see her confidence and professionalism come under attack by the same forces that permeate our system. But, as we have seen during the life of this podcast, the process has been liberatory while still painful. Shalelia has discovered that most dangerous of discoveries: that it is possible to continue to be an educator without teaching in a school. She shares her inspirational path and reminds us of what it means to be not an industry artist, but an artist in the industry.

Being a Black educator in the American system of schooling will test the faith of the strongest. In this powerful episode, Doctoral candidate Donna Druery (who has her defense the day after this episode!) shares the long journey through education that ultimately ended with her departure. She shares upsetting experiences, ranging from the hostile to the absurd. An excellent educator once highly recruited and touted as exceptional in her context, she experienced what so many Black educators experience. Her professionalism was not simply questioned, but outright attacked. She was the subject of gossip among White teachers. For over a decade she found herself in a textbook abusive relationship with her job. At times, she felt that “we were turning a corner” only to find herself attacked again. Listeners will find resonance with Donna’s story. The “constant strategizing” simply to be heard in her community the physical manifestations of her racial battle trauma. Through it all Donna’…

Analise Harris embodies Black genius, Black ingenuity, and a resilience. Always socially conscious and connected to her community, Analise entered the education system through alternative means after studying sociology in college. Having worked with the NAACP and other advocacy organizations, we in education were bless to have her join our ranks and work with children every day. She was impactful immediately and beloved by her students and parent community. Then, as occurs so often with Black women teachers, things went south. The gossip. The microaggressions that became outright hostility. In a wrenching conversation that lays bare the pain shouldered by Black women educators, Analise shares in stark and unapologetic detail her harrowing journey from star teacher to persona non grata. Even today, she expresses bewilderment at the ways in which she was treated, as she re-lives the trauma of being run out of the classroom.But she never wavered in her commitment, her goals, and her c…

The Exit Interview premieres with the story of Sataira Douglas. When she entered the teaching game, Sataira was a highly regarded rising star. In a profession that struggles to recruit, let alone retain, Black teachers, Sataira was sought after by multiple school districts. The situation decayed quickly. Microaggressions and macroaggressions. Gaslighting. Frozen out by colleagues. Rumors. Blamed for colleagues' health problems. Invisible labor. The stress on family and community members who watched her struggle, and still held her head high. Belittled publicly in front of colleagues. And still, Sataira came to work. Told herself, “It could be worse.” Worried what would happen to her students if she left. Staying in a community of parents and children with whom she felt a bond. Hold your head down. Just do your job. And yet, “I knew I was going to quit by October.” But through the pain and professional harm done to her, Sataira found a way to rise. To discover her power. To …