The Cost of Perfect Attendance with Whitney Tolliver

The Cost of Perfect Attendance with Whitney Tolliver

[00:00:00]

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_112916: All right folks. Welcome back to the exit interview, a podcast for Black educators. It's me, your host, Dr. Asia, and I back. Now, before we start, I'm gonna say I've been waiting for this interview for a minute.

whitney-tolliver_1_12-16-2025_122916: It.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_112916: I have been waiting for this for a minute. Whitney Tover and I met through Mia. Now by now, by now y'all should know Mia Street because I have shouted her out on several folks interviews.

Right, because she's connecting left and right. Um, me with folks. But waiting for this interview. Whitney and I met a while back. I think you were still, you were still in the administration space. Is that correct?

whitney-tolliver_1_12-16-2025_122916: I think I was like maybe a month or a couple of weeks removed from my AP position, I had just quit my job

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_112916: And I was like, we getting on the show. And that was how long ago sis?[00:01:00]

whitney-tolliver_1_12-16-2025_122916: about a year and a half, almost two years ago. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_112916: So let me let y'all know out here in these streets, I am very committed. So, um, welcome to the show, Whitney. Tyler, tell us a little bit about yourself. Glad you're here.

whitney-tolliver_1_12-16-2025_122916: Hello everyone. So my name is Whitney Tover as Asia just mentioned. I am a Wichita, Kansas native. So you know, like Dorothy, I click my heels three times and I'm home. Um, I moved to the Dallas area in 2014, I believe. Um, it was like right after my mother passed away and I was like, I need something, something new.

I need some new scenery. And it was probably the best decision I ever could have made. Um, moving to Dallas, I, um, worked in a couple of different districts and kind of navigated, um, through the educational system and, um, here I am today. What some of the things, um. Let me see some of the things that I love to do.

'cause you said, uh, in this portion [00:02:00] we are not talking all about, you know, the

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_112916: We are not giving all the details just

whitney-tolliver_1_12-16-2025_122916: right. See, lemme, lemme give you the nitty gritty about what I like to do on my pastime. I like to take long walks. Uh, just kidding. No, no. Kind of not. I do. Um, I, I enjoy nature, right? Music is my thing. Um, I enjoy cooking.

I'm all about being hospitable and loving on people. Um, that's kind of my superpower. So yeah, I like to just chill. You know, I'm almost 40. So in this auntie era of my life that I'm entering into, I am chilling out here

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_112916: love it. And, uh, Whitney and I, so my maiden name out there folks is Tover. And so that was the first thing I said to her when we met a while back was like, let's figure out if we're related in some capacity. Yeah. Right. And, and we couldn't figure out, we couldn't trace it back to the, the same plantation, but. But you know, we've been kicking it ever since and we have like very similar work when it comes to healing [00:03:00] and wellness. And she'll tell you a little bit about her work for sure. But let's go ahead and jump into the interview. So first question, tell us about your journey into education. How did you know that education was for you?

whitney-tolliver_1_12-16-2025_122916: So education was not my first choice. I felt like education came and chased me down. I, my undergrad degree is in integrated marketing communications. And so, um, right out the, the gate, I always wanted to do events, so everyone, um, that was getting the same degree as myself, they wanted to go work for a PR firm or marketing.

And I'm like, I just wanna do events. And so every time that I. Would attempt to find an event, uh, you know, position or I thought I was gonna go through a hotel in like the hospitality department to plan conferences and weddings and those sorts of things. And it's like every single door was closed and, um, the door that was open always was working [00:04:00] with kids.

And it was like I always found myself, um, doing something, whether it, you know, it was in a family event where I'm. Uh, facilitating something for the kids to, you know, make hot cocoa at the Christmas events. Or, um, you know, somebody's kids wanna come and I'm taking them to, to go do an event. I'm working with the kids at church and so the children and the relationships, they always found me.

Um. And I was working when I graduated from my undergrad, uh, with my undergrad degree. I was working as, um, I also went back to school to become a cosmetologist. And, um, while I'm working as a cosmetologist, I was also working as a substitute teacher. Well, I really enjoyed. Those babies. And it's like every time I would go into a school, I was only in there for one day and I'm like, but I wanna build these relationships.

So then I, um, went from being a substitute teacher to a paraprofessional. And while I was working as a [00:05:00] paraprofessional, like this was nobody but God. I went to a, um, PD training and the university that I had graduated with, they were launching this new program master's program where. You could work as a paraprofessional and if you had a degree in something else other than education, you could go back and get your master's degree in early childhood education while using your paraprofessional work as your student teaching.

So

you

wouldn't have like quit your job and like be without pay, like it was all wrapped into this package and. I mean, when I tell you, like, I still can remember the day when I was sitting in that PD session and heard, you know, uh, the presenter get up and speak about this program. And I was like, this is like, this is a prayer that's being answered.

Like, and I don't even think I had spoke the prayer out to anybody, but it was like God knew and, uh, you know, went and had an interview and applied for the, for the program, got in. And [00:06:00] that's where, you know, the education program, uh, or education started for me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_112916: Oh I love that. And I'm curious, you know, you went to school, like you said, to get in your, for your bachelor's and one topic moved on cosmetology, you're para. Now we're back until we get our masters. So then my question is, when you were going through these different, um, programs and like switching it up, what was the conversation with your family and community?

Were they like, oh, this is great, or like, pick a job and sit with it? What, what was that like?

whitney-tolliver_1_12-16-2025_122916: Ma'am. So I, for whatever reason I've had, what did they say, 50 11, I've had about 50 11 jobs, um, and different. Different parts of my life. And what's crazy is I have many different talents and some things don't go together and they don't make sense. And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know where this came from, but my dad, I remember him being like. my mom really, she was like, okay, you need to utilize this [00:07:00] undergrad degree. Like we didn't spend all this money on you getting this degree. Like you need to utilize this degree. Well, doing hair was something that I had always done as like a hobby. Like I was always doing my friend's hair. I mean, I could do a mean flat iron now they call it a silk press, honey.

That was my thing. And so going to cosmetology school that just made sense. Like, I even had a auntie that was like, I thought you were gonna go go to culinary school. Because like I said, I've had many different talents and abilities that don't all go together, but there's no way I can be a chef and a cosmetologist and a, you know, a educator like all these different things and do them well.

Right? So I've had different parts of my life where I've been able to explore. Um, so I said all that to say the conversations. While all of these things were going on, while I'm making these transitions, my parents didn't understand,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah. So, um, I had a auntie that was like, I thought you were gonna go into culinary. Um, so, you know, there were so many [00:08:00] different, um, gifts and talents. There are so many gifts and talents that, um, I've been blessed to have, but I just can't do everything well. Um, so to answer your question, um, while I was going, um, through these, uh, different, uh, professions and transitions, my parents, no, they were not with it, they were trying to figure out what is Whitney doing?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: utilize that undergrad degree, um, that we paid for, but then at the same time. God has blessed them to see, or God has blessed my dad. My mom is deceased, but God has blessed my dad to see like how it all, uh, comes together and makes sense, right. So I said all that to say like, after I got my, uh, master's degree in teaching, wasn't quite with it at first 'cause like this is more money.

But then I, when I became a teacher, it's like, now you know, my daughter, she a teacher now, you know?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: course.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah. You know, and then when I became an ap, he tell him like, I'm going back home. And he is like, now you know, my daughter and you [00:09:00] know, she a principal now Daddy, I'm not a principal, ma, I'm an assistant principal.

You know, that's two different things. But so very, very proud. And even when I made the, um, step to quit my job and, and, and leave, um, education, I didn't tell my dad right away. Um. When I finally told him what was so dope about this whole situation is like God allowed me to see my dad's, um, love and covering for me

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: because my dad knew how miserable I had become. Um, like it would be times where I would call my dad up and I'm just crying,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: crying all evening and he's like, I need you to calm down because like you were about to have a nervous breakdown. Like, I would hang up the phone with him and still continue to cry and, you know, my whole attitude and everything.

I was just like, not, I was a different person. So he could see how unhappy I was even before I even told him I unhappy. I was. So when I [00:10:00] went to go tell him that I'm no longer an assistant principal anymore, and I'm, I'm, you know, not working in education, looking for a different job, um, he was disappointed. Um. I even know if I would say that he was disappointed. My daddy is very much so like a, you grab a job that you get benefits on and you have a pension and you

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: The good government job.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yes

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yes.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: that was his mindset of like, okay, you need to be making sure you have some benefits and this, that, and the other.

So that was his mindset and then making sure I had a good salary to go along with it. But he wasn't mad and he completely understood I left the job. And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: made me feel covered. You know, I didn't

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: man, like, to get his approval to know that I'm enter entering this entrepreneurial space that was just like all the joy, all the, the love and joy that I needed.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. Thank you so much for, for answering that question, and we'll probably talk a little bit more about that in our, you know, this, that, a couple questions from now. [00:11:00] So kind of going back a little bit, you talked about being like, I was a teacher, did an ap. Tell us about your teaching, um, journey. Tell us about your AP journey.

We wanna know all the parts.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah, um, I love the babies. I know we have a lot of folks out there that don't quite understand, like you work with kindergarten like that. Those are my babies. I taught first grade, I taught kindergarten and third grade, and the last year when I taught third grade, I had a chance to have those babies twice.

So I had those babies when they were in kindergarten, and then I had them when they were in third grade. And so was like the dopest experience because they already knew me, they knew my personality, they know, knew my, my love for 'em, the parents that, um, I had, they already knew, you know, how I was and how I ran my classroom.

And so that just strengthened their relationship even more. Um, when I became an assistant principal, um, I. So

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Ho, ho. Hold that [00:12:00] thought. 'cause I see you. Why you, you, you. So on the exit interview, we need all the details. So you just said, I, I, I taught this and I taught that. Then there was How long did you teach? Teach? Where did you teach? Yeah. We, we are nosy on the exit interview.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: noy. Okay. I gotta, I gotta dig a little deeper.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: know about the folks, like the mentors, folks that supported you some wild times.

We wanna know all those things.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: times.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Let me go back and dig a little deeper. So,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yes.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I first moved here, um, to Dallas, um, so I was a substitute and a paraprofessional in, uh, Kansas.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: when I moved to Dallas and I started working for a charter school, um, and they brought me in as a resident teacher. So basically what that role was, um. To summarize it, I was like an in-house sub. Um, and so I would go in and fill in when needed, when need be. Um, it was really a cool role 'cause I got a chance to see, um, what was going on all over the building plus work with kids at

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: [00:13:00] Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: So it was really, really cool. And so I did that for, um, half a semester, or half a school year rather. And then from there, then I got my, uh, job as a first grade teacher. And it was, it was really, really dope. That was probably like my hardest year because you are trying to navigate a full classroom. And I think I had like 26 kids, like, uh,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Oh yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: into a classroom. It was not a big classroom. I had kids sitting at my teacher table, like that was their permanent desk because it was just so many kids. Um, it was probably one of the funnest years that I had. I can still remember like. Some of my students and like their personalities, and I mean, they may have been the students that gave me the most trouble, but it was like they were the ones that, you know, were the closest to me. Like it

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: it was a dope experience.

And that was a time where [00:14:00] I got to experience the load of education

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: and that made me, I can remember, so you asked for the, for all the, all the

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I, I can be a workaholic because I, I like to pour my all into whatever it is that I'm doing because I wanna do it with excellence. I'm learning that I can't do it with perfection, but I can do it with excellence. And so I would take stuff home. I mean, I'm getting there early, I'm working all day and then I'm trying to take stuff home. Well, all I was thinking about was work. There was one day that I came home I'm clicking on the lights. I'm. Light's not coming on. It's a little warm in, in, in the apartment. I'm like, okay, what's going on? I did not pay my electric bill. Not 'cause I didn't have the money. It was not on, um, you know, automatic withdrawal. Um, I didn't, I just, I, I kept [00:15:00] seeing the notices, but you know how you're like, I'm gonna get to it. I'm gonna

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yes,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: gonna get to it. I never got to it. And baby, this was the day. This

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: they got, they got to you.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: baby that got to me and I, I have always been a lover of ice cream. And so that's like my, I don't wanna, I don't know if it's self, I say self-care now. I probably need to like lay out, I know I need to lay off the ice cream, but that was like, I had just bought me some ice cream. I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Oh no.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: go home, take me a bath, eat me some ice cream and do some more work. Ma'am, had to go get a hotel that night. Because I didn't have any electricity and that ice cream melted. you know what I, I decided not to do that night was work. I was like, I am putting work before my own needs

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: like, what,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: know, work is going to be there. Work can wait. And so that was kind of like some first aha moments of like this whole work life balance.

I'm not gonna say that it got corrected then,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Sure.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: was probably the, the [00:16:00] beginning of the, you know, of it. But, um, so yeah, that was, that was that first job. And because that workload was so intense, I decided to transition into an ISD down here. So in Texas we have ISDs and we have charter schools,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: And what's the, what does ISD stand for?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: uh, independent school district.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Thank you.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Mm-hmm. And. One of the things moving from Kansas where we only have like one school district and then moving to um, a metroplex where you have hundreds of school districts is you have to find the right fit. Like what's the culture that fits with me? And so I didn't necessarily feel like that charter school was the right fit. Um, then I transitioned to the ISD well, I don't know that that was the right fit either. Um, I can remember the orientation that we went to. Uh, first day before we even got started, the principal told us [00:17:00] we couldn't take days off. And she's like, you know, I just lost my mom and I just lost my dad and we buried them and I didn't have to take any days off.

So if I didn't have to take off days off, you don't need to take days off. So you need to go and get your vitamins and whatever to make sure. That, you know, your immune system is right and that everything is together so that you don't have to take days off. And so I'm young, impressionable, and so remember I left that orientation and I went to Whole Foods my dad calls me up and he is like, whatcha doing?

Whatcha doing with, I'm like, I'm in the store. You know, getting, getting some vitamins. Well, I haven't been like, I'm not like a, a vitamin taker, you know, I'm trying to be better, better. But at the time I definitely was, that was not something I'm like, yeah, I'm taking this supplement and this supplement. He was like, you're doing what? yeah, like I, this new job, this principal said days off. Like we have to be there every single [00:18:00] day. And so my dad, who has gotten perfect attendance on his job, like he's all about being punctual, like you gotta be there before time to be on time, like all of that. He was like, no ma'am, they have given you days off and if you need to take a day off, you will be taking a day off. And. Fast forward to, I can remember I tried to follow the rules of like what my principal's rules were. 'cause that was not a district rule.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Wait a minute. We can't fast forward. We gotta rewind

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: I was waiting for you to finish this so I can come in.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Uhhuh.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: The level of toxicity in education and the fact that this principle stood up.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: And felt with their whole chest

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Whole

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: that that was something that was okay.

And now on the back end, I'm sure you're thinking wild, but like you said, this person knew [00:19:00] that they had younger folks are working and they're just trying to please. And if they're in a, if they themselves are in an older generation, perfect attendance, we to keep showing and to pass that down

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: is so harmful.

And that's how so many of us who are in the spaces of supporting educators like you and I are, we have to undo all of that,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yep.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: all of that toxic work culture that is in the name of excellence, that's in the name of the, for the kids.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: On top of the things that our parents, like you just said a little bit about, they have the things that they've put into us.

Then we go into a workplace and they're like, yeah, double down on what their parents. And then people burn up, they get sick, they quit, they push off appointments and end up finding out they have cancer.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: On,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Right? We just had someone that came on, uh, Dr. Ashley, um, and she talked about like avoiding going to the doctor.

She [00:20:00] knew that something was wrong and found out she had breast cancer and then tried to put, tried to put off the double mastectomy until spring break, right? Like, no, I have, we have testing, so can, can we put this off until March? It was January and she had had to have a double mastectomy. So this, this swirling around of this toxic way of showing up as educators.

And then in the same conversation, why don't we have more teachers?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: we having a shortage, sweetheart? Because your expectations are. Unacceptable. They're unrealistic. And I just wanted to pause and say, that is insane,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: and I don't use that word lightly, and I would love to know when this person said this, did you look around or was there a chatter, any kind of whispering after that or people were just kinda like, okay, because you went and got vitamins.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I would've got vitamins, baby. I would've said, okay, well my immune system has to be ready. I can't remember the, um, what was happening in [00:21:00] the room.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I will tell you, the grief part of my life got hit. 'cause I had just lost my mom,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: um, like two years prior to

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I had to take off, like I had to take off work.

Like even to this day, like there's still times where I'm grieving my mom. Not to that extent, but I was definitely in a grieving season

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Sure.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: my life. And so I think that was probably what hit me the hardest, the most of like, how in the world did this woman her parents? And she didn't take off for work like that.

That was what was like kinda wild to me of like something she's off, you know?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: like that was wild. That was

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: And, and, and those are the sa the same folks who get promoted to leadership. Right. And that, go ahead.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I was gonna say, I'm sorry For her, it was actually the opposite. She got walked out in the middle of the school year.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Oh, oh, I mean, yeah, she got walked out, but somebody told her that she was fit to be a, a leader. Like someone [00:22:00] saw her in her, her AP role or in her teacher role and said like, oh yeah, she definitely is the leadership type.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: so she got walked out, but how many people did she cause harm to?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Even if it was a single day, even if she got walked out right after that speech,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: she caused harm. Right. And so I just wanna say like, yeah, she got walked out, we gonna get to that. But in the interim, there's students, there's families, there's educators who tell the story that you're telling and that was, that impacted them in these ways that we'll never know.

Right? And, and, and, and in really harmful ways. And then also folks who had decided like that was their last day of work,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: And so I just wanted to to pause because you know, we have lots of great stories in education. But these, these toxic, uh, administrators and managers and directors, they are all over the country causing [00:23:00] harm and at the same time asking about shortages and like not seeing how they're playing a role in that issue.

Um, but go ahead.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: So, to piggyback on kind of some of the things that you took, you're talking about like with the toxicity with the aps and the principals and, um, whatnot, I put on my administrator hat and I think about both sides of it. She was in the wrong completely,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: completely as, as so many are, but I also. Worry about what comes down from the higher ups that we don't see what comes down from, there are pressures and things that

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: like we're the buffers as administrators, we're the buffer buffers between the higher ups and then the teachers. It's just, I wish there was a way to, um, show the administrators that are on the campus level, like, how can you properly filter that and what type [00:24:00] of, um, SOPs be put into place so that you're prioritizing wellness

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yes,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: for your teachers, but for yourself

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: yes.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: still getting the things done. Because I understand she made, because we were at a campus where, I mean the test scores and, and things were very, very low. And so I'm sure she had a lot of pressure coming down, uh, on her. But the way she went about that thing, it drove everybody to burn out. I mean, it

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. The, the pendulum swung too far over.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: far. Too

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: And so like what, like what you're saying is like, wait, what is the, the, where's the middle ground?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Right, and perfect attendance doesn't mean that I'm showing up perfect. Like perfectly. And I think that's the mistake is like your body's in the classroom. Well, your mind could be elsewhere

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: and your body could be sick in the classroom and make children sick in the classroom.

And so this like, this is a need. We have to have attendance, like you just [00:25:00] said, burnout, racial battle fatigue, compassion fatigue are all the things that can and do happen when we don't take into account the human experience outside of the classroom or outside of the school. You know what I, I know. You know what I mean?

I'm saying, you know what I mean? But you know what, I know what I mean. Yes.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: on, um, you were talking about the health issues. Um, I actually, I think it was that school year or the next school year, I ended up having a surgery. Um, which now looking back on it, I don't know that it was necessarily that I needed to have that surgery. I was having some stomach pains and like, they just would not go away. after having a colonoscopy a couple of times, an endoscopy, my mom, she had colon cancer, so anytime stomach pain for myself or my sister come up, we're like, wait a minute.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: And they couldn't figure out what was going on. So they ended up having to go in and do this invasive surgery. [00:26:00] And after I kind

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: kind of like

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: getting well and, and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: and whatnot.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I honestly think at the end of the day I probably wasn't using the, the bathroom properly.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Absolutely.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: You know what I'm saying? Because when they went into the surgery, uh, to do the surgery, they did end up taking, um, like some fibroids. So it was like, while we're in there, let's go ahead and, and take out some fibroids. But when it came to my stomach issues there, they couldn't find anything. Um, it was crazy.

And so I was going to the doctor, but I also, your body holds stress. Your body holds stress in, in, in, in different parts of your body. You may have aches and pains and, uh, losing hair and, and gross and different things going on. Hot flashes, you know, that may not be associated with perimenopause or menopause. Your body is just trying to figure out what to do with the stress.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: yeah, it's crazy.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. And this is [00:27:00] why I said let's back up and and, and kind of go through this story because there's so many. Nuggets that people need to be hearing. Right? You are not the first person on the show that's talked about illness and surgeries and things like that. And, and pausing to say, like, thinking back, I feel like it was more about the workplace.

Um, or I, I felt something was off, but I pushed it off to, and then, then it became a surgery when it didn't have to, or I wasn't drinking water. And now I have problem with my kidneys. Like there's like so many of us who again, are showing up in school, but because we're not able to use the restroom without rushing or we're not eating our food, chewing our food so that we can get proper fiber and digestion is working properly, that we just keep pushing our, um, our health down the road in hopes that when we finally have time that we'll get better

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: That

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: and.

That's not necessarily the case. Like some people can, but we know that also [00:28:00] educators, a lot of us get sick during break

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: our body's been glued together with coffee and desk chocolate. And now at Christmas break we are sick for two weeks.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: You just said a whole, you just preached a whole sermon right there. Yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. So, um, continue, tell us about, you know, that part of your, um, education journey and if you wanna continue on, talk about your AP and how you got there. But yeah, I'd love to hear more. We'd love to hear more.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: absolutely. Um, so. I'm sure you already know the end of the story. I did not stay at that district, um, or that school, uh, very long. Um, I ended up transitioning to another ISD 'cause like I said, it's almost like when you're here in this large metroplex, um, you have to figure out what's the right

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: um, I went to the next district where I say that the leader saved my life. Um, absolutely love her. Um, [00:29:00] love her. She's still, um, near and dear to my heart to this day. Um, but one of the

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: The,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: a factor with wellness at that district or at that school is my first year working there, I was the only African American female there. So while I was saved from. The craziness of like, you can't take off of work.

And, um, you know, some of the other situations that were going on that the other district, I walked into a space where I was the only one. And so I had to try to figure out, um, how to navigate that space.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: And there were times where I felt not, and it, and don't get me wrong, I got along with everybody, everybody loved me.

But there were definitely times where I felt, um, or I felt like, you know, I didn't belong or, you know, some of the conversations I couldn't [00:30:00] really, I couldn't really vibe with because I, it, that was not my story. You know, when you think of a African American woman, oftentimes we're single. you know, oftentimes, I don't wanna say oftentimes, but sometimes we don't have kids.

So like when you're sitting at lunch and talking about taking your kids with your husband to the soccer field and doing all this, like, I can't relate to that. I'm not saying that's every black woman, um, it was just, it was different, right? that kind of played a little bit of a role into it did is it gave me a voice because at the end of the year, and I, this is why I love this principle so much because she liked to reflect and one of the things that she would ask us is, what is it that I can do better?

So she wasn't just about giving us feedback, but she was like, what can I do to be better? I was like, can we hire some more, uh, African American or more diverse, uh, people,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: some [00:31:00] Hispanics, some Asians, some something. And she listened. And so from that, uh, moment on, she always put me on the hiring committee. Which or may not have been unheard of. 'cause I was like, you know, second year teacher, but always on the hiring committee. And I know it, to some they might have been like, well, you look like the token black. Well, whatever. I, we needed more diversity. And that school was known for, uh, not hiring, many African Americans or diversity or, you know, uh, diversity because a lot of the teachers or people thought that this was like a white school.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Sure.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: um, so from there she began to like, bring in more, I got a chance to, um, co-chair the di the, what was it? The Diversity and inclusion committee. So I was able to present, uh, one time and we did like a whole workshop on diversity and inclusion and it really kind of opened up some dialogue around, um. [00:32:00] Kind of my first year. 'cause I had, when we would like break out into small groups, I had one teacher go, I wondered how you felt. And she was, she was Caucasian. Like, I wonder how you felt like being the only black, um, the only African American teacher in the space. So it was like, it was evident, you know what I'm

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: it was evident that I was the only one. Um, but I didn't feel unsafe or anything like that because like I said, I was rescued from my old district where I had a lot more going on and bigger

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Sure.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: that. But this definitely was something that, um, was an issue, was an issue for me. Um, within that space, that's where I began to think like, where do I wanna go from here?

Because I always, I don't wanna be complacent. I enjoyed teaching, I built some amazing relationships with my students, with my families, um, with staff members. But I knew I didn't, me being a 30 year teacher. was not in the plan for me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: And so I began to think [00:33:00] about where, where am I going next? And I also met with my retirement, you know, specialist.

And he's like, you know, if you can get your, your top five years, that's what's gonna base your retirement off of, you know, your first, your, uh, top five salaries. That's what's gonna base your, uh, your retirement's gonna be based off of that. So then I got to thinking about future and I'm like, I can definitely go into admin. Um, some things happened between that. But, you know, got my certification for, um, to become an administrator and then got my first AP job. Um, actually, hold on, I'm skipping a year. So I did interview one year, uh, to become an ap and I wasn't ready. Like God knew I wasn't ready, but my, my aunt was pushing me of like, go get that experience.

And I'm so glad I did

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: um, that prepared me for the next year. So what's funny is when I went into that first interview, that first year. I had natural hair. So before I got locked up I used to have a fro. [00:34:00] so had in my mind of like, this is the type of administrator that they're wanting. 'cause I didn't see too many people in leadership that look like me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I was like, let me make sure I straighten my hair and let me

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I do And, you know, I'm all buttoned up and this, that, and the other. Right? so I kid you not, the day that we had the interview, it was raining and it was humid, and we know what happens to natural hair after it's been, uh, sipped out. I had like borderline of fro, like, it was just like, I was so uncomfortable. I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: mm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: being like, I couldn't even really answer the questions thoroughly because I was so uncomfortable. But that set me up for the next year. That next year. I went in with my fro.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Like I, I don't mind wearing heels, but I was like on my way to, um, I think I was on my way to Baltimore, like right after that.

So I was like, I'm about to have on my flats. I still had on my blazer, I was still cute, but I was like, I'm coming in and showing up as me. And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: sat down in the chair, I had a [00:35:00] whole different about me. I was Whitney instead of trying to be this person that I thought that they were looking for. when I left the interview, I was like, I, I presented to them all that I am and who the, who I, and you know who I can be. And if they want it, they want it. They don't, they don't. And that's when I got the job,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Can, can I say something? It's so, it's so interesting that I think that somewhere in our childhood we, we see on TV or in movies of corporate girly,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: and especially now with social media, you know, younger generations. See the corporate girl league, whatever they look like. And there's this always this straight hair narrative,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: high heel, the maybe for some folks stockings or whatever, or or whatever.

But it has to be the, the everything you're describing and how we go into a situation, how we show up, it's how that's our first impression.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: people are like, yeah, that's why you should dress up. That's why you should wear a suit. [00:36:00] But then it also says, I'll be wearing that silk press forever.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Right. I'm gonna be, I, I have to maintain that.

And it's like, what does it mean to you already? People are already code switching in their jobs for other things, and I gotta code switch my hair and damage it and keep, keep it a certain way until, so, you know, and sometimes folks like, wait, I'm gonna, this is a day I'm gonna go natural and see what happens.

And they're like, oh, your hair is so, and it's over. But some folks will just be trapped in that corporate girly, uh, aesthetic for as long as their career is. And so I'm not for or against that, but I'm just thinking like, I, when you said that you sl your hair dye, you had due the silk press and it was raining, I was like, oh, this is gonna be something.

Yeah, because people need to hear that, whether they work for themselves or other people. Like who are you? Like what ways can you be your authentic self, even the smallest amount? Right. To have some, uh, small [00:37:00] amount of, um. Liberation even in the workplace, and for some of us it can be here. Some people it can't be, but we have to keep asking ourselves things like that.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: That's real.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: And you know, people that have known me and grown up with me, they know that my flat iron honey, you know, used to call it a flat iron. My flat iron and my, my, my rap, it used to be on point, you

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: yeah,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: so I've had the short pixie, holly berry cut. I've had all the things, but at this time in my life, that's no longer me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: yeah.[00:38:00]

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Or like you said, maybe I, I, I silk press it one day. Um, but then the next day it's back natural. So even me, most of the time it was natural. So me showing up with that Silk press that just was not, that's not Whitney every day.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: was not Whitney every day.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I had evolved into something, you know, something else.

Someone else.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. So tell us about your work as an ap, because so many educators. You know, go back to school, get certifications or or licensure to be a administrator. And it feels like for folks, like you say you got those folks who 30 years in the classroom or as a para or whatever, and you have folks who've made the decision to go into admin.

So what was that time like for you?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: So, super exciting. Um, you know, when I got the call, I got the, the, the school that I wanted, right? You could just tell in the interview because it was a panel and you could tell in the interview, um, that. That [00:39:00] was the fit, you know, um, there was a vibe between myself and the principal and, um, know, I went in green and, and, and ready to work hard.

And, um, I don't know that I paced myself at the beginning because I didn't, I was just like, I just wanna just do and, and, and be all things to everyone. Um, 'cause as I mentioned to you, you know, I'm all about loving on people and all of the things, and I made sure that I, allowed that part of myself to, um, be, to show up in that space early on as a ap.

So my teachers knew I was all about them and, and advocating for them. you gotta also understand when you're an assistant principal, you're multitasking. So you're the lpac, um, uh, director, you're the, uh, or or committee person. You're doing the sped cases, um, you're doing ards, which is like our special education.

You're doing behavior, like behavior is like a huge part of what you do. [00:40:00] Um, you're this, I was the testing coordinator. Like there were so many different roles that in some districts there might be one person assigned to this role, whereas I had all these roles assigned to me, um, in addition to me wanting to always make sure that my heart work was being done, me

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: sure,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: teachers in some way,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: sure.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: decorating the lounge or, uh, getting donations of food form or just doing something to let 'em know that I loved them. It was wild. Like it was, it was, it was a lot. Um, we also had, we're assigned, uh, which regardless of where you're at, you're assigned, when I say where you're at geographically, uh, statewise, you're gonna always have teachers that you're assigned to, to evaluate. So you're gonna have, you know, a heavy roster of that. And the feedback forms that you would have to do, they were like reports, you know, they were, I called 'em like book reports. And so developed some unhealthy habits because I couldn't always do my work at work. I had to do my work at [00:41:00] home, um, like the busy work, so to speak, those reports and, and things. And so I would get off of work. Now, mind you, like I'm getting to work most of the time. I'm getting to work early so it's dark outside and then get home, probably dark outside 'cause I'm staying later. So I would come home, I would eat, um, kind of chill out for a second, and then I would take what I called a nap. I went to bed at like nine or 10, and then I would wake up at like midnight write up a report, stay up for like two hours, write a report, maybe get like another 30, 45 minutes and then like, wake up again, write another report. Um, I know it didn't make any sense. It didn't make any sense. Like, I didn't do this.

I can't say every night, every night was not like that. But when I had those deadlines, because I, I'm a deadline person, like I wanna make sure that I'm hitting my deadlines and I don't want anybody coming from me talking about, you didn't, you didn't turn in X, Y, and Z. No, it's turned in. [00:42:00] But I al always sacrifice a lot in order to get that done.

Um, so my sleep habits would be off sometimes because I would go to work tired. Like this is crazy. Um. Every morning I would make me a nice cup of coffee. Like that was just like part of my, my routine and my habit. Um, and not just drinking the coffee, but just getting up and the act of making the coffee, smelling the coffee as I'm waking up, like that was important to me. But I would do all that work to make my coffee only to set the cup down on my desk when I got there. And, you know, I didn't drink it,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: um, packed my lunch, I would eat, but maybe I, I didn't eat until one or, you know, two or dismissal. Um, I don't always, I don't, I don't know that I was the best at advocating for myself to say, Hey, like, I need to take a break, or, because you're always on as, as an administrator, you go [00:43:00] into the bathroom and if you took your walkie talkie in with you, it's like, Tover, we need you, Tover, we need

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Sure.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: you know, it's like, I can't even sit down and use the bathroom. You know, it's just. So you were just always on. And knowing what I know now, which is hard because it's, that's something new, you don't know what you're getting into. But I would've definitely put different boundaries in place and advocated for, um, myself more to be like, this is the time I'm carving out.

This is the time that I'm leaving each day. This is the time that I'm gonna get there in the morning. What gets done, gets done, what doesn't get done? If I miss a deadline, it might be okay.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: just sometimes we do things because we don't want other people's react. We don't wanna hear other people's reactions, or we want them to look at us, um, favorably, that can't be at the detriment of you.

Or that, you know, that shouldn't have been at the detriment of me. Like, what if they, you know, I don't wanna say [00:44:00] they know not Yeah, but so what if they are, uh, not pleased with what it is that I do? You know? And that's where I talked about that. I'm a perfectionist, but kind of getting out of that, doing everything with perfection, but with excellence, you

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: yeah,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: you can't be perfect.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: yeah. This is, um, I, I. You've shared a lot in this, this little couple minutes, and I'm just sitting here thinking about the sleep pattern and I'm thinking about the, like you said, the bathroom and the coffee and all the things, and there are folks who are probably listening to this exit interview and thinking like, that's me.

Like right now. That's what I'm going through. Or, or like if when I'm AP I won't do that. I'll do X, Y, and Z,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: That's what you.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. Yeah. And so I want folks to listen to someone who was an AP and take note, like you said, better boundaries around rest, better boundaries [00:45:00] around workload, better boundaries around using the restroom or things like that.

And yeah, an AP position and teaching position, paraprofessional dean, early childhood higher education. All of it, uh, because it's like the deadline, the pile never ends. I remember as an educator, I used to, you know, grade papers and not clear the whole basket, and the next day the basket be full again. And so I had to slow down, like, there's going to be more work tomorrow.

And I'm trying to burn it up to make, to have some like relief instead of, instead of just being relieved now, instead of giving myself permission now to say like, you're doing a good job. You don't have to be rushing all the time. Instead of that, it's instant anxiety. And I think that school districts put that anxiety like, we gotta get to school.

We have to not miss, we gotta get together. And it's all this pressure, right? It's all this pressure. And the folks who, um. Our [00:46:00] sacrificing. This are the always the kids, the and the hu, all the humans in involved, but we just keep that narrative going. Yeah. And so thinking about that pacing, and you kind of alluded to this earlier when talking about your dad, what is it you and AP for some time, what was it that helped you decide it is time for you to go?

Like what, what was that decision?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I think it was, so it, it was kind of, I don't know, there was a couple of things, but it's like when you kind of get to that point of like, I'm not happy, you know? Um. I'm not, I'm not happy. And so I began to look for other positions. I was an AP for two years, and so I began to look for positions, um, that, the end of like the first year.

And nothing, I, I didn't get anything. I didn't, I, like, I had an interview for one position that I really, really [00:47:00] wanted, but God closed that door and I now know why, which I'm grateful for.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: So you wait just to interrupt you. So you knew you weren't happy after the first year.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: It was April of that first year.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: tell you the month because there was something specific that happened. I'm not gonna the, uh, go into it, but it was something that was like this moment of like, man, I'm probably, this is probably, and it's, it's not even that. Um, 'cause I was good. I was a good ap, you know what I'm saying?

Somebody would be like, well, you wasn't great. I was, I was a good ap. Like I was, I was good ap. Um, but I was. I could have very easily gone to another school or another district, but I was just worried that I would have, like, I would feel the same way because I, you know, that workload, um, is probably not going anywhere now. There's many different factors that go into this. You know, the, the students you serve, the leadership, you know, that you serve with, [00:48:00] um, teachers that you serve. There's many different factors that contribute to all of this. Um, and so, yeah, I was just like, I think I'm, I'm, I think I'm good. I'm not, I'm, I'm beginning to be unhappy. Um, and so I was trying to make, make a move and that second year I came back and I was actually the summer school principal, uh, during that summer, which that was really, really cool. Um, my teachers, they worked hard for me. It was, it was a good time, good time. Um, and yeah. you're, you asked me about when did I know that it was time for me to,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: So you, you knew that and then you started to look and so you're at the end of your second year.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: So then I get to, um, I think it was April again, something about April. So April is when my birthday is. And so it's

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: the April and um, second year is when I believe I put in my resignation, um, to say I wouldn't be returning. And [00:49:00] it was, so I called my cousin. So I, my cousin, I like to call him my therapist during that time. Um, and so he would kind of help me navigate through some situations that I was, really struggling with of like, you know, just how do I have this diff these difficult conversations, or this is what's happening, how do I navigate this? And so he kind of knew what was going on and how I was feeling. And I called him like six o'clock in the morning.

I was on my way to work and I was like, Hey, I think I'm going to resign from my, from my job. And he's like, okay, well think about it. You know, think about it and see what you wanna do. And noon that

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: that day, I called him.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: already put my resignation in. He was like, okay, you move quickly. But I had already been thinking like, this is just not, and so I knew like, God is, is, that's my anchor.

And so I'm like, I know God is going to, um, be with me with whatever decision I decision that I choose to make. And, um, I know it was gonna all work out. [00:50:00] And I wanna also add on to that there was some other facts. So this is the thing, like I said, I began to be uncomfortable like that April of that first year, um, I got, I moved into my, I moved into a house, I wanna say that was also in April of my first year as in ap.

Like I said, April, just things

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: April and. commute began to, uh, became a lot longer. So in the morning it was like about an hour to get to work, and then in the evening it was about an hour and 15, an hour and a half to get home.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Oh, wow.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: So I was spending a lot of time in the car. My hips were hurting, my back already had issues with my back hurting because of just all the stress that I was holding in my body.

So I just was not, I wasn't, well, I wasn't, my ankles were swelling up girl. My a my ankles looked like ham hocks like

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: it was, and I couldn't get them down. Um, I was wearing compression socks, like to go to sleep, plus wearing cons, compression socks during the day. [00:51:00] Um, I remember I went to, me and my best friend went to the Dr.

March of my second year. And I had compression socks on uh, on the airplane, I've never had to do that before. Like, I've seen other people wear compression socks and my ankle still didn't go down. And I'm thinking, well, I'm, I'm not stressed anymore. I'm not walking in the hallways like I should be fine.

My ankle still didn't go down, still was wearing compression socks throughout that trip. And like, it was just like, all these things I remember of like, that my body is changing. I was having like a overgrowth of hair on my face, so like all of this was like hair and I was like, my hormones. I was like, I'm just getting older.

Like, I remember looking in the mirror crying and go, okay, God, you know, I'm, I'm, well I think 37 30 at the, at the time. And I'll go, okay, God, I'm just getting older. This is what's happening to my body. Help me to accept this. It was just crazy. You know what I'm saying? Like

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: [00:52:00] happening that I thought, this is just my life and my season of, you know, this is what's happening.

And come to find out it was like stress. It

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: sure.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: it was crazy. But yeah, so it was like, it was, it was a couple of things kind of like stacked on top of things that made me go, I can't do this anymore.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Um, shout out to your cousin too. He, you know, your cousin was, was late to the game by that, that last time, but Yeah, the, and again. It's a swelling, and like you said, all these things are going on and people write it off as perimenopause or, and not wanting to admit like, oh, actually it's my workplace, because what does it mean when we have to sit and say, my workplace is making me sick and I need to make some decisions to either go and just keep digging in

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: and see what happens or go in a different direction, which is not in the plans or not in the cards.

So [00:53:00] you leave and I'm, I'll ask a question outta order than I normally do, but, um, what are you doing now?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: So now, um, I still have a hundred jobs, um, but I have a nonprofit called The Teacher Retreat. And so we're all about educator, wellness and self-care. The teacher retreat was actually started, um, my second year as an ap and it started in a notebook. I was gonna say, I thought I had my notebook sitting here, but when I say it started in a notebook, I literally wrote down my mission, my vision, um, our goals.

Like all of that was just like I'm writing this stuff down, not knowing if any of these things are going to, um, come to fruition, but it's like, this is what is on my heart to do for educators. And we hosted our first event, um, that may teacher appreciation the weekend before teacher appreciation week. And, um. That's when I knew I really had something. [00:54:00] And then I got my 5 0 1 C3, um, and fully, um, developed that into a nonprofit. And so we're continuing to build on, build on that. I also have, um, an, uh, for-profit, uh, called All Things Well Collective. when we think about all things being Well, so, you know, for me, I, I said, I talked, you know, the Lord is, is my foundation in God.

And so the foundation of all things wellbeing, uh, all things well collective is the fruits of the spirit.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: when you're well, you're gonna have love, you're gonna have joy, you're gonna have peace, you're gonna have patience. You're gonna have gentleness, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, self-control, all of these things, right?

When you look at somebody, you can tell if they're well

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: unwell. And so it's, it's based off of the fruit that you bear. So, um, that was the foundation for all things. Well, and so with that, I do self-care planning and really allowing people to. time and space to [00:55:00] assess where you're at and then make a plan based off of that data that we just collected. And oftentimes people think that when they're doing, um, self-care, one of the things I start the workshop off with is a, just a question we dive into anything is when I say self-care, what does that mean to you?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: you get like the spa massages trips, like it's all these big, um, sometimes unattainable things of when it comes to self-care. And so with the self-care planning, we're looking at what is something that you can do in your everyday life? self-care needs to become a practice, self-care needs to become a routine.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: about, you know, I was telling you when I was, um, an educator, sometimes I would be rushing so much in the morning to where. the parts that's, uh, getting lotion is just my face. And if my elbows are out, but I got underneath my jeans, I got ashy ankles, you

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Dry.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: self care, [00:56:00] dry. It's, I'm just, you know, that's self care.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: yes.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: your goal is to, you know, five days out of the week, I'm gonna make sure I moisturize properly or I'm gonna exfoliate, like drinking your water.

Little, small things that can end up building on, you know, those big things that you wanna achieve. So, you know, in education we talk about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Like, that's like our tool that we use when we're, you know, trying to figure these kids out. That's one of the, the. The foundational tools that I use when it comes to these workshops and, and helping teachers to recognize where are you at on this hierarchy?

What, where, where are you struggling with? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you getting enough? Um, what's your health looking like? What's your, your, your family connections and relationships looking like? Um, so that you can get to that self-actualization, um, space with the, the Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, right?

We

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah,[00:57:00]

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: that when we're talking about our students that we're serving, but we need to use that when we're talking about ourselves.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: yeah, yeah. Uh, and you Oh, go. No, go ahead. Go ahead.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: So one more thing that I do, so I'm also, um, the general manager for, uh, lead Strong. And so we're a coach consultancy and we do, um, leadership development and team facilitation on the leadership level.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yes, yes, yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: So.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: my jobs at this point.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: That's a lot of jobs, you know, and so thinking about your work with educators, loving on them, supporting them with their rest plans and things like that, and having been in education as long as you have. Then my next question is based on what you heard as a teacher, what you saw in her as an ap, what you've seen here in your work now, what do you believe that schools and districts and unions can do to retain black educators based on your own experience?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Mm-hmm. [00:58:00] So not just, I would say not, I know, you know, we're speaking about black educators, but

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Sure.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: just for black educators, but educators in general. Some of this pd, like when I hear professional development, I cringe

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: educator I'd be like, I just wanna be in my classroom doing my job, or I just need to be in my

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Office,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: my job. Um. Districts spend so

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: much

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: on, um, professional development in

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: in,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: of like, um, all these different tools that they want us to use not thinking about the things that we already have in our toolbox. So you've already, most of the time have equipped me to teach reading well or to teach math well, or to handle behavioral, you know, some folks still struggle.

I get that. Right. But for your ones that are doing it well, like, let me go and plan or let me go and do what I need to do so that I can be prepared, um, and I don't have to take these things home. So really being thoughtful about the [00:59:00] professional development that, um, they're offering and how much of it.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: then when you are having professional development, are you pouring into the humanness of the educator? Not just the professional part of the educator,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Right.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: We are

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: You're

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: to check everything at the door, and that's just not possible. You know,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: you know?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: about like, when my mom was sick, when I was a caregiver, I couldn't check that at the door.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Sure.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: when she passed away, I couldn't check that at the door. Um, you know, if you are married and you are having some marital issues, you can't check that out the door. Your kid is acting up. You can't check that out the door. Um, there's just things that you cannot check at the door. And what are you doing? I'm saying you, the districts, what are they doing to help educators be well every day?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. [01:00:00] Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: And it can be something as simple as like, you walk around and teachers to see if they need a, a restroom break or, um. Something, making sure that one of the things that I like to do, like when I would have, um, conferences with my, uh, educators is yes, we would go over their observation data and all of that, but I also wanted to know more about them. So getting to know more about that educator on a human level, you know, if they're in school, ask them about their, their master's program or how can I assist, um, if they have kids and how's little Johnny's football game?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: like, really taking an interest in these teachers instead of thinking of them as workhorses, but thinking of them as humans.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: a lot out of your, your teachers that way.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Um, thank you for that. Dr. Sean Genwright was on the show for the [01:01:00] beginning of season five, and he said that it's important that we focus on human development. And from the human development become, we can then focus on the professional development. And so many people, as you're saying, as I agree with, are skipping the human development.

It's like, get to the action, get to the work, get to the action, get to the work. And then when people burn up, it's like, well, what happened? Because you skipped the human development, and you feel like that's not a, this workplace is not a place for human development. How is it not when we are there 8, 9, 10 hours a day?

Right? It has to be a part of that. All of these things are true, right? Checking in with people. Um, and it's not just a coffee cup filled with candy at, you know, every teacher appreciation. There's, there's things that need to be done to support educators year round. I appreciate you saying that, and I would hope that the trend is no longer, is not a trend, but things are actually [01:02:00] moving in the direction of school's, dis districts and unions pausing long enough to, to talk about and be, and having this wellness space.

I, we, you and I talked earlier that, you know, this couple weekends ago I was asked by the NEA, the National Education Association to come in and create a space for them, for the wellness of their, their educators. And we want more of that, right? More of that in our nine to five, more of that at conferences, more, more of that in our spaces.

And um, and there is time for that.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: yes,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: always time for our healing and our wellness. So I appreciate you saying that. Uh, the next question is, is there a black educator that you would like to shout out or black educators?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah. the one that comes to mind, and I'm, I'm, I apologize to my folks if I'm not shouting you out, but one that comes to mind is my best friend, uh, Brion Scott. She is, [01:03:00] um, a dean, which is equivalent to an assistant principal.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: um, assistant principals at the same time, and she's still in it, and she's still doing her thing.

And, um, I know one day, you know, she wants to go higher up and, and, and do her thing. And an amazing human being, just an amazing leader. And when you watch this, I love you. I'm proud of you. And, and, just continue to do great work.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. Thank you.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Um, and our last question, we've been talking about wellness, we're talking about other people being well for you, what does it mean to be well?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: It's the little things to be, well, to me it means have peace, to have joy. I mean, the fruits of the spirit. It's when you really think about those things, am I able to love, like what's love look like in my life? Am I able to give love? Am I able to receive love? Do I have peace? Am I a [01:04:00] peaceful person?

Like do people wanna be around me or are they're like, ugh, every time

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: you know, what does that look

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Like,

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Am I kind, am I good? Um, like show goodness and kindness to people. Um, being faithful, like in the sense of keep my word?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: You know, am I showing up for people in a way that, necessarily the way that I want them to show for me, but am I showing up for people? Um, being consistent and really being kind to myself. I came across a journal entry. A couple months back, 'cause I've always journaled throughout my life. And this journal, I think I must have had it during my college years. And I had just made a transition. 'cause I started off at the University of Kansas.

And then, um, after two and a half years, I transitioned to Wichita State, which where I ultimately graduated. And during that time, you kind of asked about my parents' reactions to [01:05:00] things. And I'm sure during that time they was like, I can't believe that you didn't, we didn't move you down here, now we're moving you back.

And there was probably a lot of disappointment. And in this journal entry, I'm just going in on myself, I'm just like, you know, you're this, you're that, you're lazy, you're this. And it was just like I started crying, you know, at this age 39, um, reading this of, you know, me writing this to my 19-year-old, 20-year-old self. then I started listing out all of the things that you've, that I've accomplished, like Whitney, like you're, you're actually this. Like, I don't know what was going on at that time, I wasn't speaking kindly to myself, but now that's something that I try to make a practice of because we can sit all day long and look at all of our flaws and all of the things that we're doing wrong.

I'm not saying that I'm just perfect at it. 'cause I'd be like, girl, I cannot believe that you did X, Y, and Z. But then have to try to reframe that thinking of, but you're not, you're not perfect, you're human.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: right? So being [01:06:00] kind to myself, um, finding time to rest without guilt. 'cause sometimes I feel like I gotta be busy.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: when I quit, um, resign, I, people probably say, why you keep saying like, you quit cha job, like when I resigned from my job, you know? Um. I had space where I was in transition trying to figure out what does that look like of me working all the time and like having zero, um, free time to now I'm kind of like in these entrepreneurial, uh, spaces, like, like the time looks different. I would be trying to make up stuff to do. Like, it was crazy because I felt like I had to be on, I was still waking up at like six in the morning getting on my computer, you know, cleaning out my emails, doing all these things. Now granted that some of those things I needed to do because it was in preparation for what was to come, but I still didn't need to be as busy as I thought I needed to be.

But I thought that I wasn't worthy of having, uh, [01:07:00] rest. I wasn't worthy of free time. It's some crazy psychological stuff that we got going on that we have to rewire. Um, so yeah, I'm very, I try to be very purposeful with rest. I'm not always great at it, but yeah. Some of the things. Yeah, just

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Thank you.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: every day in the smallest way.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah, thank you. Um, how can folks find you if they're interested in having your organization or your, your non-profit or for-profit come to their school or work with you to build out rest plans? Like how can they find you?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Absolutely. So, uh, my email address is Whitney dot Toliver with two ls@theteacherretreats.org. Um, you can also follow us on Facebook, um, the teacher retreat Instagram, um, at the teacher retreat, LinkedIn. Um, I think the handle or whatever is the teacher retreat. Everything is the teacher retreat. And you'll see our logo, it's like a [01:08:00] TAR, um, and an apple.

So if you see the, that, that red, black and red logo, that's us. Um, we're doing lots of things all around. Um, the DFW area, always looking for, um, partnerships, um, in order to, uh, help bring these experiences to educators. 'cause one of the things that we do with the. Teacher retreat is we know that teachers are busy. Um, we know that sometimes it can be hard to leave school and then go to do your leisure activity. So we like to push into the schools and provide those, um, activities. So it may be like a afterschool, um, activity or like yesterday, um, we were asked to come in the middle of the day and do a, a session where they got to paint. Um, we also have outside activities. We have mixers, we have gardening events. So when it comes to the teacher retreat, we're all about having a good time and, and meeting the needs of, of everyone because we understand that some people may not like mixers, but you like to garden. You

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: to [01:09:00] garden, but you like to paint or you like to do bracelet making.

So just making sure that we are covering the bases for everyone.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah. Thank you. All right folks. Check out Whitney, check out the teacher retreat. Uh, if you're an admin, if you're a teacher, dean, whomever, find her. Get, um, get in there. Make sure you talk to her. Connect. And Whitney, we really appreciate you coming on and speaking to us and sharing your story. Uh, a lot to talk about.

A lot to think about. And all right, folks, we'll talk to you later. Peace.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: If you don't

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Go. Nah, go.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: already said peace, she concluded. But, um, so since this is the year of 2026,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: uh, turning 40. I know. I only look, you know, 21. I get it. You know, excuse these gray hairs.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: You good?

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: um, one of the things that we're doing is we are running a campaign to have folks donate $40 in honor of myself, the founder of the teacher retreat.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Yeah.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: Be on the [01:10:00] lookout for that donation link. If you see it. Um, if you can't donate, that's totally fine. Pass it to someone that

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Mm-hmm.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: if you can donate $5, $4, all of these things go back to the educators that we serve. Um, but we can't do it without partnerships. We can't do without donations. So an honor of me in lieu of gifts, this would make my heart so happy.

Donate $40,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Y'all could do that, folks.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: please.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: donate that. $40, 50 maybe. All right.

whitney-tolliver_2_12-16-2025_123831: I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_12-16-2025_113831: Um, I love it. Thank you, Whitney. We'll talk to y'all later. Alright, peace for real this time. Bye.

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