Reclaiming Rest & Thriving Beyond Burnout with Amanda Miller Littlejohn

Reclaiming Rest & Thriving Beyond Burnout with Amanda Miller Littlejohn

[00:00:00]

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: All right folks. Welcome back to the exit interview, a podcast for black educators with me, your host, Dr. Asia. It's good to be with you all. Um, we have another fantastic guest. I know you all try to hear me say that. But we have fantastic guests. Um, so today we have Amanda Miller Littlejohn, who I just wanna say before I read her bio, I met through Octavia Raheem, who was on the show a while back.

So anybody who's a friend of Octavia is a friend of mine. So excited for this, this conversation. But, um, Amanda, uh, Miller Littlejohn writes and speaks about burnout. Our relationship to work and how to find alignment at work and in life. She's a sought after executive coach and brand strategist who cl who, excuse me.

Strategist whose clients span the globe from San Francisco to Singapore. She's passionate about helping high achievers make themselves and their work visible in [00:01:00] the digital age. Amanda's the author of Packager Genius. Five Steps to Build Your Most Powerful Personal Brand, PYG Books 2018 and most recently, the Rest Revolution.

How to Reclaim Your Rhythm and Conquer Burnout when overworking has become the norm. WI E 2024. An accomplished freelance journalist. Amanda is a 24 25 Rosalyn Carter mental health journalism fellow. Her writing has appeared in the Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, and Forbes and explores the mental health challenges and opportunities of high achieving midlife professionals.

Welcome to the show, Amanda.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Thank you, Dr. Asia. So excited to be here with you.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, I'm glad you're here. We had a chance to talk for a minute. We just kicking it and listen, we out here doing the thing.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Doing all the things. All of the things.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, yeah. And I, I'm excited for this conversation because specifically of, because of [00:02:00] your book on burnout. Um, and I think that's why Octavia, we, we, we got, we gathered that, that's why she connected us, because you know. We are talking about in the age of right now, it's March of 2025. Executive orders are coming down, people are losing their jobs.

Folks are trying to figure out how their jobs are being renamed. Everything is happening. And so this conversation, not that you knew this was gonna happen when you wrote the book, but this conversation on burnout, um, is one that needs to be had. And for our black educators who are starting to realize that.

The pipeline for more black folks to come into education is starting to dry up, right? Because of lots of things. Specifically our, um, the Department of Education nationally is, um, being cut down. The funding from nonprofits who are working on pipeline work. Some of those folks are no longer receiving funding or receiving less funding.

We're starting to [00:03:00] realize we may be all we have. Right. Um, and so I, I wanted to come in and I want you to talk about this and how your work can support black educators. So the first thing I'll start with is a question. Um, why this book and why now?

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Hmm. Thank you for that. I think this conversation has been brewing, you know, for a long, long time. It first started personally brewing for me. I. About midway through the first year of the pandemic and really started picking up, um, in 2021 after I had my daughter I was, Looking for ways to front burner my joy, which is something that I talk about in the rest revolution.

And that essentially means getting back to the things that, [00:04:00] um, uniquely energize and, and add energy to you. But they typically aren't things that make money or are seen as productive or useful to society or to the world, right? Like we live in this world where every single thing is. Supposed to generate money or productivity

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: way.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: it's like, if you're not using your time on that, then what are you doing? And so. What I was missing was my own personal source of fuel, which is writing and sharing my words and my voice. And so I was looking for a story to tell. I was working with my coaching clients and that was going great, but I, I. Had a desire to get back into the journalism work that I started my career on. And remember when Simone Biles stepped away from those 2020 Olympics. You know, it came out later that she had the twisties and she didn't feel, um, she could move [00:05:00] forward into her competition safely. And she said she was tired, she was exhausted.

You know, I remember. My collective group of black women just kind of saying, wait, what we can do that We didn't know

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: stay. We were tired and not go on. And when she did that, know if you remember, but online it was like this chorus of other black women saying like, oh wow. we can do

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: an article about that, um, and it was published in the Washington Post, and that resonated so deeply and widely. I did a lot of reporting for it, um, with high achieving women, black women, and hours of reporting. And the article was only like 900 words.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Oh wow.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: And so

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Oh wow.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I was like, there's more to this story

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: For sure.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: And so that was kind of the low key, the genesis of the book. [00:06:00] But the conversation on burnout had been brewing and it was literally, it, it, it does not stop because I think we're just at this inflection point in society, we're, we're starting to realize how much everyone is carrying, but how. The container that we are trying to operate in is so flawed that it makes operations impossible.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to make sustainable operation. It makes it impossible sustainable operations. That's so true.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I mean, even what we were talking about before we got on about like college and the costs of college, it's like. Who is this for? Like my, my oldest child got into a school where the tuition is 30 K per semester, and that's just tuition. So the total cost of attendance is well over, you know, I think over a hundred K per year for an undergrad who I still have to wake up in the morning to school on time.

I'm [00:07:00] like, that's a big investment for someone who may or may not make it to class, you know? And so it's like. you pour into your kids and you, you, you do all the things. You sign them up for all the activities, you get all the tutoring in the, all of the things. And yet you reach these points where it's like, this, this is, I don't know if this is gonna work, like if this is gonna work for our family.

And so whether we're talking about the price of eggs or the price of college tuition, I think we've gotten to a point where people are saying, enough, um, this, this isn't going to work.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. Yeah. I definitely feel that more and more these days that in my Instagram community folks I talk to in, in, in real life here on in, in Aurora are feeling this, what used to make sense that what used to be the next step, the next best step, or what our society said was the right thing to do. It's just not making sense anymore.[00:08:00]

And so many people are pretending like it does make sense or like, we'll just push past this. It's like, no, we do have to pause for $30,000 per semester. We do have to pause.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: that.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. And when you said that the first time when we were talking, I'm thinking 30, 60, 90, which it just keeps going and going on top of, like you said, we are not talking about room and board.

Um, but there's still an expectation that folks go to college and not just go to undergrad Now. Because it's starting to seem like undergrad's not enough though. It should be though. It should be. Yeah. And so that's a real thing. And in that same vein, just thinking about college, thinking about overachieving, thinking about all those things, you work closely with high achieving professionals, um, who experienced burnout, and so we'd love to hear more about that.

And then how do you define burnout?

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: before I jump in that you said something [00:09:00] that was so good that I just have to, I have to piggyback on. People who are realizing that it's the, the container's not operating in this container's not sustainable. Like we should just push ourselves a little bit harder to make it work.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: of the book, that was my personal experience. I've always had a little more in the take, like I've always known, like, oh, I can, know, if I have to, right?

Like, I

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: little bit more. It's, it's another, it's a corner of energy over there

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: A few drops.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I can, I can, I can, you know, burn this midnight oil, I can pull it all night or you know, whatever. And during the pandemic. I hit that wall. I didn't know I had a wall. [00:10:00] And I hid it.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: it, and I think

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: I did know I had a wall. Sorry. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I mean, sadly like abused myself to the point where like no matter what, I can always kind of eke out a bit more labor, more hard work, work harder, sleep less, you know, forego self care to get it done. And I think. I think that's what's happening kind of metaphorically.

And you, you, you put that into words of like, we're trying to move in this. container that doesn't make sense. And I think, yes, some people are able to lean on this skill or lean on their network or lean on

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: but more and more we're getting to the point where it's just like, none of that is going to work.

We're we're collectively hitting a wall that maybe we didn't know was there. And the setup of our society and the way it, especially how it has shifted [00:11:00] in this first. Few months of the year is making that more clear. Um, well, what was your question? Because now I've

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. No, no, you're good. And so I think that kind of this, this idea you work with closely with high achieving professionals. It sounds like at one time, and maybe now in some capacity, but you work with high achieving professionals because you were a person who was a high achieving professional who hit a wall.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: am. Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I think you know. As an exercise when you're building your business or or building any sort of consulting practice, it's always good to try to figure out who is your audience and who gravitates to you the most or who do you have the most, skill to help. And for me, the high achievers always emerged.

It was always just like those people who. Could pull a little more out of their tanks and were willing to go the extra mile. Were willing to show up and work hard, but [00:12:00] also who believed in excellence, who believed in their talents and their skills, and who really wanted to make the most of them didn't wanna coast. Just really felt like, wow, I've been given, uh, a talent or a skillset or a mind or a network that I am willing to do my part. To go all in on so that I'm maximizing this opportunity for both myself and my family, but also for society, for my people, um, and for the impact that I wanna make. And so, know, when you attract people like that and, and then they're working with me, so like. know they can work and I can work. So I'm

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: to do to make them work

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: them to shine and I want the world to hear about them and know their names. But like all of that is a recipe for burnout because especially when you don't know your limits yet, if you have not been in a situation where you have run outta road seeing, oh, I can't [00:13:00] work for two days without sleep or meals, you know,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. Or drinking water.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Yeah. Like I, I can't do that and I definitely can't do it over and over and over again and still show up and be able to deliver my best and feel okay. and so yeah, I think that the, the type of person I am and the type of leaders I attract, the burnout conversation just really becomes inevitable

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: we. We're all, you know, we've been groomed to overachieve as one of my clients would say. Right. It's like we know how to boss up and get it done, but when you do that again and again and again, it takes a toll.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, and I, while you're talking, the thing that came up to my mind, I don't know if it's a question for us to necessarily answer right now, but I think will excellence. Specifically for black women, will Black [00:14:00] Excellence save us?

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: No.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: will not. so that again, is why this rest conversation is so important. I, you know, these last few years have been a revelation for me because, and I was listening actually to a podcast this morning. Um, Dr. Gabor mate, listened to him talk before

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: and how trauma informs. You know, how you relate to the world. Um, but he was specifically talking about how like you can experience trauma in childhood where you aren't getting your needs met per. Perhaps there's neglect or you are not seen by your caregivers, and so then you make it your life's mission to be seen and to

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: And that can manifest very often in overworking 'cause you overwork to make [00:15:00] good grades and to show that I'm a good and valuable person

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: should lift me and to earn the love and care of those around you to the point where you think that's your personality. You think that's who you are. That is literally your trauma response.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: What, so like when you say, well our excellence say half of us, are we even excellent for real? Like, yes, we are, we are, we have the capacity, but is that even like, is that even like the thing that we would lean into wholeheartedly if we didn't feel like that was what we had to do to feel worthy and loved?

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Wait, I just wanna stop because you asked a really good, a really good rhetorical question a second ago. It's like, are we are? Half of us aren't even excellent. Like, are we really excellent? And so I love that because then it, we have to ask the question before we answer that, [00:16:00] how do we define excellence and who has defined it for us,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Because of this, not something that I've had a chance to put my input in to say, this is what black excellence is. It was already here before I got here. And then it's up to me to decide to say, yeah, I'm gonna lean into that

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: make this other definition of it what it could be for me. And like you said, am I responding out of a trauma response?

Right. Um, we're going down the road and this really great conversation and I. So, and this is going back to the question I'm asking. So you're talking about trauma. I want, I would love for you to ask, answer the question for us, like, how do you define burnout and um, and what does that typically look like?

Like if you have a specific example with some of your clients, like what does that look like for them? That maybe even black educators who aren't necessarily in the same like for-profit work or corporate, you could see them [00:17:00] also doing these same things.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Now, you know, it's like every time you start talking, I have something to say and I'm like, put a pin in that. Ask me about what is burnout in three minutes,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: I got you. I got you.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: yesterday. So my kids are on spring break. Yesterday I was sitting outside working on something on my iPad and it was just a beautiful day.

The sun was shining, it was warm. It's like one of those early spring days that's like foreshadowing this beautiful summer to come. Still a little cool, but like warm enough that you can sun bait. So I'm sitting outside. My eldest comes out and it's just like talking to me and we start having this conversation about. Just like how, just, just how hard it is to just exist in this world, right? Like we have deep conversations and Logan said, you know, sometimes I just like, I just like wish I were like a rock. I could just like sit here in the sun and just enjoy the sun and he listen to the flowers and not be required to [00:18:00] do anything to kind of like. my existence.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: enjoy, enjoy my existence and be like, enjoy the sunshine. Enjoy the things that are here for us that nobody has any time to enjoy. 'cause we're always, you know, onto the next. And I think in that moment, it, it just hit me while you were talking, wow, I must have somehow created a childhood that is at least. Doesn't, didn't have as the kind of trauma that I had where this child doesn't feel like they have to perform and, and, and live up to this excellence to be loved and accepted and seen and heard like their ideal. Obviously it's not the case is that's not what they're gonna do, um, because they understand like, this is the world we live in.

But to even be able to think, like, I don't even think I ever thought like that, like I think

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Just to dream about it.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: But

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.[00:19:00]

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: kid I was like, this is what I, who I am and what I gotta do and

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, sure.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: the best path. And for Logan to be able to even think like, that's something, there's something else. There's something bigger we're kind of all on this wheel. But for what? Um,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: anyway, it's like the whole trap of black excellence or the trap of excellence to prove who you are and to, to earn your place does not seem like it's there mentally, um, for, for them. And I'm like, kind of made me feel good. But, um. What is burnout and what are some of the signs? Burnout? Gosh, it's like when you hit that wall. When you hit that wall and you run outta room to do more. And it's, I think it looks like for some people, or some of the language you might have used in previous generations would've been a mental breakdown,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: [00:20:00] Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: not even to that degree, but just like she's, you know, not having a nervous breakdown, but just kind of like. Completely exhausted. And so the symptoms can be, a lot of clients will have physical symptoms because they're pushing themselves so hard,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: work-wise, that like they're neglecting their bodies and if they even have like a moment of rest, they might get sick or some sort of health challenge will manifest itself. Um, for me, when I'm experiencing burnout, I experience a lack of creativity, which is extremely, Alarming to me because like, I, I, that is who I am. I am a

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Sure. Yes.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: access with that core of myself, my personhood is like, oh, okay, we in some dangerous waters. And so I would say to people, whatever it is that makes you feel like you and, and tells you this is who I am.

When you can't [00:21:00] access that, that is kind of when we are in that danger zone.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Let's start with the part when you know you have burnout because of lack of creativity and that's alarming to you.

So let's start from there, please. Sorry.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: So I know for me, when I lose access with my creativity, that is my alarm to say, okay, we are in the danger zone. Because creativity is like almost how I define myself or measure myself. It's like my, my most authentic. of me, the core of me is creative. Creative about everything. I'm a creative parent.

I'm a creative writer.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: creative when it comes to music, how I design the day, how I'm teaching you, teaching my daughter the days of the week, like I'm coming up, coming up with a song, like I'm just creative. And so when I lose that, I know something is wrong. So I'd say anyone, whatever the thing about you, the trait about you that makes you feel. The most you, when you're not able to [00:22:00] access that, you know that you are in trouble. And so, um, rest is definitely, you know, as our friend, Octavia lets us know like it is revelatory because on the other side of that, we get answers and we get clarity and we can come back to ourselves.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. It's interesting that you said that you know that you're experiencing burnout. When you have this lack of creativity, and in order for you to know that you said the trait, the traits about you that um, are the most, you kind of goes to the background and the back burner, they disappear. They're still there, but they're kind of buried.

That would mean that folks would have to know the traits that make them, the most of them. Like have to have a place of like, I know who I am and have studied themselves enough to say I know who I am. And without anything else around me, without the influence of any o other [00:23:00] person, in order to even have that beacon go off to say, I'm burnt out and I wonder how many folks even understand and know themselves.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Well, that's a big, huge part of my work,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, talk. Talk about that, please.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: any, any. Any client I engage with, we, it starts with a deep dive, self-inquiry. I mean, it's almost, I was telling someone the other day, 'cause they were talking about, um, doing, uh, assessments, like career assessments or. I don't know what you Personality assessments. I told them I'm like a human assessment.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: when I work with people, I become their assessment. Um, 'cause I'm pulling out, I have a ton of questions that I ask to get to the heart of like, what have your patterns been throughout your whole life and what typically energizes you? What drains you? What turns you on?

What turns you off? Who, who you like being around. Who typically gets [00:24:00] your juices flowing and gets your ideas going, who kind of makes you feel unsafe and makes you feel like you need to retract or recoil. And so I personally believe that that. Self-knowledge, self-discovery, radical self-discovery is the key to everything because

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: what, what drives you, you also know what drains you and you can understand what you need to be doing so that you can live in alignment.

Like a lot of the people that come to me are out of alignment and misalignment leads to burnout. But also when you're out of alignment career wise, you are typically doing work that. Other people think is impressive or the world is giving you accolades for, but it just, something about it is off. You feel unfulfilled in some way. There's something missing. And so when you are kind of going against your own [00:25:00] natural inclinations or the truth of who you are enough, it kind of creates this friction that. Over time can exhaust you and lead you to burnout. But like starting with that self-discovery because it can help us figure out. Are you doing the work that you're meant to be doing? Is there another area that you maybe you should be pivoting towards? Are you being called to something that you have ignored and that you're not allowing yourself to explore? Because there is probably some untapped energy in that exploration that you're not allowing yourself to do. And so, um, knowing yourself like we, it's, it's unfortunate. I feel like, and you can speak to this as an educator being in the education space, I have always lamented how. We teach our kids so many things,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Um,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: teach them how to understand themselves. We don't teach them

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: yeah.[00:26:00]

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: to know their strengths and, and really see themselves outside of like this assembly line of, we are all the same.

We're all learning the same things. We're all kind of getting molded the same way. And I know that a lot of that is standardization. The standardization of education. You are like, it's anti personalization, but I. need, I mean, especially for the times that we're moving in, I think we need to know ourselves now, um, even more.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, I feel like folks who youth adults who do understand themselves are on that journey. It definitely is not in the school building there. It's definitely on their own time, um, in different conversations outside of the workplace for some people and for school, the schoolhouse for other people. Um. And so on that same note, thinking about, so we are obviously not talking about forms of trauma when [00:27:00] we talk about educators and the support that they need, and you talk about burnout and trauma as two different things.

Is that correct?

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Yes, for

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yes. And I, I wanna clear, I mean, that seems clear to me, but I want the audience to understand that these aren't the same. But for folks who are experiencing burnout, um. What are some steps that you would think would be helpful for them to come back from that burnout to be, to start to feel refreshed and renewed in their spirits?

Um, we love and if you like, as many as you could share. 'cause I know that our audience is mostly in education and folks may be thinking about leaving, may wanna stay and make another career. They're in different parts of their lives. And also we're talking to. Allies who are not black educators, but want to support their educators in, in these schools,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: like to probably pass some of this information on to their, to their staff or their [00:28:00] colleagues.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I think the first thing that you have to address is, it's almost like triage, right? If you

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: and you're bleeding, you have a gunshot wound, wound wound, and you're bleeding out, they're going to address that fir, like they've gotta stop the bleeding. And I think in terms of stopping the bleeding of burnout, you really. really need an extended period of rest, and so to the point that you can take a sabbatical, highly recommend that like the more time that you can get. Away from your routine to reset your nervous system and to reset your routine and, and change some of your habits, the better. I know that's not accessible or realistic for everyone, but I think, you know, if you can, if you can even take a week or two to kind of do the triage, just try to patch yourself up.

But in the interim. [00:29:00] Um, aside from simply resting, whatever that looks like for you, like for some people it's sleeping. For some people it's creativity. Like, I think there's different ways to rest. really do have to address what isn't working, what's out of alignment in your life to the degree that you can, so that you can make changes so that you don't just end up back in the same place.

So I'll give you an example. I was working with a lady, um, a few months ago who was recently laid off and she took advantage of one of, I was doing this, um, series for February where I was working with people to just find clarity and alignment one-on-one. So we'd do a session and just kind of figure out, well, what is your plan? You know, let's get clear on what, what are you trying to do and let's

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: So we had the session and I remember, you know, she's saying, okay, I have some, I have some runway, I have some time. start looking for another [00:30:00] job. I wanna start maybe looking for an executive director or A-A-C-E-O role because, and we kind of got to the root of, well, why do you want that role?

And it was really because of some of the trauma that existed in, in the previous roles where she was kind of supporting and doing the work of the leader, but not getting the, the shine.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: in the background, she has some chronic health issues that really make it difficult for her to work in an office environment.

So it's like, and chronic health issues, as many of them are is, is exacerbated by stress.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Sure.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: So she's putting herself in these like work situations that are extremely stressful, aggravating her health condition, and then she's having to take off like a lot of time because she physically can't show up to work. And so between managing this health issue, managing the [00:31:00] demanding work schedule, she didn't really have much else going on. You know, no social life, no love, life, family life. Um, really nothing outside of work. And she was coming to me for help to, to chart out a plan for more work. And when she was honest about the things that she wanted, she said she wanted a relationship, a partner.

She eventually wanted to have a family. She was getting older. She would like to have children. She would like to have time to be able to go to yoga a week or twice a week. would like to be able to take a 30 minute lunch or like some of the things she was saying that were so. Small, like they weren't big ask.

Well, the big, the, the, the marriage and kids, that's not small. But in terms of like what would a good working environment look like? just really basic stuff. But towards the end of the session, I told her [00:32:00] that I. We cannot design a plan for you to tackle the next phase of your career until you triage your life. you gotta get your health under control. You can't back burner that. You know what I mean? You can't just say like, I lemme get this job and then I do. No, because you are literally, your body is rebelling against these stressful situations that you're

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: have some time right now off work. Get your health together. Start doing the things that, like in an ideal world, you would do for yourself. You get out, you take a walk, you'd be in the sunshine for at least an hour every day. You go to yoga twice a week. Do that, put that on the calendar. You would meet up with friends. You'd have coffee or lunch, maybe twice a week to just kind of start rebuilding those connections that have fallen by the wayside because you've spent every. Waking minute in work or being sick,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: make a plan to date [00:33:00] or reconnect with old friends, but like start getting the infrastructure of a healthy life in place because honestly, I told her, I was like, I don't even know who you really are because you ain't even, you, you like a skeleton of you.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yes.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: get some, you know, some meat on your bones and you're like, you can think clearly from a healthy place. We can't, I, we can't move forward with planning about your career. 'cause you, not even you right now. You are like falling apart. And she was just like, hmm hmm. And so honestly, I was like, I hope that she found that help and I hope she took the advice I heard back from her recently. She was just like, oh my God, I've been doing everything.

I, she put herself on a little plan like we identified during our session and she's feeling so much better. And so I feel like. Now she can think clearly about like, well, what does business look like? What does career look like? She can set goals that are coming from a place of like and health [00:34:00] versus let me over index on work because work is the only thing in my life that brings me any sense of or

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: that I'm contributing anything else to in the world.

And I told her. The reason why you're putting all your chips on work is because you've always put all your chips on work. So work is the only card you have to play. Like you don't, you don't have anything, you haven't developed anything outside of work

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: to say like, you know what? I'd rather do this or I'd rather do that work is all, you know. So what would happen if you were intentional about developing those other parts of yourself and those other areas of your life? What would you want then? I. What would your decisions look like then? Coming from a place of, I have friendships that I have to prioritize. a love life. I have a child, I have a family. I have, I'm a part of a community. I can't work 15 hours a day. I [00:35:00] have to be, I have people I'm there for and who are there for me. I have hobbies that I'm invested in. I have to make sure I get to yoga. Well, I gotta have time to cook my vegetables. You know what I.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, no, that makes sense.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: You see what I'm saying? So I don't even know what the question was, but

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: I mean, the question what, what you're ask you're answering is really right on is like what can educators, black educators who are experiencing burnout do? And it goes back to what you said. Yeah. It goes back to. Your work is not everything. And I think that for so many of us, we went through high school, college, elementary school, pre, and the whole focus is to go to work.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Yep.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: so when the work is finally here, we make it everything because we've been in school for so long to do that thing.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: many hours per day. And you're saying, which I agree with is there is more to this life than. A classroom or a principal's [00:36:00] office or the next step, and I'm quoting here, that makes the dean role or so on and so forth.

And we have to take time to understand who we are and those and what's more important to than, than the work.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Who we are and what we need. You know, it's like,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: describing, it's like that, that pipeline, right? You know, elementary school, make honor roll, make principals this,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: get into college, get a scholarship, get a full ride college, you know? It just keeps going. And I personally believe that the powers that be, you know, would love it if we just kept chasing the next thing until

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yes.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: And then we

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yes.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: we are old people and it's like, oh, what was. I never got to this place that I thought I was running to

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: new place to run to until I finally got so old that like my value was diminished to the system, and the system put me out to [00:37:00] pasture. And now I'm just here and I have not developed anything else about myself.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Huh? What would I

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Can, let's pause. That's so real. That is so real. What's the next step? What's the next thing on the pay scale? What's the next opportunity? Until the system says you are no longer valuable, and now you have,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: up.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: yeah, now you have nothing but time because someone else told you, or some system told you that you're no longer of value to it.

So go find value in yourself. Ooh,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: And now you like, well, uh. I don't know how to do that. No one ever taught me how to do that. I've only

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: value in the system or find my value in the system, or contribute my value to the system. I don't even know what. You know, like Logan's version of, of sitting being a rock and sitting in the, I don't even know what that is.

I don't know what I want. I don't, [00:38:00] people are so disconnected from their desires, their hungers, their

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: They don't even know what they want. And so imagine you just. You play by the rules. You follow this script and you just chase the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. And then you get put out the pasture and then you're like, what do I want?

I don't know. You

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: muscle of knowing atrophy like you, so it's kind of like, how difficult would it be? I mean, I know it's not impossible. You see on Instagram all the time where they're like, it's never too late to start lifting weights. Right? Look at this

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: like, how much harder would that be? Never having lifted weight and then at 80 deciding I'm gonna start heavy weights. That seems hard. And so

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: in the same way of developing that muscle of self knowledge, like I encourage my kids, you know, I'm like, y'all need to know who you are. You need to understand. [00:39:00] you can extract value from your creativity from the world, like you always should have options.

This is what you're good at. This is what excites you. This is what you need to be your best to be productive, like study yourself. I'm studying you, I'm mirroring back to you, but you also need to know what works best for you because it's like in the absence of that self-knowledge and understanding, you're always going to be looking to someone else to slot you in to their. Equation, whether or not that is the best fit for you, whether or not that is an in alignment with your energy, with your goals, with your needs, with your values. And I think honestly, that's where a lot of us are right now. We're at this inflection point where. People are going to have to start getting entrepreneurial.

They're

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: start looking at like alternative ways to make income. And one of the problems that I see the most is the same way, like we [00:40:00] develop that muscle memory to take instruction and be told what to do. To make things happen is nonexistent, so people don't have the sense

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: this podcast and you we're here doing things, you got the website, and it's like you have created an ecosystem to engage with the world on your terms. A lot of people are simply used to taking orders, being told what to do. Meetings are put on their calendars. They show up. And I mean, not to disparage that, but I'm saying it's like a mindset.

You have to find ways. So I encourage anyone who's listening to this, whether you have a full-time job, you work for someone, or you don't create something on your own

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: as evidence to show you like, Hey, I can make things happen. I can

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: I'm alive. Yes.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I can put something in the world.

And people respond, wow. Like my middle child bakes cookies and. And cinnamon rolls and all sorts of things. And I love that [00:41:00] for him because he, he, he taught himself how to bake from watching YouTube videos and

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: the stuff is good and he might take it to school or take it to somewhere, take it to church and. People are like, oh, will you make something for me? And he is like, oh, okay. Makes, makes a batch of cookies, sells it. And now he's like, oh, I can, I

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: I can keep going. I have a skill.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I can do. like that little things like that, that's not even a small thing, but like engaging with the world. On your own terms with your own like agency saying, I'm doing this thing. Nobody, nobody told me I had to do it. Nobody, you know, said like, these are the rules to, to life and to what you must do. I said, I'm choosing to make and create and offer something to the world. It builds your confidence in a way that I don't think we realize, and we really need that in times like this.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, I love this. And I [00:42:00] also think about if those of us who are raising children, nieces, nephews, whoever, whatever, grandkids. Yeah. Those folks also get to see us in this creative way and it disrupts in their life this, it has to be a certain way.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: to reflect and say, no, my granny is doing this different thing.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: working, but she also does this, or she doesn't wanna work there anymore. And she's chosen to pivot and be, go into something else and they get to see. And the on the back end and the behind the scenes, what it means to disrupt this kind of constant thinking of, well, the next step is this and the next step is that.

Right. And I, I love, I love that you're saying this because you're, and I think too, I. Yeah, it's really cool to have someone say, oh my God, your food is so good, and have that acknowledgement. But even to say like, I made that,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: even if I, no one ever sees it, but I did this. This came out of my brain and it's in my [00:43:00] hand, or it's on my computer or wherever it lives.

It belongs to me and no one can take that from me. And it doesn't belong in a system. It doesn't belong in a professional development. It does not. It doesn't. Yeah, that's, I love that. I love, love, love that. It is, yes.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: that you unlock when you activate your. Power to make things happen. It's, it's, think, you know, I, I've been pondering this a lot because I, I think a lot about, you know, what, what is here, what is coming, what is necessary, what's needed for the moment to meet this moment, what my kids need to be doing or planning for in terms of the future.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: who's going to survive

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: you know the next. What have you. And I think it really is people who are building this muscle and I [00:44:00] even for myself, I'm like, okay, I need to like ramp it up. I need to like lean, like literally, was thinking of this this morning actually. Those of us who maybe did experience trauma in childhood and so, you know, or, or used to uncertainty in the home. This is, we were built for this, we were built for this moment.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I think when you, when when you're used to things being a little bit too prescribed and you're just used to following the plan or you're used to everything going your way, or you're

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: you what to do, you do it and it works.

They tell you what to do, you do it and it works. And that's just all, you know, it's easy to like freak out during a moment like this, but we are. A lot of us come from situations where that was not the case. And so this is something I was just reminding myself of recently. It's like you, you, you were [00:45:00] formed in uncertainty and so. You know how to, to step up. Like, don't forget just because things may have evolved and gotten more comfortable. Don't forget your roots. Don't forget that you know how to pivot. You know how to move. You know how to observe. You know how to read people, you know how to read situations. You, you know how to read the tea leaves.

You know how to read the signs and be like,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: that's, I need to fall back on this. Dial up that like you, we have these skills that I think we. It can be painful to activate because we got them during painful times, but we got them nonetheless, and they're there for us. so that's another piece. I think that we are a lot more powerful than we realized, and we may have to dig in the crates and go back to memories and versions of ourselves that, that we're able to push through and make, make things happen.

But at least we have that to [00:46:00] access.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah. That's right, that's right. And, and in all the work that you're talking about and really this chance for us to step back and to move slowly and deeply and think about who we are and why that matters and create and to just be in the sun and to be a rock and to

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: and all that. What do you see the role of, um.

What do you see the role of community and collective care playing in this, like this journey to discover oneself or re rediscover oneself or continually reiterating that discovery?

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I think the, the community and the collective is a huge piece that has been neglected. You know, for most people who are in, well, most people period, but especially people in burnout. Like that's one of the realignments that I write about in the rest revolution. Restoring your connection to community and your connections with other people, your energy generating relationships, because so much of. [00:47:00] What ails us, aside from us needing to activate our agency and our ability to make things happen, we also have to activate the support that is available to us from our communities. Um, I know I've heard a lot about like we heal in community. I know for me, the best healing that I've done has been through relationships with other people. One of the biggest things that I'm learning to do is to ask for help, to lean on support. I mean, even for this book Candidly. Um, my book came out my grandmother passed away on the same day,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: so the months leading up to the books released, like all of that kind of anticipation and building up, it just, it kind of just flat release day because I was then just plunged into grief and, um. My community, my network has really been the reason why this message has reached as many people as it [00:48:00] has. It's the reason we're here today, right?

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, that's right.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: You know, Octavia Raheem connected you and I, and now we're on this podcast, and that is every, almost every example of the opportunities to share this message in the last few months have come from community and have come from people saying, Hey, have you met Amanda?

Or.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm-hmm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: about this new book. Let me tell you about this amazing woman that you need to know, or the two of you could make some magic together. And so just imagine if you know every week we're, we are sending emails like that of introduction to

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: come together and build community.

Every single week we do that, and every single week someone's doing it on our behalf. Just imagine like the ripple effects of that. I think. I think that is so incredibly powerful. I think that's another form of [00:49:00] wealth that we don't recognize that we have, because whenever things are dire, if you literally just. Get on a Zoom with five people in your network, or even 10 people in your network. By the end of those conversations, somebody knows something, like somebody

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: That's exactly right.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: you know, a line to somebody who's hiring, somebody who needs a consultant, somebody who needs a podcast, somebody who needs a speaker, and they going to pay like whatever we need is in community. so I think that's a another thing that we've gotta do, and I try to instill this in my kids as well. It's like, you know, as you connect, as you meet people on your academic journey and on your like volunteer extracurricular journey, connect with these people. Set up your LinkedIn profile, connect with them and

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: in touch and in good grade.

'cause you're gonna, that's your wealth to be able to send a note or to make a call and say, [00:50:00] Hey, do you know anything about this opportunity? Can you write me a recommendation letter?

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: that's exactly right.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: for what I should do? I just sent an email out like that yesterday to, um, the head of a, an organization where Logan has been like a student leader.

It's an environmental organization. I said, Hey, do you know of any. Scholarships geared towards, you know, the envi students of the environment, environmentalists and sustainability minded students. Um, do you know of any summer jobs? Like what do you know? I think that's something that if, if you're not accessing it more, you should just, like my client that I mentioned, I told her, I was like, in addition to your health, you have got to restore your connections with people because you. All your balls are in the court of work, and we've gotta, you, you, you have mentally put yourself there, but you know, people, you just gotta reactivate those relationships and remind people that you're here, you know, of what [00:51:00] you're interested in, of what you want to do, so that they know how to support you. And too many of us neglect that part and not because we just want to neglect it and we don't. We don't like our relationships, but remember if it's not making money and if it's not deemed productive, we feel like it's a waste of time because we can't afford to take time away from the tasks that are generating revenue or,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: you know, are deemed important by whoever is cutting our checks. But that's, it's a shame because there's so much on the other side of that connection.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: That that is absolutely right. And I think I wanna add a second or another layer to that is I think that some of us were raised in households where you don't tell people your business,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Oh yeah.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: right? Like don't go out there running your mouth, don't tell people your business. And so. Yeah. And so because of folk, our, our ancestors, our grandparents, our parents thought that was a protective factor.

Now, many of us [00:52:00] feel like. It's hard to go out and then ask people for something or to tell someone what's going on because we are not in the habit of getting support outside of perhaps our spouse or just a very small group of people, or no one at all. And so we have to also contend with that of what are they gonna say?

What if they gonna, they might tell somebody, I don't want everybody to know 'em. And tho, tho, really the chattering of our. Our ancestors, many of us who tried to protect us, but it's not serving us now. And so like how do we quiet that chatter so that we can. Like you just said, restore your connections with people and community, and we can only do that if we sit and understand ourselves and where that comes from.

Right? Whether that be, like you said, just because of work, work, work, work, work, or it's because of histories and community, or lack of trust, or a combination of both. I'm so glad that you shared that. Thank you. [00:53:00] Yeah. I think that I have two questions, and these are the questions I typically ask everyone, whether they were in education or

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Hmm.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: like you serving communities in different ways.

The first question is, is there a black educator that you would like to shout out

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: When I saw that question, I was like, oh, can I say it without crying? Yes. I

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: real. That's so real.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I would like to shout out my late grandmother Eel Miller. Who was a third grade teacher in the Emanuel County School Systems in Emanuel County, Georgia, but she was a lifelong educator and lover of children and at her service. She had a num, she was 94 when she passed, but a number of former students, she taught [00:54:00] third grade. So people she taught third grade were there

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: talked about her impact. And you know, one of the things that I took away from her service was because she was a, a woman of modest means, was not wealthy by any means, but. The church was packed and the stories were plentiful

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: of her impact. to be a person who is in community, who has dedicated their lives to helping other people, she was one of my role models just for service. I remember when we would visit for the summer, she would, um, have us volunteering, you know, as little children going to help the elderly and. Packing bags for the food bank and just doing all sorts of things. But as an educator, I mean, I think when you are an educator at heart, doesn't stop when [00:55:00] you leave the classroom. And so she was always teaching us, um, me specifically, and I'm just. I took so many lessons from her and so I wanted to shout her out because she's not a famous educator by any means, but, um, has impacted many, many people and is still impacting the lives of people who still roam the earth even though she no longer does.

So I would say my grandmother.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Thank you for, uh, giving me a place to just put her name in the atmosphere, because I

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Of course.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: whenever I can. She

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, of course. No, no, no. I love that and I love that, like you said, what she's taught children. And now they're adults obviously, and maybe have their own grandchildren.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: still here. It's rippling.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: their mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Beautiful.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: That's

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: It is,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: [00:56:00] an educator, you know? I just, uh, yeah. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: yeah. Thank you.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: our last question for you, what does it mean to be well?

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: What does it mean to be, well, you know, I think it evolves for me, but. To feel like I am in touch with that core of myself, as I mentioned earlier, that I have the space to create the space and room and bandwidth to pour into my relationships. I feel aligned, you know, when it comes to the work that I'm doing. I just, I don't know. I feel like a sense of balance and peace and I'm, I'll be honest, like it's, it's a stressful time.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: stressful season at present. Um, but I do lean into my own [00:57:00] wellness and stillness practices, so I might feel well for a moment or for an hour and then go back into the drama of all the things,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I am. I'm looking forward to a more longstanding and sustainable sense of that, um, that sense of wellness, the time, the space, the resources to really just lean into my writing, my kids, my health and wellness and all the things. I mean, I think overall I feel well because. Everything that I just mentioned to you, those are all the big parts of my life, but it's just like we're in a, a period of transition for many of the people in my household.

So, um, I think it's to be expected to feel kind of like, oh,

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yeah, load disheveled.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: a little bit, you know, things gotta settle back down, but. It's, it's a season and I saw [00:58:00] this somewhere and it maps to like the purpose Scaping philosophy that I write about in the book. It's like, this is just a season and every season changes.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Love that.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: okay, I'm gonna hold onto that.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Yes, I love that. I'm gonna write that down. Um, thank you so much for coming on the show, Amanda.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: Thank you for having me. This was so

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: Mm. Yeah.

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: to people. I hope

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: I,

amanda_1_03-26-2025_152842: I hope they got as much out of it as we did.

dr--asia-lyons---she-her-_1_03-26-2025_132842: I feel like, yeah. Listen, that counts two people, all two of us. Yeah. Um, folks, y'all need to go out and grab the rest revolution. How to reclaim your rhythm and conquer burnout when overworking has become the norm by Amanda Miller.

Littlejohn, the book, if you're looking on YouTube, she's holding the book up. Go grab that book. Read it. Buy a copy for someone else, share it. Um, put it out in community, get it in your book clubs, share it in your, in [00:59:00] your church halls. All the things we need to take care of ourselves. We need to take care of community, and this is the way that we can start to do that.

And yeah, we'll see on the next episode. Thank you for listening to the exit interview of podcast for black educators. Peace out y'all.