On to Higher Ground with Dr. William Anderson

On To Higher Ground with Dr. William Anderson

Dr. Asia Lyons: I have not seen that movie in a long time.

Amen. Amen. Turn the fan down. Kevin, my whole, my co host Kevin is, he hyped today and I appreciate it because I need your energy on this Sunday evening. Today's podcast host or guest not host guest. Can we start over please?[00:02:00]

Hey everyone, it's asia and kevin we're back. Episode number. Is this three Kevin for us? I was trying to

Kevin Adams: think about it, but I think it's three. I think we're on episode three.

Dr. Asia Lyons: So today we're having Dr. William Anderson on our podcast. He is dope. He's done some great work in the republic schools. He's going to share his story about what it is that had him shift from.

Being a classroom teacher and doing some work in a social studies department, his school over to now working at the university and higher education level, just a super dope conversation. What do you think about it, Kevin?

Kevin Adams: I think it's, I think it's a really good conversation. I think. It's a great contrast to some of the other stories that we have had.

I will go ahead and let the listeners know. Break the fourth wall. Will is a close [00:03:00] friend of the podcast, an FOP, right? There is lots of love shared throughout this episode. And it feels like a reunion in some ways. But also, I think it's an important story of like how to cultivate black leadership, which I think is important, but also raises some other questions.

When we think about the other stories that we've heard and I think really boiling it down to we've had a great conversation about the differences between the experiences of Black males in the classroom, black man educators and black female educators or people identify as female. I think there's a lot to this conversation.

I think it's a great one. I think people will sit back, listen, and enjoy, tales of educational mercenaries that led to ultimate liberation, which, and here's a. Here's a little spoiler alert people. This episode pushes me a little closer to making a decision [00:04:00] on where do I go with my

Dr. Asia Lyons: audience?

Kevin says that every episode, I don't want y'all to get excited out here in these streets.

Kevin Adams: Keep them listening. Don't say, Hey, they never know. Maybe there's a big announcement at the end.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Listen, I just want to say at the end, wherever the edges. It's not nowhere. I don't know where the edge is.

Kevin Adams: Can you give a, can you give a resignation letter through a podcast?

No, I'm just kidding. My principal be like, no, I don't like this. I don't like this. Stop talking about this. I'm going to stop this episode right now. Keep listening. Principal. We love you.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Let's roll episode three.

Kevin Adams: Let's go. So here we are, folks. We are back and we are here with our amazing guest today. One of the most impactful brothers in the education field.

I, I, in my honest opinion, dr. William Anderson. We are so happy to hear you. Here today on the [00:05:00] exit interview with us. I know Asia is excited. I'm excited. Every time, our producer Herardo is excited. Every time your name comes up, we get excited because we rock with you hard body karate.

Welcome to the body karate hard body karate. That's right. That's right. So welcome. Welcome to the exit interview. We're excited to hear your story. Knowing that all the stories like as people should know, black people are not monolithic. And so all of our stories are not the same. And We'll just jump into this.

First tell us about like your educational path, your path into the classroom. You know what motivated you to become an educator, a black educator. Yeah, let's hear

Dr. William Anderson: it. First and foremost, thank you all so much for having me on. It's nice to be able to share this type of space with folks that I [00:06:00] have just as much love for as you got for me.

It's just an honor and a privilege truly. So how did I get into education? I figured out I wanted to be a teacher when I was in the, I think it was the eighth grade, because I had a teacher, a social studies teacher. Mr. G and Mr. G at Laredo Middle School made me like a weird, awkward, who I thought was cool as hell, but probably wasn't kid feel super cool and feel loved and feel appreciated.

Yes. And made social studies like some cool stuff. So like I knew. And it was weird I remember that I could tell you the day I made the decision. It was when my mom had some friends over and like a a wonderful mom. She was, she paraded me in front of her friends and was like, yo, William, tell them what you want to be when you grow up, and I was like, I want to be an accountant. And she was [00:07:00] like, all right, now go make yourself busy. Yes. Yeah. Classic, right? Classic, right? Yeah, you did your thing. I get the hell out. Then I left and as I was like putting my shoes on in the garage. In my head, I was like, I don't want to be an accountant.

You know what I mean? But I said it knew like adults thought that was a good thing to want to be. And I was like, man, really, I want to be a teacher. And so I kicked my shoes off, put back inside and was like, excuse me, y'all. They were like, yeah. I want to make a clarification. I do not want to be an accountant.

I want to be a teacher when I grew up. And they were like, okay, now back to getting the hell out of here.

Kevin Adams: What

Dr. Asia Lyons: I'm saying?

Dr. William Anderson: They were like, all straight up. That was it. That was when, and I knew from there that I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be a social studies teacher.

I wanted to be a high school studies teacher. You know what I mean? So it was all about making that come true after that. High school was all right. I was not a [00:08:00] great student. I think I blew everybody's socks off with my 2. 7 GPA. Oh, 2. 7

Kevin Adams: club. There we go.

Dr. William Anderson: Holding it down with a 17 on the ACT after taking it twice.

Me too.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Me too.

Dr. William Anderson: And that got me into none of the schools that were my first choice.

Kevin Adams: As my mom said, I graduated. Thank you, Lordy.

Dr. William Anderson: Straight up. Straight up. Thank you, Lordy. Ended up going to UNC up in Greeley.

Had a wonderful time. I party like a rock star and did no school. Yes. Yes. I know that.

Kevin Adams: Because I went to Greeley for my freshman year. And I say that intentionally because at the, I got the letter [00:09:00] at the end, my dad woke me up June. I remember like June fit. What's this letter you've been put on academic probation.

Oh yeah. I was like. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't, I did not finish up there, but I could relate. I know I would have been, oh man, I know, but see, there's a reason why I always connect with you. I always can connect

Dr. William Anderson: with you. But man, check this out. I got the same letter and I tried, I gave them one more year.

Yes. Actually. And then they wouldn't even take my mom, my money no more. You

Dr. Asia Lyons: know I say something, William? Yeah. Kevin, I got the letter too. I got the letter too. What's

Kevin Adams: that say? What's that

Dr. Asia Lyons: say? What's that? That old say, obviously

Kevin Adams: we made it out here. That's what's up. That's what's up.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, my second year I got that letter.

I need to bring

Kevin Adams: that up to my dad. I need to bring it. I need to be, because I remember that day when he was like, he came, knocked on my bedroom door It was like, I was like, [00:10:00] at least I'm back in this and I have the summer. I have no class. He was like we ain't playing this. He's look,

Dr. William Anderson: if you, if

Kevin Adams: you can't, if you can't do college, then we got to do something different that day.

I had to get a job. I got a job at the pizza shop like that. Oh man. So like we all got the letter. All right. That doesn't surprise like that system's not made for us. No, we

Dr. William Anderson: had to learn. I do have to take some personal responsibility. I did partying and hanging out a lot. Yes. Yes. It was my shit.

It was freedom.

Kevin Adams: Freedom. First time it was,

Dr. William Anderson: it was, I had two great parents who didn't let me while out really. That's right. That's right. High school. So I got to college and lost it, totally. But after getting thrown out of UNC, I came down to Metro. Same here, same story. One of my brothers who went to Morehouse came back, and I was partying like a rockstar in Metro too, because now I got the city, yes,

Kevin Adams: Yeah, you [00:11:00] actually have something that's not just the courthouse, not just the courthouse.

Dr. William Anderson: You know what I'm saying? I'm wilding out in the city, but then my brother comes back from Morehouse yo, you got to read this book. I wasn't much for book reading at the time, but he was like, yo, you got to read this. And he gave me the autobiography of Malcolm X. Yes. Read that and was like, oh man, I gotta do better.

Transformational. Yeah, absolutely transformational. Made me realize I was, like, not doing what I needed to do, not doing what I thought was manhood, but was just like, just a little boy in a 21, 22 year old body. You know what I'm saying? Yep. Yep. And, I knew I wouldn't be able to be a teacher without finishing school, and like I didn't have a desire really to do anything else.

So I went from being like not interested in school to being like all the way in, a complete 180, and just started consuming as much information as I could, like including like my undergrad in [00:12:00] history, all that coursework. My secondary teaching licensure, all that coursework. But Malcolm had me diving into my own black history.

Something, just everything. A side is by autobiography.

James Baldwin, Tony Moore. Like you named the hitters. You keep going

Kevin Adams: deeper. It's a spiral. You just keep going deeper and you realize we have this collective knowledge that's so

Dr. William Anderson: powerful. Absolutely. Absolutely. Some W E B's from Carter G some Stoke, like everything I had to have it, yes. Graduated and I was working at a wheat rich high school at the time. Like when I graduated, I wasn't working there. I did my student teaching there. Cause I had an amazing mentor there, Stephanie Rossi, who still to this day, I think is the best high school teacher I've ever seen. Who I've still all everything I do in the classroom.

I got from Stephanie Rossum [00:13:00] finished with my undergrad. They told me or one of the other ones, Miss puree, another teacher who I actually student top four was like, I went right into my masters. I was like I'm gonna go right into my masters. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So got a job there as a pair. It while I was getting my master's degree in cricket section for the University of Phoenix, and I think that Time that year and a half of being a para is what actually made me a great teacher, a good teacher, a better than average teacher.

Yes. What do you mean?

Dr. Asia Lyons: I'm sorry, because you're watching this what to say and I cut you off and say what made you say that. Say what? That being a para during that time made you the best teacher.

Dr. William Anderson: Oh, it just taught me that students live on a intellectual spectrum. You know what I mean? Yep. There was this idea like your coursework in school doesn't teach you how diverse of learners and [00:14:00] people that students are.

You know what I mean? It makes it seem as if everybody has the same. Capability or saying level of understanding or way to learn and understand, but being a para and working with students who just needed a little extra help to students who couldn't go to the bus by themselves because they get on the wrong bus, but they're 17 years old, just taught me like, Oh, you have to be ready for all of this, so that coupled with the master's work, it really got my brain ready to dive into my first job, which was at MLK early college teaching social studies. It was a dream come true. Yes. Yes. It was an absolute dream come true. It was crazy.

I got the phone call offering me the job on my birthday. All right. So it was, I was, it was really dope working for like Alan Smith Nick Dawkins, Tony Smith, Krim Grayson[00:15:00] with the incredible dream team that

Kevin Adams: I wish I had leaders like that. I have no disrespect to my leaders that I've had whatever, but I ain't had no leaders like

Dr. William Anderson: that.

It was crazy. It was, I got super, super lucky and really empowered in that space too. So I remember my first year of teaching, I didn't want to teach the geography class, the way that the content and curriculum had been set up. Yep. My man, Nick was like, then do what you feel like you got to do.

Oh yeah. He was like, yeah. So I've got my first taste of writing curriculum and building assessments, literally my first year of teaching, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's dope. Stop. Yeah,

Dr. Asia Lyons: I would say that is so powerful because it took a while before that was my experience of being on the right curriculum.

I remember my first year. I held on to that anthology because I taught fifth and fourth grade, and I was just like so bad a book and didn't even think about writing [00:16:00] doing something different. Hadn't even questioned it didn't even think about it and. I think that having an opportunity to teach the curriculum that I wrote on my own before I left teaching really changed a lot of things for me.

And I'm so glad to have had the opportunity. But I can see that so many educators don't either they don't want to for fear of whatever, or they never get a chance to write their own curriculum and really see what they're made of. And explore authors and explore texts that, a lot of kids will have never been able to touch at that grade or in that type of

Dr. William Anderson: coursework.

And you know what's crazy too, Asia, is that it wasn't even my choice. Like the kids put it on me. Yeah. Those freshmen, I went to teach a geography class and they were like, they saw, I was passing the textbook out for it, it was Geography Alive, which is a real trash textbook hopefully they're not a sponsor of the show.

No. And they were like, what, we got to read this, man, we had this book in seventh grade. I was like, what should we read? It was like 7th grade is the [00:17:00] first half of the book, 9th grade is the

Kevin Adams: second half. How the kids even knew that? That's so funny, the kids knew that. And

Dr. William Anderson: they were like, this shit is whack.

I was like, alright yeah, we're not gonna do this then. You know what I'm saying? It wasn't even nothing that was me. It was the kids, man. Those freshmen are some of the most beautiful, meaningful, brilliant life changing human beings that I ever encountered. Had the opportunity to meet, if it wasn't for, because I was with them, their freshman year through their graduation. And I feel like I graduated into being a teacher when they graduated by that, by the end of that fourth year, I was like, I think I know how to do this thing. I know exactly what you're talking about. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just love those kids. Love, love them. Some of them still just crazy close to they babysit my children. My son's birthday is on the 25th, and they come back. They're gonna be here for his birthday. [00:18:00] A good handful of them. That's what's up. That's what's up. That kid, they bringing they kids.

So my kids is growing up with they kids. You know what I'm saying? Just just really special group. I love that.

Kevin Adams: I love that. I think there's something important about your story. First I think that para experience and this is something more and more like every day and I'm in year 17 but becomes more real and realer.

That the kids have different ways of thinking, right? And my job and I often ask this and Gerardo, like my teachers who work with me always joke, that I've be, I will say it. I don't even know what we're doing. I don't even know what education is. I can't even tell you like, what am I doing?

What day to day? I don't know what we're doing. I do not know because at times there are lessons that are being learned or, and learning that happens. That, that I'm just so fascinated by. And it's because like you said, the kids have different ways of demonstrating their knowledge and their [00:19:00] understanding.

So like right now, this year, I have a kid who will not write, he will always be like, read to me and write for me. And I, and it's cool. But this kid has like the most amazing auditory memory and like he and he is such a great talker. So like you go back to the importance of and I think this goes to my second point about your story is how black history was a catalyst for you and it helped you see yourself as a scholar, it gave you the subject.

And I think every kid, for you it was black history, but every kid has a catalyst for something that potentially will help them see themselves as a scholar. And so I hope that people understand. When we can allow kids to tap into what lets them see themselves as a scholar what do they get obsessed with, and what can they talk about?

And I know sometimes you're like, dang, this kid won't stop talking about anime. But let 'em, that's what they, that's they, if they [00:20:00] tell you every character, I got the greatest conversation 'cause my kids are recommending anime. And they were debating about should, I should? No, don't let him watch that.

That's not what you start him with. Start him with this. Start get him into the, he told you he likes silly slapstick comedy, so we don't, he doesn't want the depressing romance stories. But I think, but your story is really important. I think people need to understand that we talk about, and I know this goes, this is the anti exit interview part, how we get black teachers in the classroom, or more teachers of color in the classroom, it's helping young people see themselves as scholars.

Dr. William Anderson: I was really lucky. I had great mentors who helped train me up. You know what I mean? I wouldn't have been able to write my own curriculum if I wouldn't have had a baller department chair who I would go to lunch with every day. Yeah. He would help me, you know what I'm saying? My craft down [00:21:00] and be like, yo, this is good.

This is trash. Here, let's both build one and we'll teach this class, and we ethnic studies to the school because me and her wanted to plan it out and do it and me being able to watch her and how she had done it for so long. And soak up that game from her. That was huge.

And then having an administrator like Nick and Tony and like Alan and then Ms. Grace and Ms. Scales who just helped build me up. Brother Hall, who's my other AP, who was over our social studies, who really gave me autonomy. He was like, yo, do what you gotta do, man. You know what I mean? When I became the department chair and a senior team lead at the school, he was very much yo.

You seem like you got it. So just do it. You know what I'm saying? I'm not here to, let's go away. If you need help, get help.

Christian

next level. Like I, I left MLK after five years [00:22:00] to go with Nick over to Manuel. Yes. And with a few other of us. And when I got there, Christian Moreland was my coach and she was like, you're pretty good. You do all the little, the distinguished whatever. She was like, but you could probably be better.

And I was like, oh, okay excuse me. You know what I'm saying? I thought I was doing it. And she was like, you are, but are you happy with where you're at? I'm like, nah. So she used to whip my butt, man. She used to kick my butt in my over my lesson plans over my assessments. This is what are you actually assessing?

How do you know? How are you going to measure it? And she was the one who like made me forced me to dig into my data better forced me to really be intentional with the tasks that I was putting on my students and just really made me Take my craft to that next level. You know what I mean?

So I got a big up those supports like that and having the opportunity to have that autonomy. One of my professors once said [00:23:00] currency is the no performance is the currency of autonomy. That's right. You know what I mean? And he was like, so as long, if you want to do what you want, you have to perform.

That's right. Yeah. You got to show a proof. So that was always my thing. Like I wanted to do what I wanted. So I also wanted to make sure that I could show improve and make sure that what my kids were doing was worth me doing things differently. And lucky for me. You know what I mean?

It paid off, sir.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah I'm loving this story and I'm loving, I'm just imagining what this environment was like for you, what it was like for your students, right? I've had some great coaches in my life. Shout out to Dr. Sandy Mason, who was amazing. She's still in Cherry Creek. I think she's an avid coordinator out there, but it does say a lot for people to like, believe in you and know that you can do more, right?

And not just sit back okay, good enough. Yeah. So tell us, keep going. You read [00:24:00] manual. How long were you there? What was that experience like?

Dr. William Anderson: I was there for a while, but see, part of it, there's some other stuff while I was at MLK, I also got plugged with the Gates Foundation and some other outside entities, like some big aid groups, that also opened me up to a completely different world of education.

I went to a conference put on. teaching conference. I was put on by the Gates Foundation and met one of the presenters there, Sarah Brown Wesleyan, who was a national teacher of the year. And she just happened to be sitting at the table that I was sitting at. And they're talking, we're talking, Ed boom.

I said something, I don't even remember necessarily what I said. Just to say it because, I'm a pop shit if I got something to say. And then the conference was over. It was really dope to be able to see like a big organization put that on and like to hear some dope speakers. Clint Smith was there.

Some other heavy hitters. And then Sarah Brown reached out and was like, Yo, do you mind if I quote you in this [00:25:00] thing that I'm doing? Because what you said was like really dope. I was like, really? She was like, yeah. Like you, you said that like exactly how I wanted to, how it needed to be said, I want to quote you and saying it like that made me click something in my brain that never even crossed my mind.

Like this idea that other people would what you,

Kevin Adams: what you have to say.

Dr. William Anderson: Yeah. You know what I mean? So then I was like, all right if people are wondering I started digging more into the Gates foundation stuff and then eventually ended up being on like their teacher advisory council. And spent two years I think it is on their teacher advisory council helping them as a giant organization to start pushing through a lot of their different stuff.

And when I started their national convention, the ESET 2 probably had 40 breakout sessions, let's say. You know what I mean? Of [00:26:00] those 46, maybe not even six, five of them, four of them, had something to do with being closely responsive, data driven instructor DEI or social and emotional stuff. By the time like me and that crew of teachers on that council got done, the last national convention we put on, nothing less than half.

Was on like really actually serving the children, you know what I'm saying? Because we had pushed the needle so much, and it wasn't all the same thing, but it was like all these different versions that were coming from teachers all over the country. Cause us in that group which was just some incredible, some of the best educators I've ever met.

Some folks that have nothing, but. Just love as human beings and love as educators for we got to do that. So then when I did that, I was like, Oh man, I started doing professional development. And from that I got started getting these consulting gigs and getting acts to come all over the country to lead the PDs that I was [00:27:00] leading for the Gage Foundation in this place, in that place, in this place, in that place.

Wow. It was dope. Yes. Got to be this like education mercenary that like you send a check, I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna do the work. That's right.

Kevin Adams: That's right. Education mercenary. Let's go. What's

Dr. William Anderson: up? You know what I mean? Just this ed for hire business, that's right. And I did that.

All the way until I was at manual kept doing some different stuff with the Gates Foundation, just crazy. It was crazy to just be in that type of space, and then left there, and while I was at manual I then got asked to be on the teacher Advisory Council for National Geographic to do the same thing.

Yes. So then work with Nat Geo for that. Two years, and in trying to push the envelope with them. Yep. The pandemic kind of shit on it a little bit but we still got some really good work done there and also working with like these other organizations like the teacher, the Center for teaching [00:28:00] quality out of North Carolina.

The Economic Ed Council that's out of New York and New Jersey. It just opened me to a whole different world outside of just like being a teacher. I knew when I wanted to be a teacher, I thought that was it. And then I found myself in all these different spaces doing the work. And then right before the pandemic.

In 2019 I started my own ad consultation business Love First LLC. Yes, consultation and then started to get away from the ad for hire the mercenary work because I like the one shots were cool. Yep. But I wanted to be able to do some sustainable work with different schools or organizations that we could like really start to build capacity in the spaces.

Yep. And my whole thing with my business is like I want to work myself out of a job, I want to. Yeah.

Kevin Adams: This is not the work you want to continue forever. You don't want to be Al Sharpton doing this. [00:29:00] No. It's contrary to what people think. People do not, I guarantee you brother Reverend Al,

Dr. Asia Lyons: I love.

Hey, I

Kevin Adams: love that brother. I this for a lot

Dr. Asia Lyons: on us

right quick Dr. Anderson. And I want to back you up a little bit. I've had some teachers come to me and I think I've talked about this a little bit before in the podcast. who want to move, shift out of the classroom to do other things, but they find that their resume only says third grade teacher for the last X amount of years.

And so this is a typical question we ask, but it's coming to my mind. If I'm an educator who's been in, I don't know, teaching seventh grade math or teaching something for a long time, and want to go get to these conferences or do some of these things you're talking about, what would you suggest folks to do?[00:30:00]

Especially because they're like who's going to set up my classroom? I, my district won't pay for these things, but they really want to gain that experience and meet other folks and get out into space. What would you suggest?

Dr. William Anderson: To be willing to do more work, which is a big ass, you know what I'm saying?

Like I was busy, man, like busy, you know what I'm saying? And that stuff would have me out of the classroom, not a lot, but enough. One, I had great administrators who were like, what? The Gage Foundation is calling, yes, go do that. Like, why am I going to get in your way of something like that, right?

Oh, it looks good on

Kevin Adams: the school website too. Always look good on the school website. That's the

Dr. William Anderson: idea. Like I had the base, I had them send out a whole camera crew and do a whole thing. While I was at manual from the Gage Foundation. And it was like, yo, highlight these kids who are here so we can put these kids out.

That's right. That's right. I'm saying like, I like doing stuff, but no, get these kids, let them shine, yep. And I also didn't take no for an answer. So I think teachers, [00:31:00] if you want to be more than an average teacher, you want to be good, you want to be great. It takes risks. You know what I'm saying?

You gotta be able to take that risk. My risk was saying like, if I had ever had an administrator say no, you can't do that. I'd be like, all right I'm gonna use my sick day. You what I'm doing with my sick day, so I'm gonna just leave anyway, you know what I'm saying? I'm gonna do what I have to do.

What I think is best for me, my family, for moving the work that I want to do forward. But that's a risk that you have to take, you know what I'm saying? That you gotta be willing to take, I gotta, I had to be willing to come back and. Administrators being like, Yo, say something lucky for me. I didn't have to deal with other teachers being like, Oh, how come Anderson gets to be gone all the time?

He'd be like, first of all, mind your own business. Second of all, that's right. Like I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Like my sub plans are tight. Everything. My class works well. They're doing this, we're doing this, we're doing this, we're doing, you know what I'm saying? Like I'm dialed again, that performance was my currency for autonomy.

If I was a trash teacher, I'm sure they wouldn't [00:32:00] let me do that, but because I was doing what I was supposed to do, they was like, yo, who are we to stand in your way? You know what I mean? So like again, but I was very lucky in the sense that I had supportive administrators and that my fight was never there.

You know what I mean? My partner probably took more of a hit than the administration did because I was gone all the time, my now wife, I was always working, and the work was something that I really wanted to do and I really wanted to dedicate the time to, so that's what it is.

It's about. I'd say you want to do something, find the conferences, go, tell your teachers to let you go, just go, volunteer. When they said like, when they end up on the Teacher Advisory Council, you had to apply. I applied. You know what I'm saying? And then went through their little interviews and all their other stuff to be able to get on.

I did it. When I got to go, I'm also on the leadership board of a national policy organization, EDLOC, which is Education Leaders of Color. And I ended up being able to go because the homie [00:33:00] couldn't and she was like, you want to go instead of me? And I was like, yeah, I got there. And it's 600, 500 freaking all people of color freaking talking that ed talk.

And I'm like, Oh, I'm about to do I'm with this show. You know what I'm saying? Take me with

Dr. Asia Lyons: you next time.

Kevin Adams: We all need to

Dr. William Anderson: go. And so then I dedicated. Four years of my life to them cats until they asked me to be on their leadership board. Now I'm on the lead board. helping to move the organization.

And it's because I believe in it. It's because I don't mind digging and spending the time. You know what I mean? I like it. It's my shit, man. It's about having a passion for it.

Kevin Adams: I, so Asia, I just have to say this for all of us here, Asia, like never have I heard a convincing, a more because I love this brother.

I like we, we relate on a million different levels. Like I did from Greeley from UNC to getting the [00:34:00] letter to ending up in Metro to finding yourself to finding some passion and educate like to going into Denver Public Schools. Like the only difference. The happiest day I've ever had in my life was when Dori Clonch called me and said she was offering me a job at Morey Middle School.

Happiest day of my damn life. Talk about it. Because I told my parents, I was like, Hey, guess what? Guess what? I got a job. They were like, Oh, you did it. You did it. But but again, like Your story I think highlights that point of it's easier than we think. It's easier and I think it also highlights, be yourself in those spaces, take up those opportunities, because sometimes we get I get these emails all the time.

All the time you know they're like inviting you to do this inviting you to do that and a lot of times we're just have so much time. We don't have enough time so we're like, No, I'm not going to that space and like you said you got to do more. You got to put yourself out there to [00:35:00] make those connections, make the relationships.

And then when you're in that space, be in honor of black history matter back black lives matter at week at school week. I can talk, we're going to say, be unapologetically black, right? Go in there and be you and say what you're going to say and do and represent. And I think, people will hear us, and I think we're in a lucky position where there's some people that are willing to listen right now.

Dr. William Anderson: No,

Kevin Adams: that's a fact.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Okay, so you got all this going on. Yep. You at the, and it's still now because you're talking present tense. Yeah. Yeah. February 2022. Okay, keep going. So we're consulting, we're in conferences, we're on leadership boards, we're doing the thing. Now we have us two, almost two year old or two year old.

Dr. William Anderson: Got married.

Dr. Asia Lyons: We got a partner, we're doing these things. Catch us up [00:36:00] now. Go ahead, keep

Dr. William Anderson: going. So then I was at manual. I started my doctorate because I actually started doing this stuff to become an administrator. And probably three quarters of the way through and after passing the test, I was like, I don't want to do this.

I don't want to be an administrator, like at all. And my professor, one of the professors was like, yo, you should think about maybe doing a doctorate. And I was like, no, I'm straight. But then I'm in Edlock and he's just all these like brilliant black folks, brown folks, and all of them are like, doctor this, doctor that, doctor this, doctor that.

So I was like, man, let me go ahead and just do this thing. You know what I'm saying? These guys can't let up. Like quick. You know what I'm saying? Can't be the only non doctor in the room, went back, started doing that, got really lucky, was able to do the program at UCD with Dr.

Jefferson, Dr. Espinoza, Dr. Chaparro Dr. Donovan. [00:37:00] Such big ups to, to that program. Especially Dr. Jefferson, just being an incredible mentor and coach and professor. Dr. Chaparro literally changing my life by... Letting me know that I wasn't crazy because of the way I was thinking about black talk and she hit me to the BEV and all the different stuff and what it was and how I wasn't this crazy person.

And then Dr. Espinoza just being this like crazy philosopher who just got me living back in my brain and thinking differently and Dr. Donovan who forced me to take statistics. Seriously, she held my hand through the process because it was such a struggle for a brother like me. Damn, I love

Kevin Adams: that. I love that one.

Love

Dr. William Anderson: that. Finished, as I was finishing that, it was really coming to the end of the year. At manual and like we had just been through the pandemic and through all the crazy stuff and another great mentor of mine who [00:38:00] Dr. Maria Salazar, who's over at DU now. Yes. The esteemed Dr. Maria Salazar.

We had been working together. We had started a freedom school and did some other stuff. And she was like, Yo, this job opened up at the you to be the director of the teacher education program over there. You should apply for that. And I was like, Are you serious? He was like, Yeah, you. Yes. So I was finishing up my dissertation stuff and it was like I should graduate right in the summer.

She was like the job post ends here like it like really aligned. And I was like, all right, tried out, applied, went through all that stuff. And I really did it not planning at all on getting this job. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm like, dude, I've never had any university experience.

I taught, actually that's not true, I had taught at Colorado College because I was an adjunct there and a [00:39:00] supervisor for Colorado College for the ed students. But I was like, I don't know, and applied and like strangely enough, got to the next phase of the interview, next phase of the interview.

Yes. And then Laura Willen on my birthday again. Ah, once again. Oh, and offer me the job.

Kevin Adams: How you do it? Like I told you I'll try to be like you, brother.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Can we like pause because you said strangely enough, right? And it's not strange. If you're thinking about what you've been doing in the community, how you showed up, how you showed up for your students, how you, just the work, right?

It's not that strange. That's how it should happen. It should happen that way, right? And I know, maybe you're just being humble or whatever, but I'm just gonna give you your flowers and say no. That's right. You busted your ass. You did what you had to do. You said you were an assassin, or whatever you called yourself, mercenary.

Kevin Adams: Educational mercenary. Educational mercenary. That's the [00:40:00] transition. You gotta do dirt.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, and so he, and all these things, and again, you're still doing those things. I think it's really important for people to see black and brown folks, black folks, we put in the work, right? We put in the work, period.

Kevin Adams: And I'll tell the audience, the greatest, one of the greatest, proudest moments I've ever been was the day I logged into that professional development, Dr. Anderson. I'm gonna get and I saw the keynote. I was like, wait a minute. Wait, Dr. And this is Dr. William Anderson, my dog. I was like, Oh, because I don't keep up on social media and stuff.

But when I saw you, I was like, yes, I was, and when you said the head of the teaching, I was like, now we move it now. Okay. This is what, this is how change is supposed to feel, is you see and it's like, all right, things are different. And I will always say, that I remember the day I saw you at a DPA.

I remember I came over to you. I was like, what's up? [00:41:00] I was like, Oh my God.

Dr. William Anderson: Yo, we have been talking shit enough. That they was like you think it's so good. You do it. Cause we were going hard on the DPS, social studies. We

Kevin Adams: were, we were, I know. But because, cause hold on. I, and there was that one day, the day it was like, we're all like, everybody, every session like was derailed.

It was like, nah, you're not going to what you're not going to do. What you

Dr. William Anderson: not gonna do so bad. So then it was nice to be able to, it was a dream man,

Kevin Adams: but that's the progress. That's what we're looking for. And like you said, someone's got to step up and do the work. And I think at times and I think this is Asia's philosophy is that there are other spaces where we can be.

Way more impactful, where we can really, and I think the longer we spend time thinking about this stuff, we see what the root cause of the [00:42:00] issue is, right? The root cause of the issue is people don't see us as experts on what we talk about when it comes to our children's education.

And until we, until like we're sitting in front of you in professional development and that might not even, people only take it so far. But I think that's a big step in the right direction to, maybe helping people understand for

Dr. William Anderson: sure. I can't underscore the amount of hard work.

It was a lot of hard work.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah.

Kevin Adams: So I'm sure podcast Asia. It isn't

Dr. Asia Lyons: it?

Kevin Adams: Can I say something,

Dr. Asia Lyons: girl, I don't know I'm just, I don't know I'm just thinking, and maybe you'll answer this question I love forgive me if I'm jumping ahead, and I just think about. You were saying you went through the process, you applied, and you're just oh, just see, whatever.

When it seemed to be getting that you were going further and further along in the interview process for the position that you had now, [00:43:00] was there this tug of war between not leaving the classroom and then going, moving forward and what you could do in this new space? And if it was like that, what was that conversation like in your own head or with?

Dr. William Anderson: It was like I didn't, I love the kids. Like I'd still be doing the job. I would have never left. You know what I'm saying? Like I loved it. I loved it because I had the autonomy that I felt like I needed, which I know isn't afforded to a lot of folks. I loved it because it was in the hood. I was working on the east side and back to the community that I've spent so much time in.

Not as a resident, but as a frequent visitor, it just had a special place in my heart, you know what I'm saying? So I, I had no plan on leaving. It was literally the opportunity to like, Run a entire teacher education program for university and for the university that has like [00:44:00] some of, if not the most, the second most like pre service teachers in the district, you know what I'm saying?

Like all the majority, a lot of the student teachers who are in DPS now are from DU, so The opportunity to be able to impact the district, my city, my community on like that type of reach was tough, but it was hard because I didn't want to tell the kids because I love kids.

And like it was terrifying. That was by far the hardest thing to do. And kids being the beautiful human beings that they are. When it came time for me to tell them I was so scared. I thought they'd be like, Oh, Anderson, you fake. Yeah. Yep. And they were like, what? You're leaving. That's that bullshit.

Who do you like piss? Why? What are you doing? Then I tell them I got this job, and do you need to win it? And they were like oh, hell yeah, you gotta do that. [00:45:00] What's

Kevin Adams: up? They were like, yeah, make moves.

Dr. William Anderson: You know what I mean? Hell yeah, congratulations. Yes, that's okay

Kevin Adams: as well. And they were like, Mr.

Anderson, you get, mister, you get paid? You get paid? Because that's what they care about. Don't

Dr. William Anderson: do that, brother. You know what I mean? So then, it was like, it made me want to really do it well, because it was, because now these kids who, you know what I'm saying, I had so much love for they were like, yo, you need to do this.

You need to represent us, go and let them know, it is. And I was like, bet. Okay. This feels the right move to be making at this time.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. I appreciate that. I really do. We're going to take a break right here and we get back. We have a few more questions, but this you so much for coming on our podcast.

Dr. William Anderson: No doubt. This is great.

Kevin Adams: Hello, listener.

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Dr. Asia Lyons: All right, so we're back and Dr. Anderson is like spitting some knowledge on us, telling us all the things, giving us some support. Those of us who are still in the classroom are thinking about Not necessarily leaving, but just like expanding our resume expanding our reach thinking about learning from new folks.

And so now we're asking the question what do you think? And being very clear, your classroom transition wasn't one of Running from the classroom, right? Or racial battle fatigue, which is often when we talk about on our podcast, but still want to ask the question, what do you think administrators fellow educators can do to keep BIPOC teachers black?

I'll just say black male specifically. [00:48:00] In the classroom.

Dr. William Anderson: It's really about making room for them. And I mean that by make room for him to grow, give them the potential to do more than what it is that they're doing. Make room for coaching and support. You know what I'm saying? Help them get better at their craft.

Like I think in particular black males in the district get this treatment like, oh, you a black male, you get it. Do it. You know what I'm saying? That's right. If you don't need the help because something is like inborn with you. Hold on one second. Upstairs with your

Kevin Adams: go see. Love it. Special guest.

Special

Dr. William Anderson: guest, Malcolm CTO

Kevin Adams: Chico.

Dr. William Anderson: Any room to grow room to develop room to take risk to try new things. Yes, so that they can do the stuff that they actually want to do and not feel like if they [00:49:00] take a risk and it doesn't work out well that that means that's their job like they won't ever be able to do it again you know what I mean.

And make room for them to be themselves, like I was lucky I got to be like I could bring my whole self to work, and I never thought I had to be in a suit and tie and do the whole like respectable black man dance. I could still have my dreads I could still. Yes, sleeves are out, you know I'm saying and talk that talking be myself.

Be yourself. You know what I'm saying, and not feel like I was going to get judged or that was going to be in the way of me moving, but again I think that comes with the performance piece like I was able to do the work, you know what I'm saying, and I'm trying to think. I was lucky to, I was never, I would tell administrators I was never pitted against other colleagues. You know what I'm saying? I was never I [00:50:00] was never one to fall into the toxic culture that can happen amongst teachers and administrators and all of that stuff.

Like I got really lucky in that sense. And I was also really intentional about that. You know what I mean? If I had a teacher who was on my caseload who was struggling or people didn't like or whatever, tell me what's wrong. You can keep your opinion and I'm gonna work on these particular things to try to help this person grow.

You know what I'm saying? It was never a personal thing, I think that's helped sustain me. I think teachers and that's, isn't it? Teachers of color, but like black teachers or any teachers really. I really tried hard to keep it above and not step on anybody's toes, not be disrespectful to anybody, not get into that toxic gossip.

Yep. You will, yep. I would hope. that if I, if you went back and talk to the people that I worked with and worked for, that they would be like, yo, he was a standup dude. You know what I'm saying? Like he always treated everybody with love and respect, so [00:51:00] I, it gave you couldn't help but treat me with love and respect, you know what I'm saying?

Cause you would look crazy. Talking crazy about me because it'd be like, yo, what did he ever do to you? You know what I'm saying? It would be that you need to treat this person like this, you know what I'm saying? Creating that type of atmosphere that happened because of like some of the leaders I had in the building, in particular at MLK, like those building leaders were great for me.

I'm sure some people might feel differently, but for me. You know what I'm saying? They gave me that space that, that I talked about that I needed to be able to thrive and not just, make it till Friday. You know what I'm saying?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, we're just like, Oh, we can talk about that later that make it till Friday, make it to vacation, make it to

Kevin Adams: every episode I feel like make the make, make it to mentality.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. So last question. Our newest question. What's bringing you joy these days? [00:52:00] So

Kevin Adams: much,

Dr. William Anderson: man. My son, for sure, that dude's off the charts. Ha! My wife, for sure, she's just a wonderful support. Fam, the work is great. I just went I was at the Nuggets game on, what's this, today's Sunday. It must have been Friday night. The homie who used I used to work with at Manu called me and said the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

He was like, yo, you want to go to the Nugget game? I was like, oh, yeah. He's I got court side tickets. Bless us. Nobody want to go, let's go. I was like, my G let me call my wife and make sure it's cool. . So

Kevin Adams: Yes. Oh. Always. Always anything that I get asked to do. You gotta check with the boss.

You gotta check the boss. The boss is if the boss agrees, then I can do

Dr. William Anderson: something. Yo called her. She was like fine. You know what I'm saying? I went to that game. But I say all that to say went to the game. The [00:53:00] seats are freaking amazing. Good. Yes. You know what I'm saying? All sorts of, all of that.

But I came home. And I was just like, man, I really just love my life so much, man. Like I got this house over my head. It got clothes, healthy kid, healthy life. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Like all the things, like the work that we did was, it was not for a reason.

So all. What brings me joy? All that. All of it. And I guess the work too. The thing that I would say, hold on one second.

The one thing I'll say about this university work. The speed of it is so much different than working in a K through 12, like a public school. You know what I mean? Yeah my day was at manual at MLK. Yeah. You're at work from potentially as early as [00:54:00] six to eight is nine o'clock. Sometimes you can talk about it.

Your average day, we can just say from seven to five. You know what I'm saying? And that whole time from seven to five is you're rocking, you're doing something. You're either teaching, you're either collaborating and planning, grading, eating, dealing with children. You know what I'm saying? And you love it, it's fun, it's great.

It's a completely different energy. You know what I mean? I think about this job I have now, I teach on Mondays. Like from 9 to 3, 30, once a week. And then the rest of the week, it's not like I'm chilling with no, Oh,

Kevin Adams: Wait, no. Yeah. Wait, hold on. I thought you was playing Madden NBA

Dr. William Anderson: 2K.

My days are full with other things to do, but so much more, I have so much more control over my time.

Kevin Adams: It's a thought job, that's what I think about teaching that you never get so [00:55:00] much of the job is wrapped up in thinking, like processing, planning, finding, absorbing, finding resources, like what, and thinking about I could spend so The biggest part of planning is like, and I love what you say about curriculum, like design, but that part is a big.

A big thing, right? When you engage in it, because you start to look for stuff in the age of the internet, not everything is gold. There's a lot of trash. You gotta you are literally, it's It's like being a DJ, you dig it through the crate to find the perfect sample.

Dr. William Anderson: Records. You got to go

Kevin Adams: so many records. And a lot of them records are garbage. And sometimes even the garbage records got something to offer. But you're like. I got to find that little piece.

Dr. William Anderson: Yeah. But Pete did. So I'll tell you again, that's the difference. It's like, when I'm thinking about my lesson planning and like course building and stuff now, like I have a grad assistant, we have a [00:56:00] teacher assistant, like these are people.

Who could help you do the work you're supposed to be doing, like the partners who their sole job is to help you to be able to do the main thing it is that you're supposed to do, so I think about sitting down with my grad assistant. For lunch, her having her in shout out to my grad assistant, Anna Handy, who's the frickin bees knees lies in its arms.

I would not be able to do this work as well as I could without her. I can just talk about, hey, for this next quarter. This is what I'm thinking for the quarter. Yep. This I'm thinking this, I'm thinking this, maybe some of this, maybe some of that, maybe some of this, and she takes it all down. And I'm like, Hey, can you find a resource for this?

Can you find a resource for that? Yeah. And then two days later, she's yo, here's a list of resources. Here's a this, here's a that. And I'm like, okay, put this together. And and it's like the process is so different. Yep. You know what I mean? All of that, the support is so different. You know what I mean?

Yep. The Dean who's yo, make sure you're [00:57:00] carving out four hours a week, just for writing, like off on your schedule. Don't let nobody bother you. Spend four hours a week, pick one day and you have a four hour block that's sacred. And that you're like, you don't do nothing but write or think about the things that you want to write about or read or do this.

And it's so different in a K to 12 job. You imagine going to your AP and being like, yo, I need four hours to think. To just

Kevin Adams: think, and we talk about uninterrupted planning time, but I have kids that are just coming to my room that, like kids would just be like, what's up, Mr.

Dr. William Anderson: Hey, you know what I'm saying?

And I can

Kevin Adams: never, I'll never send them away. If they come to me in the middle now, I'll let them just hang out to all my colleagues who listen. I ain't letting them just hang out. I'm letting them collect their thoughts, get ready. Cause they got to wander. Sometimes. You gotta wonder. You gotta be like, what's Mr.

Adams doing right now?

Dr. William Anderson: You know how many [00:58:00] warm lunches I had go cold because I had to feed them because I'm talking to kids. You know what I'm saying? And now just the speed is so different. And it just brings me a different joy as I start to think about what I can do in this space. Yes, like impacting and have on this broader scale.

Kevin Adams: And like you said, the people you are educating are going to be teaching your kids. Yes. And so it's the bigger picture. It's yeah, that way. And that was the hard part. And the kids are willing to support you moving on to, because the kids always support us. They'd love us if we move in and make a moves for ourselves.

Because they know how they actually they are the experts you interview kids about how hard it is to be a teacher that tell you they will tell you. But I think like it's so important because, and I think this goes back to Asia's big point. Sometimes we worry that we're leaving people behind and not but sometimes the work that we're doing is [00:59:00] even bigger, right?

And so that's why I call Asia, she's my Harriet Tubman 2. 0 because, yeah. You're not going to be able to take care of the people who we leave on the plantation, but what we're going to do is we're going to encourage other people to come back and liberate more people.

And we got in, like you said, Dr. Anderson, we got to end our jobs. That's the goal. That's the goal of the work. We ain't doing this forever.

Dr. William Anderson: Very much we can't. We can't. We can't. The one thing I'll say finally, it will be like, the one thing I do miss those is the connection to kids.

Yes, being able to have that direct impact on young people and getting so much time with them like four years with a kid is a long time. Being able to see them freshman to their like senior year and then being able to see them launch off like that. There's something special in that it's also really makes the job really hard to.

Because you love those people, and when things [01:00:00] happen to them, it's sad to I present any of this info in the loving memory of a student of mine who just passed career to Riviera, who was just my heart and soul. And I'm almost glad I have the job that I have now. So I don't have to feel this heartbreak.

Yep. Yep. You know what I mean? I hope we don't have to deal with That type of pain that comes with spending so much time with a person and they grow up and you grow with them and then something can happen to them in an instant and then in an instant. You know what I'm saying. So like I get this time with my TEP students, I'll be with them for a year, and I'll love and I'll appreciate them and I hope we make great memories and I know them for a long time but it's not the

Kevin Adams: same.

It's not watching someone grow. From a child to [01:01:00] an adult to watch and if you just get to know him, and I'm fortunate enough to work in a six to 12 and, from being at DMLK that what that experience is to watch. Someone go from being 11 years old to being 18 years old.

And it, and what it changes your perspective, because like we said, who, and I believe this in my heart, I tell them who I am today is not who I'm going to be tomorrow. And we all grow through it, from the. 2. 7 club to the letter club to the, I got to go to Metro, but I found myself because that's where I probably should have been in the first place club.

I think that's how we have to see every single one of our, and even the students, some of our students to I've had this experience to. Students who shine, who are golden who have everything, and it just never happens. That's right. That's right. I've had that too. We [01:02:00] don't talk about them enough too.

We

Dr. William Anderson: don't. We don't. But those things bring me joy. I'm slap happy now. I couldn't be happier. It's an honor and a privilege to be on y'all show. You know what I mean? To be able to share my, my, my thoughts for whatever they were, you know what I'm saying? I love and appreciate y'all too, man.

I've known all y'all for a while. I've really known Munoz and K. A. for a minute. Asia, I've known you for a minute now too. I know, it's

Kevin Adams: almost

Dr. Asia Lyons: four years. Yeah,

Dr. William Anderson: it's been a minute, I love y'all the life, man. And I appreciate the work that you're doing. And I'm here of service.

If you ever need anything please know that I'm gonna email a text message away. Munoz knows better than most. I'm I can be a bad text. Yes

Kevin Adams: you are. Because I take two. I'm bad too. I'm response. See, there's something about us like me and you're very Si We are very similar. Like I'm telling you.

Like I can be a bad Munoz gives me a hard time. I get better. [01:03:00] Asian and Gerardo. Am I better today than I was in the past? You are better today. Oh, Gerardo

Dr. Asia Lyons: says no. William needs to check his phone because he has a text I sent him like four months ago. He was like, how's it going? I'm like, great. How are you?

Nothing. I was

Dr. William Anderson: like, That's terrible. Like, all right. Yo, I promise I was working or something. And it's, I want you to my own mother. So it's not personal. You know what I'm saying? My mom has called me and been like, Yo, I thought she was talking to me. Yo, my fault. I was doing this. That and the third momma my fault, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry Personal, I swear you just gotta text me again and be like, hey You know what? Call me out my name a little bit and i'll be like, oh, that's right. I'll respond to you right, you know what i'm saying? So[01:04:00]

But thank y'all, man. Let me get up here to this child, to this wife.

Kevin Adams: Yes. Go get the young'un to

Dr. William Anderson: bed. I appreciate y'all, man. And please keep

Dr. Asia Lyons: doing the

work. Yes. I appreciate you. Alright, have a good night. Peace out.