On to Bigger and Better with Crystal Gillis

On to Bigger and Better with Crystal Gillis

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noise: I,

I,

Dr. Asia Lyons: everybody, we're back with another episode of the interview. Kevin, was it good or was it good?

Kevin Adams: This is, uh, fire. This is, this is good. This is the truth. This is what you needed to hear from the booth. All of it, and then some,

noise: uh, yeah. Yeah. But

Kevin Adams: this is good. Like, this is inspiration. I, I mean, every episode of the exit interview [00:02:00] helps me like I.

You know, it it, it helps me start to outline my resignation list. So this one is like, you know, it, it puts some, it crossed some t's and dotted some i's.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Shout out to your principal. We have to hear you say that every time we have a podcast. You

Kevin Adams: think that makes her nervous? You think she's nervous? She's like, does it

Dr. Asia Lyons: matter?

What can I do? Does it

Kevin Adams: matter? That's right. Because I'm nervous every day. Shoot, I'm a black man in America.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Amen. We'll go anywhere

Kevin Adams: and not be nervous

Dr. Asia Lyons: for real. Today we have on our episode Crystal Gillis, a good friend of mine, um, met Crystal a while ago and just been like, rocking with her and she's gonna talk about her, um, work in Cherry Creek School District, working at the elementary level, working in secondary, doing all the things, and having all the experiences that some of us black educators are having every single day.

So I'm just really excited for you all. We both are for y'all to hear her [00:03:00] story and just like. Just really sit with what she's saying.

Kevin Adams: Yes, yes, yes. It's critical and, uh, inspirational and, and powerful. And I think, um, it's, it is worthwhile for everybody to listen to. So, you know, sit back, pop up your popcorn, get ready to get enlightened.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Let's go.

Kevin Adams: Hello, exit interview audience and welcome back. We are here with our guest for this episode, uh, crystal Gillis. Uh, so, uh, welcome Crystal. We are so happy to have you here today, for sure. Yep.

Crystal Gillis: Yep. Thank, thanks for having me.

Kevin Adams: So if you would, let's, let's go ahead and get into this and, and, uh, tell us about your educational journey.

What, what brought you into teaching? Uh, how did you, how'd you get into the game? You know, what was your inspiration, motivation, [00:04:00] and, uh, you know, what was that, uh, beginning like for you?

Crystal Gillis: Yeah. Well, originally I didn't want to do, like, I didn't wanna go into education, so like, my first job was not my first job, but my first, um, degree was in recording engineering.

So I just remember my dad see, didn't know that.

Kevin Adams: There we go. I love that. No clue. I'm a musician, so like, and that's, I started out as a music major too. So recorded engineering. That's dope. Yeah. And I,

Dr. Asia Lyons: I wanna pause for one second to say, folks, I've known Crystal for a while now. Uh, and I like to say that I helped her like leave the classroom.

I just wanna put that out there. She har Harriet Tubman.

noise: Harriet Tubman in full effect. I

Crystal Gillis: accountable.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yes. So I had no idea. But go ahead Crystal. Sorry about that.

Crystal Gillis: Yeah, but I've always been into music and my dad was actually a DJ and he was a radio announcer on KDKO Power 1510 with like Dr. Daddio, like back [00:05:00] in the day.

There

Kevin Adams: we go, shout out Denver, represent Dr. Daddio.

Crystal Gillis: Let's go. So I would like go and my mom would actually have us like, sit in front of the radio and listen to him. Yes. And I'm like probably sitting in front of this radio right now, like I can't see him, but I remember like going and watching my dad actually do a lot of that stuff.

And um, he would always tell me like, when you graduate high school, you either need to make, like, make money. Like, make money to support yourself. So like, you don't have to rely on anybody. So I was like, oh, I'll be a recording engineer. I'll be the next Missy Elliot. Right? Yes. Make six figures. Um, but then going into college, it, it wasn't about like music, it was more about the music business.

Um, and then I realized I didn't utilize high school as well as I should have. So I would take my exams and I would fail. Mm-hmm. And I would be like, oh shit, like [00:06:00] I'm paying for this now. Like, I can't afford to pay for another semester. Um, and then I would get help from the professor and I would retake an exam, then fail.

And like that just continued through all my classes to where I'm like, I'm not even happy right now. And so I had to dive into what I really wanted to do regardless of pay. Um, my mom actually. Was a para in the Cherry Creek School District. Um, and she worked with students that have special needs and I would always go up there and volunteer.

Um, and there was one young girl, her name was son, and she had Lang's Disease and she was, um, somebody that I really connected with. So that was like my first entry into working specifically with youth, which was youth, um, that had special needs. I was always involved in sports, so my mom put me in anything that could get me in like a dress or tights.

So it was like ice skating, [00:07:00] gymnastics, ballet. Wow. Wow. Um, can you see that Isha? No, I cannot. I cannot. Um, and eventually I got to high school to where it was more of like the track and basketball was something that really stuck. Just being a part of, um, athletics and health and weight training. So I was like, maybe I can put these two things together.

And then I went back to school, to Metro State and I got my bachelor's degree in human performance and sport. Um, and that led me to become a physical education health teacher. So I was mainly teaching health classes and weight training classes. And then I was like, okay, I'm grown. I'm good. I got this nice income until I got my first check and they took all the taxes down.

I'm like, shit, I gotta go back

to

Crystal Gillis: school, get my master's degree. And now I have my master's degree in special education. So that's been my journey in regards to how I became, um, an educator.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Ooh. So how long did you [00:08:00] teach for? Where did you teach? Like what grades or whatever?

Crystal Gillis: Yeah. So I started at, um, Cimarron Elementary School, and that was just me just trying to get my foot in the door, like okay.

Any place that has a job, I'll take it. Mm-hmm. Um, and it was interesting because when I got that first job, it was on the account that I was a black educator.

Yes. And

Crystal Gillis: now when I look back at that, I'm like, oh, I wish I would've known what I know now. Um, 'cause I thought it was just like, I'll take this and use this as my advantage, which I'm glad I did.

Um, but I wish I would've held them accountable. Um, so yeah, I started at Cimarron Elementary School, but I also, hold on one

Dr. Asia Lyons: second. Can you talk more about that? Like, what do you mean by I wish I would've held them accountable?

Crystal Gillis: I, i just going in right after college to where you're just, I was naive, so it's just like, oh, they want me there, [00:09:00] you know?

'cause I'm a black educator and at Cimarron Elementary School you have the majority of minoritized youth. So they're looking for me because like, I'm able to. Help youth that look like me. And that's part of my community as well, right? Because I grew up in that community. So it was more of me and, and my lens being able to give back to my community.

And I assumed that that's what they had seen. But it wasn't that. It was more of like this burden and lack of support. So when I realized, like when one of the principals came and she said, well what, what do you wanna do for Black History Month? Maybe we can come up with some new ideas. And I just kind of, that's when I realized like, oh shit.

Like how are you gonna ask me for new ideas? And I've been a product in spite of this district. Like I graduated from the Cherry Creek school district. You guys didn't educate me in [00:10:00] anything different, but now you want me to come up with something new. And that's when I realized that's powerful. Yeah, I realized I'm not even here to educate in the field that I thought I was educating in.

Mm-hmm. But it was like, I have to be a part of like these equity, like what's going on with equity specifically in the district. So I didn't even really get a breather my first year. It was always about equity. Any kind of meeting that I was in, it was about equity and how to support minoritized youth.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Okay. Thank, I appreciate you like, taking your time to say that. Um, and I don't know if his, if Kevin, this was your experience or you felt like it was, but you know, same thing happened to me right on the street from Cimarron at Sunrise where I was so excited, you know, interviewed for the job, got the job the same day, feeling like really excited, kind of on the back end thinking maybe it's because I'm black, but that's cool because I'm just like you said, right.

And [00:11:00] then now I'm thinking, oh lord, right. So I'm glad that you talked about that. So after elementary school at SRA specifically, where else did you go?

Crystal Gillis: I tr I transferred to Cherokee Trail High School 'cause I enjoyed coaching. So when I was, I coached girls basketball, um, but like the elementary school times and the high school times didn't mix or didn't match.

So I would either have to leave the elementary school early and I would ask like, Hey, can I leave early? You know, and they would be like, no, you can't do that. And I'd be like, but my paycheck don't say Cimarron. It says Cherry Creek School District. And I still gonna, another, another Cherry Creek School.

So, but I ended up, um, leaving the elementary level. I taught at Cherokee Trail for two years and that's when I was like, it's the same shit over here then it is at Cimarron.

noise: [00:12:00] Yep.

Crystal Gillis: Um. So again, it was a lot of racial battle fatigue. I had the privilege and opportunity of having a department head that was a male of color.

Um, I had a coworker that was, um, a woman of color, so that was nice. But then I started, I had the opportunity to experience their story as well to where I'm like, okay, well I'm not the only one.

Yep.

Crystal Gillis: But then even with that, I just realized a lot of complacency within myself and my colleagues to where I'm like, wait, we're just supposed to tolerate this.

Like this is how we're supposed to navigate it.

noise: Yep.

Crystal Gillis: Um, so yeah, with at, at Cherokee Trail, it was a lot of, again, me, uh, specifically as a, as a female coach, um, to where there were girls on the bench that looked like me to where I was like, I have to present myself a certain way. Um, and then there was just, again, situations with.[00:13:00]

White men. 'cause I was a, um, assistant coach, an assistant varsity coach at the time, um, and the head coach at the time, he was disrespectful on the bench a couple of times. If I would give him like feedback. And that's what an assistant coach is supposed to do. I remember being at a game, it was at Arapahoe and I remember we were playing, it was actually my former coach that used to coach me in high school.

Um, and I remember we were down by three and I look at him and I say, Hey, why don't we put Mariah in? 'cause she was, she was like, hot that game. And I was like, let's put her in. Just have her have her hit that three. And I just remember him yelling at me like, I got this, I got this. Which I get it specifically as a head coach, um, around that time where it's like fourth quarter and he might be stressed.

So I spoke to him after like, Hey, you can't talk to me like that on the bench in front of these girls like that. That's not gonna fly. So that's your warning.[00:14:00]

Kevin Adams: Like that's your warning.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Kathy, can you hear the pattern? If a, can you hear the pattern?

Kevin Adams: If a black woman tells you, Hey, for the audience out there, if a black woman tells you that's your warning, that's your warning.

Crystal Gillis: And I, he tell you, I guess he didn't believe it.

noise: He

Crystal Gillis: didn't. It was like he tried me the next game and I was like, okay, this is enough.

But again, it's just like any, as an educator, as a coach, you look for support. So I went like the chain of commands, like they tell you to like, all right, I brought it up to him, didn't work, let me go to the, um, athletic director. And I was told to wait till the end of the season 'cause we didn't want any distractions.

And I was like, hold up, you want me to, you want me to conduct myself like this and make it acceptable for a white man? To yell at a black woman on the bench while there's young black [00:15:00] girls watching. And again, I'm explaining myself to a white man, to a white man that I'm reaching out for support. Um, but long story, 'cause the athletic director was actually my evaluator.

So long story short, I told 'em, I'm not sitting on that bench. I'll support the ladies. I ended up sitting behind the bench. They labeled it as me not finishing out my job duty. And then my evaluation ended up getting skewed. So we get evaluated throughout the year. So originally I had like all these great standings, however they wanna do their evaluations.

noise: Yep, yep.

Crystal Gillis: Um, and I guess they didn't know I kept record of everything. So any evaluation that I had, I would make copies of. And so after the whole incident, I get my mid-year evaluation. Then I realized like things are marked down that weren't marked down at the beginning of the year. [00:16:00] And I was like, well, I can't have like, did it then, but not now.

Yeah, right. Yeah. So then that was a whole other thing to where I was like, well, I'm not signing it signing until it gets changed. Um, so it did get changed. Um, I did end up signing it and then it was just this opportunity that came about to where I was like, I, I don't even wanna be here anymore. Like, I'm not supported.

I don't wanna be here anymore. I can't coach how I want to. I can't teach how I want to. And then it ended up, I remember calling, um, Dwayne Brandon, um, and he was a head coach at Smokey Hill at the time. I said, Hey, I'm not coaching here at Cherokee Trail, but I just wanna be involved in the game. I'll go ahead and do it for free.

Like, I don't just let me volunteer, let me hand out jerseys. I just wanna be around the game. And it ended up to where he was actually [00:17:00] transferring jobs and he said, well hey, I will love you to be the head coach at Smokey Hill. 'cause I've coached there before. Um, and I was like, oh, here's my opportunity.

Mm-hmm. And it ended up happening to where there was actually a, a teacher at Smokey Hill, a PE teacher at Smokey Hill that, um, coached baseball, I believe it was at Cherokee Trail. And he's like, so we can just swap you guys. And of course it was two teachers of color. So we were like, okay, like nobody's missing up.

'cause you guys still have teachers of color since you wanna retain teachers of color in the district. Well, they say so. They say it's a swap.

Kevin Adams: It's a

Crystal Gillis: swap. Right, right. But then the principal got involved. She didn't want me to leave. She was like, no, you can't do that. 'cause if you do it, then everybody else is gonna wanna do it.

Um, and then Preston Davis at the time was the athletic director at Smokey Hill High School, and I don't know what he did, but he found some [00:18:00] written law or rule in the book that said, we can go ahead and do it. And the, the swap happened. Um, and then I basically finished off my, my teaching career at Smokey Hill High School.

Um, can, can,

Dr. Asia Lyons: can we pause for one second? Yeah. I just wanna, I just wanna, before you keep going, I just, I keep thinking about this idea of like power and power dynamics, right? You can't do that. You can't do this. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna mess with your evaluation. Right. Um, for my au for the audience, um, I teach at CU Denver.

Um, shout out to school education, shout out. You know, they're all shout out. And I've had situations where students have come to me and said. They're having some experiences when they're in their volunteer hours.

noise: Yes. Uh,

Dr. Asia Lyons: with another teacher, the, the head teacher of their space, and they're afraid to speak up.

Mm-hmm. Because they're just a student and the teacher evaluates them and they don't wanna get in trouble. And I, you know, I have to tell them like, listen, you [00:19:00] start that now and you'll be always doing that.

Kevin Adams: That's right. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Asia Lyons: You'll always do that. So you have to figure out ways that they do, um, figure out ways to navigate those conversations to get people in your space, in your corner to support you.

Because if you're always hiding behind, I don't wanna get in trouble, you'll always just turn your head to injustice. Right. Now, whether people take my advice or not, that's up to them. But I always let them know that's just not okay, because folks will do that. They'll mess with your evaluation and then they'll just sign it.

'cause they don't wanna get in trouble. They don't wanna cause conflict. Instead of saying No. I refuse to sign this. You're gonna fix this. I keep record because we know white supremacy loves a written word. Right. They believe it. Right. So they keep record and all those things. So yeah. I'm just, I'm glad that you're talking about like all these different pieces and all these different folks who were just thinking like, they can control you because they write a check.

Mm-hmm. That goes into your account and that's a no.

Crystal Gillis: Right. And that's like the, how they retain [00:20:00] teachers of color, period. 'cause even after I did leave or when I was leaving, oh no, I was, I was, I didn't know that I was leaving ct, but they didn't know that I was gonna coach at Smokey Hill. Yes. Um, so I didn't even know that that was, I didn't know I was leaving at the time yet.

Um, but somehow word got out and I remember the athletic director was like, well, you can't teach here and coach at Smokey. And I just remember looking at him and saying, that's off my like contracted hours. I could do whatever I want. Off my contracted hours. That's none of your concern. And I just remember his face just turning red and he was just upset 'cause I was done.

Like I was just done done. And I thought that was the end of it. 'cause I was like, okay, cool. I didn't stuck up for myself. I did what I need to do. Went to Smokey Hill, I'm like, oh shit, here we go. Here we go again. [00:21:00] So yeah. And then I was at Smokey Hill for about seven years. At Smokey?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. Wow. Um, and then you were teaching classes at Smokey and Coaching?

Crystal Gillis: Yeah, so the whole coaching thing, then that's when I realized like, okay here it is again. Um, to where they wanted to have me. 'cause actually Preston Davis used to be one of my athletic coaches at Eagle Crest High School. 'cause I graduated from Eagle Crest High School. Um, so he knew what I was about. He knew my potential.

He knew I was always in like a gym rat. Um, and then all of a sudden the principal, which was Randy Carr at the time, realized I was pregnant. And I guess that was an issue. 'cause I guess like a pregnant black woman,

Kevin Adams: that's a problem approach,

Crystal Gillis: right?

Kevin Adams: But I remember sitting

Crystal Gillis: at Preston's desk and I remember him asking, do you have support at home?

And so that was just like, [00:22:00] at first, um, I'm thinking like, okay, well what's their perception of me? Like, do they think like, I'm this woman that can't hold my own. Do they think I'm this single black woman? Like what's their, what's their perception on this? And I said, I have plenty support at home. Next meeting.

It was, you know what? Like, I wish we could have told you this, but you know, Randy wants to go another way and he wants to bring in. This other coach, I believe her name was like Andrea Gross, I believe. I'm gonna go ahead and bring her in, but if you still wanna be a part of the staff, like we would love to bring you on as a JV coach.

Dr. Asia Lyons: And I said that 'cause you were pregnant.

Crystal Gillis: Because I was pregnant. Right. Um, but I'm, can we just

Kevin Adams: pause? Can we pause for a second? Let the people, let that sink in. Like it is a black woman told 'cause she was pregnant, she couldn't have the job that she was hired for.

Crystal Gillis: Are we hearing this? And [00:23:00] they didn't say that exactly right.

Of course not. They're gonna say like, oh, well we still legally had to open up the interview process. Right. And we did interview somebody, but like Randy got his girl over here, so he's gonna bring her on instead, which was a white woman that's coaching minor. The team was basically all black. Of course black, black young women.

To where I'm like, okay. And I'm not saying that I was. Um, qualified just because I'm a black No, no, no. Right. But if you can't even like trust your athletic director on his move, right. That's taught this black woman at the high school level that you knew played basketball and like he's trained, like where else is my mind supposed to go?

noise: Mm-hmm.

Crystal Gillis: And I remember over that summer, even while pregnant, and that was with my first child, jewel doing all the footwork. 'cause I knew Smokey Hill [00:24:00] was a school to where like the basketball program is not what it is. Like it's not, it's not. I remember playing Smokey Hill in high school and like, we would be like, okay creek, we gotta prepare for grand.

We gotta smokey. Oh shit, we gotta bi week. Like we can take, we gotta buy, uh uh, we can take a break. And again, it's just like the culture specifically. Um, at Smokey Hills. So I knew things had to change and I knew I needed support to do that. So I knew there were gonna be times to where I could potentially be playing with four girls on a team, four against five, or Wow.

Um, you know, girls would, when I used to be an assistant coach, like there would be some girls that would show up to practice high or they would have D's and F's, and I'm like, no, we you will, you would not be playing. Can't play. Right. But I, I know, I knew I needed the administrative support. We were in, like, I had like negative $5,000 in the [00:25:00] account and we sitting up here traveling to like Colorado Springs where we're about to get our ass beat.

So I had to like sit here and change the schedule. Right. So I'm focused on budget changing the schedule. A playbook that they could actually understand.

Yep.

Crystal Gillis: Not that they couldn't understand, but there was no basketball players there. Right. So it's more just, you were

Kevin Adams: bu you were building the program from the ground up,

Crystal Gillis: right.

And developing athletes. Right. So it was basically going from fundamentals to plays, but then like the logistics behind that. So I did all the footwork over the summer thinking I already had the job to where by the time that August came, they were like, oh, just kidding. And that's when I told 'em, I remember stating, you know, I don't, I never had to be a head coach.

Like if y'all would've just came to me directly and said, Hey, we would like you to have the opportunity of being a head coach here at Smokey, but we do have some other candidates. [00:26:00] Um, would you be willing to be a part of this interview process? Then I would've happily like taken a JV or a freshman or a sophomore or like, I, I didn't even go there to get paid anyway.

I just wanted to volunteer my time and be a part of it. But I was so upset 'cause they took my time in the summer to where instead of me. Enjoying my pregnancy of my first child, right? Mm-hmm. It was the footwork that I had done specifically for this white female coach coming in that was supposedly more, and I don't even like more, I don't even know what word to put with it.

I don't know if she was more anything more acceptable for the program. I don't know if that's even the right word. More white. More white. More white. Right? There we go. Thank you. Thank you. There

Kevin Adams: we go.

Crystal Gillis: You're welcome. You're welcome. Leave it

Kevin Adams: to Asia to put it put, put, put the right label on it.

Crystal Gillis: Right. So I ended up not [00:27:00] coaching.

I was like, I'm good. Like I don't want anything to do with coaching here at this school. But again, it was like another opportunity taken away.

Yep. Mm-hmm. It's

Crystal Gillis: like the more that you open your mouth or stand up for yourself, the more opportunities are taken away. But again, they wanna retain teachers of color, which makes no sense.

So I ended up, um. Basically teaching health classes, um, and weight training classes where that's a passion of mine as well. Um, and then since I wasn't coaching and then I started seeing more of the inequities specifically in the school system, um, I started getting involved in the equity work specifically at Smokey Hill.

So I got involved with DLT, which stands for the Diversity Leadership team.

noise: Yes.

Crystal Gillis: Um, and then I also got involved in sisterhood, but then you start seeing an equities in that as well. Right. I'm like, why [00:28:00] am I begging these kids to come before school? Right. And school starts seven, eight in the morning.

Kevin Adams: That's right.

Crystal Gillis: Why do they have to either come after school? So I basically, um. How students were talked about.

noise: Mm-hmm.

Crystal Gillis: Um, specifically with other staff members, students will come to me and so I feel like I just became like this. I don't even know if I was, I feel like I just became this advocate specifically for minoritized youth.

Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Crystal Gillis: Mm-hmm. Not even that I had a choice actually. I did have a choice, but it was more of how do I want my, if, if my kids were in the, in the public school system right now, how would I want, I would want them to have somebody that has support. So how do I do that? And then in order to do that in an authentic way that's real, that's gonna make actual [00:29:00] moves based off of action.

So I'm not just talking consequences come into play. Right. Of course. So for like, for the diversity leadership team, it was the youth that were speaking, I remember they wanted to do round tables with each of the. The subject groups. So they wanted a round table with the math department, a round table with the, you know the English department?

noise: Yes.

Crystal Gillis: And they basically told their teachers What's up? They're like, well, why are you sitting here teaching us this? We never, you know, like you never taught us about Black Wall Street. You never heard of it. Yeah. And like teachers would actually be like, no, I never heard of it. And I'm like, like this.

That's what you realize. Y'all don't, and so teachers specifically white educators, would feel like they were being called out. So then the diversity leadership team got turned to, well, how are those kids allowed to be in DLT? They're not credible kids to be in DLT and I'm just [00:30:00] assuming why,

Kevin Adams: why, why weren't they credible?

Because, because they were kids of color. 'cause their grades weren't good. Like, what was their reasoning?

Crystal Gillis: That I remember having one student, uh, his name was T Ray.

Kevin Adams: And

Crystal Gillis: Tay Ray was always gonna be teray, like the most authentic kid.

Kevin Adams: Let's go shout out. Like he would,

Crystal Gillis: he would, he would come to me and he'd be like, Hey Miss G, you know what that was right?

And I'll be like, I got it Teray. Like, I got it. Um,

Kevin Adams: I love those kids. Are

Crystal Gillis: you Shout out to Tay Ray. Shout out. Shout wherever you're, wherever, wherever you are. Wherever

Kevin Adams: do you think

Crystal Gillis: the, the Dean's office. Um, 'cause like he was really cool with the dean named Sarah Watts. Um, and he would just tell her like, Hey, I know I smell like weed right now, but you know what it is, Ms.

Watts, like he didn't sugar coat anything. And I was like, so like I learned so much from him. And I remember before spring break we were doing a presentation on school to prison [00:31:00] pipeline.

Kevin Adams: Yes.

Crystal Gillis: And Tay Ray wasn't there and Tay Ray came running in late and he said, um, he said, I'm sorry I'm late, but I'm late 'cause I just got outta jail.

Like he told

noise: literally in the

Crystal Gillis: lecture, literally we were in the lecture center and he like got the kid like the use the tension like that. And he said, Dave, yeah.

Kevin Adams: They wanted to hear what was he going through,

Crystal Gillis: right? And he said, I'm just telling you this 'cause I don't want you to be doing what I'm doing, but I'm getting better and I'm gonna graduate this year.

Kevin Adams: That's what, so, and he, and he's talking

Crystal Gillis: about the school to prison pipeline

Kevin Adams: in a real way after

Crystal Gillis: just leave. Right? And I remember he said, does anybody got any questions? And it was like dead silent. And then Tay Ray says, he goes, um. You gonna tell me, we sat here and did this presentation and y'all sat here, Y got no questions for 90 minutes and y'all ain't got no questions.

How about you? And he just started [00:32:00] going around handing his mic, let's go,

noise: let's go. Like, and the kids were like,

Crystal Gillis: uh, uh uh, and they, he's like, you got a question? I was like, you better, you better come up with the question. Are you

Dr. Asia Lyons: Tay Ray?

Crystal Gillis: Go? He got a, yeah. Wow. Right. And I remember that day I, um, when we had a conversation after, and there was a couple of the couple white students that stated statements where they didn't agree with school to prison pipeline.

And he's like, miss G, you know, that's why supremacy, I'm like Tay Ray. Like I, I know, I know. But it's step by step. And, and I just remember telling all the, the youth in DLT to be safe and don't do anything stupid over spring break. And that was the last time I seen him. Yeah. It ended up getting in the car accident, I believe the weekend coming back.

Um, and he passed away. Oh no. And he, um, that was even a thing, like they weren't even gonna say his name at graduation. So that was a push. Really.

Kevin Adams: Oh, no.

Crystal Gillis: At graduation. And he had no, yeah. [00:33:00] So, and he had

Kevin Adams: impacted the community and, and lived his life and everybody knew him, I'm sure, because

Crystal Gillis: he can't have

Kevin Adams: the personality that you describe and do what, what you did.

But, but I mean, I think what you, what you illustrate are the challenges that we have as black educators, you know, because, and I'm, I'm convinced of this in every episode of the exit interview, really, really solidifies this way of thinking. Is that. Black educators, we come in differently. Mm-hmm. And, and even if our intentions aren't to come in differently, it's put on a, like, you know, and we, and I grew up in the south, and, and one of the things that I was raised with was like, you, you represent every black person that's gonna come after you, every black person that's come before you.

And, and, and it, and it puts, it puts so much pressure on you. And, and when they come to you and they say, well, what are we gonna do for Black [00:34:00] History Month? What about Tay Ray? Yeah. I can't, I nobody can relate to t how, how, how do you make it work? Right. And you know what it is. You're like, I didn't even think about it.

But Teray, you know, like I treat it like I teach, treated everybody else. We all have struggles, right? Where we all need to be, uh, pushed and, and, and just respected for who we are. And. I just, you know, your story, I think emphasizes that point once again. And I, I just think people who are listening the exit interview need to hear this.

Um, I don't even know what the solution is to it, you know, because I think, like I said, partly it's on us, you know, when we come in, we, we carry certain attitudes about what we have to do for our community. And I, I don't wanna see that stop because that, that is culturally who we are. We never are going to, like, give up on our people.

Like, you know, like mm-hmm. That's one of the things I love about us, is that no matter [00:35:00] what, you know, I, I think about the movie life. I don't know if y'all have watched the movie Life. Yeah. But, but you know, like Eddie, Eddie, Eddie had his own problems. Martin had his own problems, his character, you know, but, but they stayed, they stayed with each other.

And that's how we gotta do, you know, like mm-hmm. Look, that's the truth. That's who we are. Yeah.

noise: Yeah. That's who we are. Yeah.

Kevin Adams: And we know, we, we know like where I am today is not where I'll be forever. It's not who I am. It it is it, you know, it, it is just a, a symptom of like where I'm at in a moment, you know?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, I'm sitting here as you're talking, Kevin, I'm thinking like, yeah, that all you, everything you're saying is true and I'm still, I'm thinking about, you know, I just said before I knew that he had passed, like, shout out to Tay Ray, wherever you are, and it's just like, that's just it, right?

They'll [00:36:00] say they're not even gonna call this child's name out of graduation.

noise: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Somebody gets to decide. Even if that was turned down, eventually they get to decide. That's the kind of power to not recognize someone's life.

Crystal Gillis: They ended up saying his name at graduation, but I'm like, why did it take, it should have

Kevin Adams: been a hesitation.

I've had students and I'm, I'm sure we, you know, we've all had other students who have passed away and we've seen it very easily to say a student's name at graduation. But I, I think it goes back Crystal, to your point like that, that teachers are like, why does this student need to be on DLT? If I have failing grades, I should probably be the first person you're talking to.

Right? Like, you really try to look at data to drive your practices as a building. That's, that's the first people I wanna know, like who I'm going to. And I think we don't trust kids of color to talk about their experiences and learning. Like we, we assume that they don't value it.

Crystal Gillis: No, no. We about to [00:37:00] break this up into ubstance of that.

But then I also started to realize like, well, okay, if I'm gonna put 'em in a situation like this, like how do I support 'em as an educator? Because now students are being pulled outta class, being targeted by educators. Even after I specifically said, do not come up and speak to the youth about what was spoke about.

That's right. This, that's their time to speak. Like they would still do it. They would still, I said, this is a form of oppression if you decide that's right to pull this child out of your class, to speak to them about something that you have the opportunity to speak to in this whole entire group where they have support.

Right. Don't do that. But they were still doing that. And that's also when I realized a lot of complacency, specifically with educators, even some educators of color as well. Yep. To where I'm just like, is anybody, I felt like [00:38:00] I was in the Twilight Zone. Yes. I was like, is anybody else seeing this? Or we're just gonna sit here.

Is this just me? Is it,

Kevin Adams: this is like really

Crystal Gillis: Right. And I felt like I was, I was the only one. Like I would have like my specific, like, I'll be like, okay, well I can speak to this dean, or I could speak to this, you know, librarian. Okay, this person supports minoritized. So I had like my, I can't even count 'em on one hand, like three, yeah.

White, white folks that I would direct students to if I needed to. But it was always, there was either no action behind it, specifically from white folks, or there was fear behind it, or it was them coming to me and I'm consulting them on how to do their job. And I'm like, this is exhausting. Like, how do I start to move these pieces to where I was like, we need to make DLT the, [00:39:00] the youth need to get some kind of.

Credit for the labor that they're doing. Let's at least give 'em a credit. So we ended up, yeah, having that club be, have them have a credit. But I still wasn't satisfied 'cause I'm like, they're still coming in before school.

Yep.

Crystal Gillis: After school. Or they have to pick them between sports and clubs. So I wanted to make it a class.

I'm like, well, we'll make it a class.

Kevin Adams: Yes.

Crystal Gillis: We can make it a class during, like, y'all should be able to get the support throughout the school day. Um, and then it was like, you don't have a curriculum. All right, we'll build a curriculum, built a curriculum. It's not like, how do we know that this curriculum's gonna work?

I'm like, okay. Yeah. Okay. So then, um, I believe it was Jennifer Ovitz, she was, um, she's a librarian at Smokey Hill. She goes, Hey, here's this organization called Yapa. Like they're [00:40:00] already in Aurora, you know, they got a curriculum. I was like, there we go. There's a curriculum.

Kevin Adams: There we go.

Crystal Gillis: Give 'em the curriculum.

Well, you can't teach it 'cause you don't got a social studies. I'm like, are of course kidding me right now. Right. Then we get around that and then Sarah Watts is um, one of the deans at Smokey Hill. She goes, well I got that background so we can put my name on it. That's right.

Kevin Adams: That's

Crystal Gillis: right. And you lead it.

I was like, all right, cool.

Kevin Adams: Shout out to co-conspirators.

Crystal Gillis: Right. And for whatever reason, and I still don't know till this day, they won't make, oh, this is what it was. It was because Yas a wanted to use Cherry Creek school district's name. And I was just like, why would an organization like Yas a wanna use y'all's name?

When you're not a district of inclusive excellence. Like, like why would they want to use your name? Yeah, for real. And this was specifically, and I'm [00:41:00] thinking in my head like it's the time to do it. Because we had all, I had administrators of color. The principal was an administrator of color, the assistant principal was an administrator of color at the time.

Lord, what was her name? She passed away Asia. What was her name? Alicia. She was the assistant. Alicia was there, right. We had Chuck Puga there, we had Andre Bala, administrators of color. Did we even have the only, and then there was Matt Gonzalez, um, all administrators of color. So I'm like, we going do this now if we're gonna do it.

And that's when I started realizing the complacency and just that, that hierarchy of power where I'm like. We're afraid to like, make this a class.

Kevin Adams: And that's, and kids were engaging and talking about their education, which I know, like whenever they can drive, like, this is, this is [00:42:00] what we want. And as a, as a social studies teacher, like engaged, this is civic learning.

This is the big picture, right? It's like, what do we have education for if it's not to raise kids to be involved. And like the best example of being involved is, is being able to speak on your education and what you need as a student. We know that, like all the research says that that's like the highest level of learning for young people.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. So I have a question then. Like it's, it, there's a, these are a lot of straws right? For the, on the camel's back. Right. All the, and the straws have been being put there for a long time. Mm-hmm. Since Simran elementary days. We always ask the question, you know, like, what was the straw? You don't work in Cherry Creek School District anymore.

Um, what was the last straw where you were like, you know what? It's just time to go. I don't feel like doing the limbo and all the moves and [00:43:00] the shifts that's needed to, to dance for Cherry Creek.

Crystal Gillis: It was just the, the, actually seeing, seeing education. I not, it's not education. Seeing schooling for what it, what it is.

I'm like, there's just so much complacency.

Hmm. Like,

Crystal Gillis: how are we, how are we, like, we're literally, like, in my head, I'm, I'm looking at it like we're literally killing our babies sitting in their restrooms,

Kevin Adams: spirit, murder. Like

Crystal Gillis: we're right. And I'm like, at the time. Because like when COVID hit, I had two students that committed suicide and that was a deep reflection.

'cause one of those students was a part of DLT. And the other one, um, was in my, I think it was like a flag football class or something like that. And even though I wasn't directly, I didn't directly impact that suicide, but if they were in [00:44:00] my space

for

Crystal Gillis: at least a semester every other day, I still contributed to that suicide some kind of way.

Mm.

Crystal Gillis: And that was just a realization to where I'm like, if I don't, I don't want that to happen on my account. And even with me being a part of Cherry Creek School District, or if I was a part of Aurora Pub, whatever district, I'm still a part of any student. That dies, whether that's through suicide, whether that's through school shootings, there's some that's that there's some type of responsibility that lies on me as an educator and the complacency behind that to where I'm like, as educators, why are we not, if we're supposedly sitting here supposed to educate, you know, and support our youth, why aren't more of us standing up for our youth to prevent this from happening?

Because it's [00:45:00] there like it's there. There would be times where I would see warning signs from like stuff that students would write and I would go to the school psych again that, that law of command, like, you need to go here, then here, then here. They'll be like, well, they didn't, they didn't do anything yet, so we can't really, I'm like, you guys like this isn't a, so just that complacency specifically with people that I was around.

I feel like my vibrational energy didn't match that. So there was just a lot of conflict specifically. Um, and then it was just also like the racial battle fatigue and then my own health to where I'm like, I'm tired of coming in here and having to like meditate and then, and then weight lift and then coming into my office and like have my, my Himalaya rock and my essential oils and my pictures of my kids.

So I knew when I did leave my office [00:46:00] and it's like, okay, let me gear up.

noise: Yep.

Crystal Gillis: Like then I can, I have this place to come back to. But eventually, like after seven years of dealing with the same shit, you're like, okay, these pictures I've seen before, I smelled this cent before. I'm tired of looking at this damn rock.

It's about to go upside somebody's head. So I probably, probably just wave now. Yeah. Right. Where it's like it's. We have this student die, this student died. This student's, you know, getting arrested. This student's being escorted on my class and I'm like, we're not doing anything different. And then I would sit in equity meetings to, I'm like, what are we, what are we talking about?

Like, they'll sit here and talk about the achievement gap or the opportunity gap.

Kevin Adams: Yep, yep, yep, yep.

Crystal Gillis: I don't even look at like a complacency gap. Whoever's complacent. Right. But I'm like, why don't you put people's pictures? We got students in this school right now.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Now

Crystal Gillis: I want you to post their pictures up there to make it seem so [00:47:00] that these other educators, I say these 'cause I didn't like being a, I didn't even like being associate.

I didn't even like telling people I was an educator in the Cherry Creek School

noise: District.

I was

Crystal Gillis: like, why? I want, I want them to, to stop looking at our youth, specifically our minoritized youth as like this number.

Kevin Adams: That's right.

Crystal Gillis: We're like this piece of data.

Kevin Adams: That's right.

Crystal Gillis: We just had at the time, it was like three students that ended up doing some shit in Erie, Colorado, got convicted, put their pictures up there.

We're a part of that problem too. Yes. We're a part of this student suicide. We're a part of this student being put their pictures up there. So it's like the, it's just like this gap between the district doing data. Instead of like, it's not humanizing. Mm-hmm. Like the data and humanization, they're, they're not connecting.

And that's when I, I realized, and then having multiple conversations with Asia. 'cause I remember I was like, Hey, I'm [00:48:00] part-time with Yes. But now like, aren't you proud of me Asia? And Asia's like, mm,

noise: getting there, but not, not quiet. Asia's like, you got, you got one foot out the door. Come on, come on, come on, let's go.

Jump over this. We're free.

Crystal Gillis: I remember Asia saying like, okay, so next year you're gonna be part-time, but like you're still part-time there. So I was, I'm like, Asia, I got it. It's good. August, I lasted three months and I was like, I'm done.

noise: Mm-hmm.

Crystal Gillis: I was like, yes, but you got this full-time position available.

'cause I'm ready to walk out.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. Took

Crystal Gillis: like a huge pay cut.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Hold on, let's hold that. Let's hold that conversation for the break. Break. Okay. Let's take a break and then we're gonna come back and talk about. Yapa talk about what, like all things you're doing right now, um, if you think schools are able to support black teacher retention, all those things.

But let's just pause for right now. Okay.[00:49:00]

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Dr. Asia Lyons: So before the break, you started getting into like the afterlife, right? Like what we talked about the last straw. We talked about this like exhaustion and this battle fatigue around, um, like just trying to do all the things.

And I just happened to have in front of me, Dr. Floyd Cobb's book, who used to work at Cherry Creek in his book. And I have just a section on racial battle fatigue. And you know, this idea of like hypervigilance, right? Mm-hmm. Trying to do all the things for all the people and just constantly getting like all these doors slammed in your face and not really just your face in the face of the children [00:51:00] that you support, right?

Yep. Um, so now we are here and you're like, I'm out, I'm good. And you started talking about yapa. So please, first of all, shout out to Dr. Janice Mackey. That's my girl. I forever, she was my first client as a consultant. I consult some time. If folks know, I, I have a consulting firm, Alliance Educational Consulting, and she was the one who said to me, you should start consulting.

So I will always be her and her good graces. I, I love her forever. So tell us about Yas ppa. Tell us about your experience and all the things that you wanna share about that and how else you're supporting the community too.

Crystal Gillis: Yeah, so like with Yapa, I knew first I was like looking for ways out of the district, like when I was at Cherokee Trail, but I was like, I didn't really know how to do that.

I knew I still wanted to support youth and I remember having the opportunity. I never really, I never was really evaluated, um, when I was [00:52:00] at the high school level. So like when you do these evaluations, there's supposed to be people that come in and like help coach you. So at the time I was part-time at Sspa and I'm seeing Asia like in some of our meetings and I'm like, hold up.

They get coaching, like what kinda initiatives. I remember calling up Dr. Mackey and I'm like, Hey, I know, like I'm not full-time with Yapa, but you think I could get some of that coaching from Asia? So like I can implement that in Yapa spaces. And, and she's like, that's cool with me, but you gotta ask Asia.

Um, and I remember having a conversation with Asia to where I'm like so complex where I'm like, oh, okay, I gotta do this and that and this. And I'm like, I can't really leave because like my parent and da da da da da. And then Asia's like, just go where the kids are. Like why are you? And I was like, oh shit.

You're right. Like,

Kevin Adams: that's right.

Crystal Gillis: Okay. Like I can do that. Um, so I ended up having conversations with Janice, like, Hey, I'm available if you want me to be full time. Like, I just kept plugging that in her [00:53:00] ear.

Yeah. Like, I

Crystal Gillis: was like, let me just keep plugging that in her ear. And then eventually like the opportunity came up, um, to where I was able to work for Yapa.

Full time to, I tried doing Yapa full-time and then working part-time at Smokey, but I like that didn't work till I was like, uh, I'm just gonna be out. And um, YAPA has been like this humanizing space where I've been able to work specifically with dope educators

Kevin Adams: ask. Um, that's what the goal is and

Crystal Gillis: co coaches, um, having somebody like Dr.

Mackey to where I remember the first like check-in that I had with her, um, I was like, I thought it was gonna be like this. Okay, well what are you doing in this space? What are you doing in this space? What are you doing with the youth? And it was just like, how are you doing? And I'm like, oh shit. Like we're on that kind of level

Kevin Adams: checking in.

Yeah. So it was just

Crystal Gillis: like this humanizing space to where it wasn't about like the healing [00:54:00] sessions that I was running. It wasn't about me meeting hours, it wasn't about if I was coaching, it was like, how are you doing in this space? Like, how can I support you? Um, and my healing has, when I even look back in childhood, has been specifically, um, through black women.

And that has been,

Kevin Adams: thank God for black women,

Crystal Gillis: right? That has been liberatory, um, for me. And that was something to where I started working at Yapa part-time, or even when I was full-time, and then I was at Smokey Hill part-time. It was hard to make that shift. It was hard to like, I was like, ready to leave smoking.

I'm like, okay, yes. Finally I get to work with Yapa. But it was hard to make that shift where I'm like, I can't sit here and do this authentic liberatory humanizing work to where there's action behind it, and then go back to CCSD where [00:55:00] it's this facade of entrance convergence and. Mm. Politics and we're gonna do it to make it look like we're kind of doing it.

Yeah.

Crystal Gillis: While our youth are being killed. Mm-hmm. Or like you said, spiritually murdered.

Kevin Adams: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Crystal Gillis: Spiritually murdered in the classroom.

Kevin Adams: That's right.

Crystal Gillis: Um, and that's basically when I made that shift to Yapa. Um, I came on Yas a as a community liaison. Um, and I basically, it was when COVID hit and it was just me working with, um, NAACP youth.

'cause I was like that bridge between the naacp Aurora branch and Yas a and I just asked the youth like, what do you guys want and what do you need? And that was like the first conversation. I didn't even know it was gonna be a thing, but they were like, we need healing. So it was interesting how it all came, like me and Asia talk about like vibrational levels and [00:56:00] being on our life path.

And I was always into health, um, and being a health teacher and they were like, we need healing. And I was like, oh, I got you. And we ended up doing these healing sessions, um, that haven't gone away. So I've continued to do healing sessions and now those are implemented specifically at Empower High School and Hinkley High School.

Um, I do them the first and third Friday for youth in the community as well. And then also it's nice being in, um, spaces to where I can actually make change, um, but also having like the support behind that as well. That's the, like with Yapa, I have support behind it. There was no support specifically in the district, regardless of how big the district is.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. Um,

Crystal Gillis: yeah,

Kevin Adams: it for our listeners, will you guys just tell us what YAS PPA is? [00:57:00] Or like, I think, I think that's important for people to understand.

Crystal Gillis: Yeah. YAS ppa, it stands for Young Aspiring Americans for social political activism. So Yesss P is, uh, organization that's specifically around youth voice. So even like adults in that space is never about me or Dr.

Mackey or the other educators. It's youth coming in that space and like, Hey, this is what I'm hearing, this is what I'm seeing. I need your support. And then we basically do what we need to do to get them what they need. So there's different coalition spaces. So we have like cops out in Aurora, which is where students are advocating and saying like, we, we don't want them in our schools.

We have, yes, Aurora Youth Coalition to where. They're looking at things in regards to what's going on their, what's going on, excuse me, in their community and how they wanna change that. And specifically in [00:58:00] policy spaces, we have the Denver Youth Coalition, we have concurrent enrollment. So there's all these spaces that basically tie into, um, like social activism and, um, social sciences.

And one of the reasons why I did get involved specifically with Yes, because when I did see specifically minoritized youth, um, being affected in my classrooms

mm-hmm.

Crystal Gillis: I stopped going to the school psychologist at Smokey or the deans at Smokey. I'll call up Dr. Mackey and I'll be like, Hey, I got this youth right here and they're struggling.

What resources do we have? And she'll be like, oh, we got da da da da da. And she's like, connecting me with all these community. Leaders. Leaders that I had no idea about. Yes. Like I'm talking about like mental health support. Yes. Like specifically for a black male student from a black male therapist. Yes.

And I'm like, if we so

Kevin Adams: important.

Crystal Gillis: Right. And I'm like, if, if, if an, if ya Sspa [00:59:00] could do this, like this is what I want. But I then that's when I was like, well how, why can't a district do this? That's right. Like they completely have the funds to do, why can't they do this? And it wasn't just that she didn't stop there.

She was like, oh no we, we got this. No, I got this attorney. I'll let me hook you up with this person. And oh wait, the family's dealing with this. Oh I got this place where you know we can get the family food. So it was more than what I asked for specifically for just this one student. And I'm just like, this is how we make change based off of action.

Um, so yeah. Ya sspa I feel like it would be hard for me to explain specifically what ya sspa is just specific. 'cause it's so. Not just with what it represents, but what it represents to the community. Yes. And then like what it's done for me personally, and I've never worked for an organization to where I've been able to get personal growth and like financial stability.

Kevin Adams: Yes. Uh, very important like that. That's [01:00:00] what I think as educators. That's what we went into, you know, at four. And it, it sounds like a, a beautiful organization and, and like everything about it, as I pulled up the webpage, I'm just like, how have I not heard about this? This is like, this is something we all need to hear about.

Uh, but how can people support Yapa, our listeners and, and what can they do to kind of help to make sure if they, if they value, um, these types of organizations and services for students, which I think are critical for us to really have a genuine democracy. Mm-hmm. Like this, this is what we're working for.

This like, as a social studies teacher, this is what we're about, but how can people support,

Crystal Gillis: I think that people can support when we see our minoritized youth struggling and just to be real, like, okay, this school system ain't gonna do nothing for you. Like it might do a little, some, but it's not gonna get to like the depth of our trauma [01:01:00] specifically.

So come on and send 'em to Yapa. Like we got 'em over here. Like, if y'all ain't gonna do anything with them Right. And you're not gonna do it Right. And authentically and organically mm-hmm. And wholeheartedly, and you're just going to, you're gonna halfass it, then just send them over here to Yas PPA to where they're gonna get that nurture and care.

And also, I'm still pushing for Yas Yapa to specifically be in our school systems.

noise: Yes.

Crystal Gillis: Because that's a way to specifically dismantle them. And until our education system realizes that our practices need to be dismantled, because we can't even do it with language, even like the word retain. I'm like, y'all can't, y'all aren't gonna keep teachers of color using the word retain.

Right. Like that's, it has to be dismantled. Yes. And until white supremacy and whiteness is spoken about, instead of how our students of color need to be fixed. Yes. Right?

Yes. Like,

Crystal Gillis: nothing's going to change. So that's how I feel like Yapa, um. [01:02:00] Can be supported. For sure.

Kevin Adams: It matters. And any kind of

Crystal Gillis: donation would be nice too.

I'll just throw that out there.

Kevin Adams: Donation money. Money matters. Money, money matters.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. Audience, money matters. Listen, write a check. Audience. Right? Okay. Let's

Kevin Adams: go get it on it. Yeah.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Donate. So, um, I think you, you talked, you touched upon this, um, but I do wanna know, do you feel like, um, or what would advice would you give if there is advice, what advice would you give to districts, to unions, to colleagues, black, white, or otherwise about like, keeping black educators in the school district spaces?

Would, would you give advice? Is there anything you could say or, no?

Crystal Gillis: I mean, I'm sure there's plenty I could say. I don't think they want to hear it,

but I know there's plenty I could say. Um, but for me it's more about the [01:03:00] action behind it. Like I can say it, but what action do I need to put behind that? Yeah. And like, the only thing I could think of is just understanding the language that our, like our, our school system u our school systems use. So even like the word retain, that means to continue to have or keep possession of

Kevin Adams: Yes.

Where

Crystal Gillis: teachers of color are not

Kevin Adams: object. I'm interested in being retained.

Crystal Gillis: Right, right. So you're not, you're not, I'm not hearing any language of how do we, you know, love or nurture or honor or, you know, protect our teachers of color. Like none of that language is being used. How do we hold people, places, or things accountable that are forcing cultivate of color right out of the school system, which is white supremacy.

Right. And again, if you keep putting that on the back burner, there's not going to be any teachers of color. That are educating youth that look [01:04:00] like us. And I remember again, being in one of those round tables to where the principal at the time, which was Chuck Pega, he stated, well, we're gonna get more teachers of color.

And I remember stopping him and I said, don't bring any teachers of color here if you're not gonna support him. Period. And like he just again, acted like I didn't say anything. Right. But I don't, until white supremacy is the conversation of equity work specifically in the district, they're not going to be able to retain teachers of color.

That's why you have so many, specifically in CCSD, we have our, I believe it was three of our administrators of color passed away. I'm like, I ain't trying to sit here and work in this district for another 14 years and then just die after I.

Kevin Adams: That's right. Don't, I ain't dying for y'all. I ain't dying for y'all people.

Right. I ain't dying for y'all people. I'm [01:05:00] sorry.

Crystal Gillis: And supposedly it was 27 teachers of color that left the district last year.

Kevin Adams: Good for them. Liberated. So freedom.

Crystal Gillis: I do not my decision and leaving. They have, and it was one of the best decisions that, and I don't even know how it worked out. It was just like I resign.

I remember typing up my letter to Chuck P. I was, I basically told him, I'm not proctoring these acts and sat like, we all know a systemically racist. I'm contributing to oppression when I'm proctoring these tests. So I'm not gonna do it. I'm not going to any meetings that contribute to my oppression, however, this is what I'll do instead.

So it wasn't like I was just trying to get out of working. Yeah. Like I came up with alternatives that were gonna be best for me and my healing because nobody was coming up with accommodations for a black female teacher. And I remember him coming back with an email and [01:06:00] he said, well, according to, you know, the Cherry Creek school district laws and policies, and then I just hit him with my resignation letter and it felt so good.

gerardo : Ah. I was like,

Crystal Gillis: sign a,

noise: like I got you. Got you, got you. You

Dr. Asia Lyons: know what though? Let's talk about that. Like how many of us who have heard or hear just heard you say that? And said he came back with it, and you came back with it like Uno, uno out, like slap, slap, like reverse, reverse. Draw two, draw two, UNO, uno out.

And it is, it, it's like I'm sitting here listening to this and I, I love that for you. I love that for you. I love that for every educator who was like typing up their letter, letter of resignation and like really stepping out there. Right. And like you said, for you it was a pay cut, but you decided the value and it's gonna work out and you're not starving.

It's been a while now since you've been out [01:07:00] here. And so I think that's a big part of it. Just thinking about people that I've, I've been talking to a lot of folks recently in the last couple weeks who are like, what should I do? How can I, how do I get outta here? I don't know how to get outta teaching.

And the big part I've always said, this is mindset. You gotta believe, you've gotta believe that you are more valuable and when you leave teaching, you won't die. Which is the premise of this podcast.

noise: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Right. You didn't die. Not a single person who has been on our show has just balled up and disappear into the ether.

Right. We survive, we thrive, we help our communities, we do dope shit. Right? That's right. And I need folks to understand that we keep going. Mm-hmm. We move on. We, we we're fine. We're fine. We grow too. And we grow and we're better off and our kids are better off and our families are better off. Yeah. And we can be pregnant and, and Crystal, I know I'm gonna tell Crystal all her business, but Crystal is pregnant [01:08:00] right now.

There we go. It's a boy. It's a boy. I got your present already wrapped and she, I'm pregnant with

Crystal Gillis: the pay cut.

Dr. Asia Lyons: And doing better than I was before.

Kevin Adams: That's right. Healthier. Feeling better.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Healthier. Right. Versus your first pregnancy where it's like, I don't know if we can have you work here because you're fragile.

Right. Black women. Enslaved black women. I know, I

Kevin Adams: know. That's the truth. We can work

Dr. Asia Lyons: like enslaved black women have been working on this. Right. But Turtle Island

Crystal Gillis: forever. Right. And like working with Sspa to where again, I had my quarterly with Dr. Mackey and she's like, so what do you want your maternity leave to look like?

And I'm like, wait, hold up. Like, wait, I don't got like six weeks for like a vaginal birth or eight weeks for C. What do you want it to look like? I'm like, oh shit. Like I, and I like have, I'm still sitting here trying to, I'm still sitting here trying to process what I want my maternity leave to look like and I'm doing March.

noise: Yes. And I'm

Crystal Gillis: like, so calm. I'm like, my like, yes, they got me. That's like, I'm [01:09:00] not stressed about it or anything. That's great.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Oh, last question as we talk about what It's been great.

Kevin Adams: Yes. Uh,

Dr. Asia Lyons: we're, we're adding this one to our podcast. Good. New, first, first ever happened. You're the first person to answer this question.

So like, what's bringing you joy these days as a wrap up to our podcast tonight? Um,

Crystal Gillis: for myself specifically, it would just, um, being able to decolonize myself as a black woman.

Kevin Adams: Yes.

Crystal Gillis: Um, and I would not have been able to do that at CCSD.

Hmm.

Crystal Gillis: Like, that all came from my short, I'm like, oh, like my short time span with Yapa.

Um, so even with just like the language, I use, my thought process behind who I am and what I bring specifically to [01:10:00] spaces. Working with Yapa has allowed me to, it's actually forced me to hone in more on my faith, which that's brought me to places to where I've never imagined, like me and Egypt have had countless conversations.

I'm like, I'm not, I didn't expect to take a pay cut, you know? And being the home that I'm in right now or being in the neighborhood, I don't even know how. I'm still trying to figure out

Yeah. Yep.

Crystal Gillis: How I got here. But it's just my faith, um, being able to work from home, um, and be with my own children. Yes.

Being able to sit in spaces. Yeah. Being able to sit in spaces to where I can hear what educators are saying. Like if I'm in a parent conference or a equity meeting or a past meeting specifically for my children, to where I have the language to be like, yeah, we're not gonna do that shit today. Like, this is what you just said.

Um, but really just, I'm just enjoying the process of. [01:11:00] Being able to grow. 'cause in the district I was stagnant. There was no more growth for me. But being able to grow and decolonize myself, being able to work around colleagues that, I'm not sitting here like side eyeing, but more of like what? Like what do you got like, like I just, any person that I pick, any colleague that I pick specifically within Yas, but like I've grown from each one of them, even if that's them holding me accountable.

Right. We call it like calling in. But like I have Tracy where she's like, I do one-on-ones with Tracy Trinidad. And um, she's like, yeah, we don't use that language, use this. And I'm like, okay. You know, or holding me accountable for how I see certain situations, but allowing me to, it's reflection within myself.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Crystal Gillis: And that's something that educators, as educators, we have to do that in order to educate our youth. That's why. White educators need to reflect [01:12:00] on their whiteness and how it is portrayed specifically in classrooms and how their whiteness affects our minoritized youth. But there's no reflection there.

So it's really just been reflection. Being able to decolonize myself. That's been where my happiness has led for sure. And being able to be around specifically, uh, black women that have contributed to my healing. So thank you, Asia. You're one of them.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Of course, of course. Just keep showing up and pay that forward for sure.

I will. Um, well, another great episode. Thank you so much Crystal, for coming on. We appreciate you. Um. Audience, go out there, donate to Yapa, visit their website Y aapa.org. Um, and we'll see you on the next episode. [01:13:00] These.