A Love Letter to the Bronx with Kai-Ama Hamer

A Love Letter to The Bronx with Kai-Ama Hamer

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Exit Interviewer podcast for black educators with me, your host, Dr. Asia. We are in season six and the great guests keep on coming in. So I am really excited, uh, I got this, this, this, uh, interview is very special because, and Kai's gonna tell you a little bit about herself, but Kai's like a support person.

Remind me her name.

kai-ama--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_130652: Clarissa.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: Clarissa reached out and said, I really, I think that her story is great. And she was just like so adamant. So this is like, first of all, shout out to her, uh, to getting us together. But I'm really excited about your story. We had a chance to chat it up, and I felt like we could have had the interview right there when we were in our last session together.

Uh, but folks, welcome to the show, Kai Hamer. Uh, welcome. Tell us a little about, about yourself. So glad you're here.

kai-ama--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_130652: It's good to be with everybody. Um, Dr. Asia Lyons, I have to just say your name out loud, invoke [00:01:00] your love, um, that's behind your name. My name is Kai Hamer and I go by Kai for short. And shout out to my team member, Clarissa. Donna Lee

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_130652: I love her so much and I'm grateful to her for connecting us together. Um, I am proud black woman, first and foremost. I'm a mother. I'm a stepmom. I'm leaning in deep to my, um, stepmom this to the value of what that is, to be a stepmother. So I'm standing in that, um, shout out to my stepdaughter, Amber,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_130652: my biological son.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_130652: if I don't shout him out and I have another stepson, Jelani, I'm just, just like a little piece of myself that I hold on to. And uh, another part that I'm holding on right now is I'm a cat lover.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: All right.

kai-ama--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_130652: I have to cut the shut the door 'cause my cat will try to bust in here. His name is Lamar. That's the name that, uh, that he came with when I adopted him. His name was already Lamar. He was a [00:02:00] rescue and yes, he is a black cat. Did you know that black cats are the least adopted

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_130652: thought was only associated with the idea that black cats are bad or evil.

But guess what? Black dogs are the last adopted too. So when I went, um, to try to find a pet, I sought out black cats and I got Lamar. They say, you wanna change his name? I said, no, Lamar sounds culturally relevant.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_130652: name. And so I have Lamar, there's just a couple of anecdotes about me outside of like, um, the educator, um, realm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Lamar definitely is giving, uh, a black man's name who was raised in the seventies and eighties. Uh, yeah, I love that. And I did know about the cat. I did know about the black cat, but not the black dog.

kai-ama--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_130652: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_02-03-2026_110652: So interesting. Uh, ooh. Uh, well spit spitting all the facts [00:03:00] straight off the bat.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: All right. So Kai, tell us, um, how did you know the education was for you? I know some people talk about they learned that they were wanna be educators in third grade, or they found out through Teach for America, but what was your journey into education? How did you know it lined with you?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Good question. Um, I'm not sure that I knew that education was, for me, what I was certain of was that I love children. That was first and foremost. I love children for their curiosity, for their openness, for their honesty, because children keep it real. Um, and the way their face lights up when you teach them something new. so that's what I was. That's what I was drawn to. I became a teacher through, um, alternative, through an alternative pathway. I did not go to school or undergraduate school saying that I'm gonna get a BA in education. Um, I started out pretty early on being a camp counsel. in [00:04:00] afterschool programs.

That's what came first for me. If I speak my truth, I'm from New York City, I'm from the Bronx. I grew up really, I came of age, I'll say in the nineties.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: to be a rapper. That's legitimately what I was trying to do. And I was good at it

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: yeah,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: speak so myself, like the, um, I always wrote poetry. I was a writer.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: growing up in New York City, I wanted to rap and I was doing open mics and I was really good. And so the backside of that is you have to work. And so I always worked afterschool programs for day Camp Ums with children, while I was also pursuing a career in rap music

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: directly after high school. I went to college. I was in college working part-time and also going to open mics and trying to get a record contract. Um, doing all of those things at once. Um, one notable [00:05:00] experience that I remember, I was all, I was working at a, an afterschool program that was based in shelter for families, a

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: shelter for families in the South Bronx. And my title was actually teacher, it was in what they called the Brownstone School, which a brownstone is a kind of building. And it was like a sliver on the side and it had two floors. And that was their afterschool program. That was the, the recreational center that they had for the children there. And that's where I worked. And you know, I love kids that the children gravitated to me. We read books a lot, did after school homework help, um, and coordinated all kind of activities both after school and on the weekends. And it was my supervisor there who first planted the seed and I might've been like 19 or 20. And she said to me, you have a think about being a teacher. I was like, Hmm. 'cause I'm trying to be a rapper.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Right.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: really what it was then. [00:06:00] so I con I continued sort of working with children in those capacities, um, at some point. Okay. I didn't, I didn't blow up and, um, become a rapper, right? It was like, you, you're gonna go back to school,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: and finish your degree, what are you gonna do? But my, my work, uh, continued to progress more so in social services. 'cause I was working with a lot of families in shelters, several jobs. Uh, the last one in social service being a, um, case manager in a shelter

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Um, and I was going back to school. So at that point in time, I'm working all day long and I'm working on my ba at night and my son is, is a baby. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm hustling. I'm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah, I finished, I did finish my degree not in teaching, just in basic liberal arts. And it was like, what are you gonna do? You wanna be a social worker or perhaps a [00:07:00] teacher? Those are my choices. My mom is a social worker. So that was like a legitimate consideration.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: And then I came across the New York City Teaching Fellows

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Okay.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: it's an alternative certification program for adults who wanna change careers.

It's interesting 'cause I had just finished my ba, my, my career switch would've been like from social services to education,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: so much experience working, um, with kids and it was a com highly competitive program. I'm talking about group interview, to, uh, write your sample lesson, had to deliver your lesson to the group that you're interviewing with.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Um, really highly competitive. And it was, they were looking for special education teachers.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Let me pause you for one second. Um, and you mentioned your mom, which is what I'm gonna ask the question about your mom being in social work and you know, she's watched you, I don't know how she felt about you wanting to [00:08:00] be a rapper. I don't know if she was like, yeah, or like, girl, get a job. You had your son, you finished school when you told her, Hey, I think I'm gonna go for this teaching fellow program.

I think I'm gonna apply. I'm gonna go for it. Um, and then what was that conversation? Was she still thinking, was she pushing you towards social work? Was she saying, I don't care what you do, as long as you love it. What was that conversation like with, with her, um, during that time?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: yeah. My mother's, my mother. Um. Is the kind of mom that raised me. Like, be who you wanna be. she would not say, be a social worker because I, because I'm a social

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I want you to have the career that I want you to have. I have a mom that's like, who are you? Who do you wanna be?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: up in the world?

And you have the freedom to do that. And I say that so strongly because I wanted to be a rapper, and my mom was like, go for it.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: they letting the moms in the club, you know, and she was gonna show up and be [00:09:00] there. And my mother's, my mother, like, um, deeply religious church lady, and never for one second held me back

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: to be and how I wanted to show up in the world.

She always had my back. She's like, you wanna be a teacher? Go for it. Oh, you, there's this program you wanna go for, do it. Of course, of course you can do it. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. I love that. Shout out to her. So continue. Tell us about that, that fellowship, um, and all the things you had to go through to get in there.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah, so, so I got in highly competitive, but I did, um, make it in I absolutely loved it. It was cohort based. Um, so we had a group of teachers. There were about 30 of us in the cohort, cohort seven A. We were all special going to become special education teachers. And, um, they help you take all the exams and then you start your coursework. Um, and I got, they select a school. I got Fordham University

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: New York City, a really great, um, educational institution went through all [00:10:00] of my courses. The interesting thing is it takes two years to complete. Your degree and to get your certification. We got provisional certifications, um, in the beginning, take the test and then later on at the end you get your, um, certification or what was permanent at that time. Um, and they place you. So we basically got six weeks of student teaching and then they put you in a classroom. Uh, yeah. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: And I've heard that I, I heard that a couple times re just recently. Um, and through this, all the seasons, folks who are saying like, we had this amount of time, it was very intense. Six weeks, maybe eight weeks. And then we were in there and this is you, you had some training, but it was perhaps not enough to get, get you down the road.

Well, go ahead.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Wait, Dr. Lyons, wait a minute. And we were special, I'm gonna say it again. We were special education fellows.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: need is so great. [00:11:00] We were January P folks. So some people started programs in September, like you would do your stuff, you work in, in the, the summertime and then the school year begins and so you begin.

No, we were midyear. I was placed in a classroom in February I was the class's, like third teacher.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: My very first class, special education self-contained all boys with a para. I'm in the Bronx. They placed me in my own school district, so I'm close to home. So this felt like home.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I'm walking around the neighborhood and I'm waving, Hey, how you

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Like, I'm in my own community. Um, and I'm teaching both of the, so that was my, my placement teaching. And then I ended up with a permanent position also in, in, in my neighborhood. Um, but those were the, those were the conditions. It was like February, welcome. Here's your third teacher [00:12:00] of what I did notice though, um, I'll just say what it meant, what I believe it meant for the, for the boys to have like a younger black woman be their

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: That felt the first time. The reason why I'm saying that is 'cause the first time I took a sick day, the boys, they told me they were crying. They thought I wasn't coming back.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: oh.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah. They thought I wasn't coming back. And it was a C, third, fourth, fifth grade bridge class.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Hmm,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: on. It feels like yesterday to me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: sure,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: yeah, this was over 20 years ago, but for me it feels like yesterday.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: sure. And that impact, right? Like you said, they, they saw representation. This was your neighborhood, your community. And so for so many people who teach close to home, you understand that the students in front of you are also gonna be students who you'll see as adults who are working in different places in your community.

So it's a different level. It's an extra level obligation in my mind. Um, because, you know, like that's, I might know this [00:13:00] person's grandmother or I went to high school, maybe with this person's sibling or whatever. Um, so that's really important. I know that for a long time there's like been a lot of conversation about like pipeline programs specifically because they want so many people to go back into the communities in which they were taught.

Or where they lived so they can teach in those same communities because it's supposed to hopefully mean so much to them. Um, and so you were there and you did that pro, that class, had that class for how long?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: so I was there from February to June and then I got what's called the New York City is Excess, which means you. They don't have a place for you.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: is guaranteed when you, once you're in inside the Department of Education. But, um, I had to go to another school

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Okay.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: have sat around and then they wait until September to see if there is a position for you. But over the summertime I began to put my feelers out, um, and [00:14:00] interview in other schools in my own school district. And I ended up at the school that I would remain for 11 years, for the next 10 and a half years. 'cause I did like few months there. Um, yeah, I ended up at the place that I would spend the majority of my teaching career, which also was right across the street from my mother's house.

So I had lived in the building. Okay. And then I get this job at the school and I can turn, and there's my mom spill. I'm talking about a block away.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: was even closer, like feeling like my kids,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: school. Um, and wait, just 1, 1, 1 funny story. The very first, it's not the first day, it's like the day before, the first day of school, I get my class list, you get the roster.

These are your kids. Again, I'm a special education teacher. I'm brand new to the school and they gimme my list. And the parent coordinator, she is Puerto Rican, thick, thick, new Rican accent. And she's like, [00:15:00] Hamer, let me see, let me see your, your class list. Let me see who you have now. She's been there years.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Uh

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: list, she's like, oh my God, that's your class. You in trouble, girl. That was like, she was like, oh, those kids, they're a lot. You're

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: oh no.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: trouble. This was the day before, the first day

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Great. Right?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Thank you. Thank you. But she wasn't telling a lie.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. So tell us about that experience and, well, first of all, did you go to that school that you across from your mom's house?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: No, I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Okay,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: into that neighborhood in high school, so

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: got you.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: that elementary school, but I knew everybody

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Sure. Yeah. So, yeah, tell us about that. I mean, you, she starts you off, like said, go ahead and get ready. So that night before, I couldn't imagine how you were feeling, but yeah, we want to hear that whole experience.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I was a nervous wreck. I mean, I wasn't, it wasn't a brand new experience, only because I had done four months at a previous

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.[00:16:00]

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Um, so I did have some experience being in a classroom, opening it up, getting all of the, getting the work started. But it takes years to become an excellent teacher.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Say, say that again. Say that again.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: years to become an excellent teacher

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: like there's an expectation that you're gonna be excellent on the outset. There's an expectation that people hold for themselves. There's an expectation that the system holds. And I'm in the school, I'm in the Bronx, I'm in the hood, is Title one, 100% of the children in my school got free lunch.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: building behind next to my mom's building. You turn one way, there's a housing project. Majority of the kids come from that housing project. You go back three blocks the other way, there's another housing project. Thus what that was what, uh, fed the children. So when I say that, I'm saying that there's just a lot of need there.

And then you take a brand new teacher and you drop them in. Oop into one of the [00:17:00] highest need classrooms, which was a fourth, fifth grade self-contained special education class

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: who have mixed needs. Some are learning challenges and some are behavior challenges. And then you say, now go be excellent. And would come in in the morning a lot of the other classes, they'd line up in the cafeteria, in the gym, and you pick your class up from the gym and some would be, um, in the auditorium you pick. My kids were everywhere. Oh, why are you behind the soda machine? Oh, well this one, two of them is hiding in the bathroom.

These two, this was me like

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Now behind this solar machine though?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: seriously. You hiding over here you go. You know, that's,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: what I, um, that's what I entered with, but I also entered with a lot of understanding of the community in the neighborhood and even more love,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: was determined, and I would have the same students, some of the same students for two years, [00:18:00] because it was a fourth, fifth grade class, so

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Okay.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: graders would cycle up.

That gave me the opportunity to really build. genuine relationships with my kids. And one example of that, I, I won't forget, um, this one student who was being raised by her grandmother who was immobile,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: um, grandma could not, she left the house only in emergency circumstances. I'm assuming she could not move easily about.

And I knew that I would have her for fifth grade. Um, so in the summertime I went to her house at

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: mm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: times to do reading with her

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: want her to lose the skill that we fought so hard to get over the summer. 'cause summer learning loss is a real thing.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah, it is.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah. When it was report card time, I brought the report card 'cause it would be an issue.

You need a parent signature for every report card. Grandma couldn't come to parent teacher conference to sign it. So I brought the report card, uh, to her. 'cause I loved my kids. [00:19:00] They were

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: They were hard. It was hard. Those first couple of years was hard, but there was no, um, love lost.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: kids.

Yeah. I won't

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. Yeah. I do wanna talk, dig into more about your experience there. And you were at that school for a good number of years, so obviously there was something so many people who kept you there and you know, you're tied to the community and that love. But I, I do wanna pause for a second and ask the question of the role of your para professionals paraeducators, because I'm thinking about that, that f first stint at the first school and you said the para was there, and I'm thinking about the para that was in there in your classroom when you got there and showed you that list, or went through the list with you and the role of paraeducators in your time learning to be an excellent educator.

What was that like? What was that relationship like with folks as you were trying to figure that out? Knowing that they were established and, you know, paraeducator, shout out to them. They know they've [00:20:00] been everywhere. They've seen every, yes. So please tell us a little bit about, um, how they were able to support you, all those pieces.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: If you are preaching in New York City, we call 'em paraprofessionals. And if you are preaching a sermon on the power of, uh, paraprofessionals, I'm in the back. I'm on the choir, I said, pass the collection plate.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I could not do my work without a paraprofessional. In fact, uh, if the children in their IEP, if they're required to have a para, it's against the law to not have para.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: there's a challenge, there's a gap, there's a need. If I came in one morning and my para wasn't there, I'm in, in the window. Send help. You need the support. Send help somebody. They got me by myself.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Because you need the extra, um, hands, the extra brain, the extra support of the paraprofessional. I speak highly of paraprofessionals and if you have a tight partnership between [00:21:00] the, the lead teacher and the paraprofessional, the kids don't even know who the lead teacher

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: even know who's the para and who the lead teacher is because you built something so tight, so cohesive together. My first paraprofessional was Ms. Thompson. She was older than me, a older black woman of Caribbean descent. And she didn't play, and she taught me a lot. She said, you don't smile for the first month. You show these kids, um, a certain level of discipline and clarity from you. 'cause you're not, you're not their friend. You are their teacher. Um, and I won't forget, I, I won't forget her for as long as I live. Ms. Thompson, she was also from the community. She was from the neighborhood. Um, and, um, I'm always singing the praises of what it means to have a good para because I know it well.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. Thank you.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: So continue telling us, you were there for, you said a good number of years, so let's keep talking about that. Your experience there. Um, were you always in the classroom at that school? Some of the leadership [00:22:00] positions, some of the stories that you would like to share about that experience?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah, so I stayed at that school for 10 and a half years, two years I was in a self-contained classroom teacher. My third year we got a new principal and I became a social studies teacher.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: in this school, the social studies teacher did not have a classroom. I went from room to room. Um. With a cart. I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: had all my supplies and materials for my lesson in the cart, and I taught all the grades, uh, over the different, I was a social studies teacher for three years. I taught all of the grades, um, from kindergarten up to fifth grade in different variations of the years. The interesting thing is, while I did that, there's nothing that I did not do in the school.

I became the, uh, the union rep the teachers during that time. Um, I did the, the talent show. We never had a talent show. I organized the talent show, which included the [00:23:00] kids having tryouts during lunch.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Wait, wait. Well, we wanna know, did you rap?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I didn't rap.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Oh,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: rap music in. The talent show was for the kids. It wasn't for the,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: you were like, this is my chance. Yeah. I love that though. Oh, I love that.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: We did the talent show for the kids. Uh, I really believe that kids need a lot of opportunities to shine. And what stood out to me being a special education teacher was that my kids were smart. They were intelligent, but they couldn't

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: the, the gifts didn't come out academically because that's not the way their brains, uh, worked.

They worked, they were neurodivergent, their gifts came out in other ways. And so I was constantly looking for opportunities for the children to show their gifts different. I had one student, I won't forget him, Deandre, he was like, he couldn't, he was in fifth grade and for the life of him, he couldn't understand why he couldn't read.

That's dyslexic, right?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Sure.[00:24:00]

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: to make sense of it. Why? 'cause he's sharp and he's intelligent and he's like, he's trying the best he can. Why can't he read? Broke my Heart and I needed him to know. You are intelligent, you are sharp. 'cause he could tell you a story. He couldn't write the story, be, you know, his writing was filled with spelling errors.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: he's struggling to get the written words from his brain onto

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: But if you give him a recording device and you say, tell me your your creative story, just say it. Oh, he's gonna weave a picture for you. And so I wanted the kids to to know. That intelligence shows up in many forms that it is just not about your ability to read or solve a math equation.

Those skills are important. We are gonna continue to work on those skills. You'll continue to work on those skills all the way up to high school. But there are other gifts and talents that, as a teacher, I felt like it was my responsibility to support them [00:25:00] in building those skills and talents. So that looked like having a talent show, uh, having the kids try out, so the kids are singing and they're dancing and they're doing poetry, and they're doing all of those things.

Oh, we had a cash prize too, Dr. Lyons. We had

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Huh?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: prize. We charged tickets. Tickets were like two or $3. And then we used, um, we used those dollars to actually give the kids. Cash prizes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Um, so that was, that was a lot of fun. I eventually, I was, became the IEP teacher, um, and sat in on all the initial evaluations for students.

That also felt really important. The principal who came in felt like too many children were being, uh, referred for special education

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Sure.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: and we needed to do something about it. there was a direct link between, particularly the boys who were referred to special education the boys who ended up in jail.

Like that's a real statistic. I mean, we know it [00:26:00] is the school to prison pipeline,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: it to New York City. I went to a workshop, blew my mind, Rikers Island, which is, um, a notorious. in New York City, they, they could make the correlation between how many of those boys were sitting in that prison and how many of them sat in special ed.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Sure.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: we were to break that. so that was an important role for me to play. I I, after that, I did that for three years, and then finally I became the dean. Um, we had two deans. We had, it was a big school. We had 900 children in

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Oh wow. In a elementary school.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: school. 900 children. Um, yeah. And we were packed to the rafters. Now you say, how does that happen? Is because we were in a community that was going from houses to buildings. So where a single house would stand, uh, um. Contractors would come in, investors tear down a single house, right, [00:27:00] that you could rent or you could sell. And they would build a multi-unit where a single house was.

So now where one family lived in a house, you might have 10 families

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Wow.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: zoned to the same school. And that happened over a period of years when now the school is is packed. And so we had two deans, one for third, the fifth grade I was the dean for the students from K to two. And that ends up being. less about punitive and more about teaching behavior because you can't say to a 5-year-old, you know how to act. No, we don't. He's five.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: the planet for five whole years. This is his first time in the big school,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: he actually doesn't know what's expected of him in terms of behavior. He needs to be shown. She needs to be shown. And then the positive behaviors need to be reinforced in a way that is caring, in a way that is loving, um, because the children were so young. And so that was my charge. Um, in my final three [00:28:00] years, is how to help children how to behave, but with loving care. I wasn't the mean dean. Um, I was the loving dean, to, to, to be able to show the kids, uh, what the expectations of behavior were to be. But we had a whole school-wide system. We developed that over years. Uh, and in that way w was really able to change our school for the better.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I, I'm, you know, as you were talking, I'm also thinking about the demographic shift. You talked about one family to 10 families. Right. Um, and so then I'm thinking about, you said, packed to the rafters, 900 students in, in your school. What was the turnaround for teachers? Did you have folks like yourself that say 10 years or more, or did you have people kind of coming in and out?

What wa there? Were [00:29:00] there like a good number of black educators there? What was that like?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah. Say more about the turnaround. What do you mean by

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Well, I just mean like people leaving and coming and going. Teachers

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Oh, the

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: two years. Yes. Yes. Sorry. Turnover. Yes. Turnover.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: we had a lot of, we had a lot of stable teachers who stuck around for a while. the school was 75, about 70%, um, black Amer, African American,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: or black, I'll just say black. 'cause we had a lot of Caribbean families and then a lot of West African families and then black American families. And then we were 30% Latino or Latinx. And that was a mix too. Puerto Rican, Dr. Mexico, mainly some from South America. So that was the demographic of the f of the families there, of the students there. the teachers were. I'm gonna say, uh, 60 40, maybe 60%. We had a good amount of black educators. Um, not as many, uh, [00:30:00] Latinx educators. We had a good amount and we had a good amount from the community. We had a good amount from the community, but still majority white teachers. Um, and for my time there, my principal was a white woman and we had a black ap, a white and, and two white ap. So that just gives you like the racial, um, demographics that, that were, that were playing out. My principal was pretty good at that time. She was really stripped, but she was clear about. What she wanted and how she wanted the school to be, and her expectations. She had high expectations for the educators. She could be pretty tough and I'm, I'm giving you that context 'cause I, so that you can understand, um, why there was some turnover, but not total turnover.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: people really, uh, really enjoy is not the right word. They can function with, um, a tough [00:31:00] leader and some people can't. Uh, I was the union rep, so I saw some teachers really struggle with having a principal who wasn't always nice.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: is the best way to, is the best way to say it. Um, yeah, yeah, I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: for 11 years. It was really impactful on me,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: experience there. and at some point that I wouldn't be there forever.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. Let me ask you, before we talk about this, like, you know, the exit of, from that school,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: you have an opportunity to be mentored by someone or mentor someone while you were in the, even if it was a different, um, school, did you have the opportunity to be mentored or mentor tour?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: short answer is no. Um, they, there aren't enough supports for new teachers. You are expected to [00:32:00] off a tree and flap your wings and hope that you can keep yourself afloat. if you want help, you could ask for help. There were a lot of older teachers there, who could give unsolicited guidance. but

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Always.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Right. There was nobody assigned to me. Um, you have to go and search out your own answers. Um, it's like, so, so when you say like a, a mentor there, I was not in a system of mentorship.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: system, which means like somebody assigned you, it's

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: This is your mentor, you are a new teacher, you're gonna have this mentor for two years, and this mentor's gonna help you and be with you, help you set up your classroom, you can go no such a thing. No such thing, um, existed. not, actually, not in the fellowship that I was in. Uh, we did our coursework together. and not within, [00:33:00] gonna listen and say, that's not quite fair. I remember having a, a male He was an older gentleman who worked for the DOE came to help. Uh. help.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I need. Help is not a checkbox. Help is not as I came on your prep period and we talked for 20 minutes about how you could do your library. That wasn't the help that I needed.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: so I say that because programs will say we assist, but who's determining the value of that assistance, the worthiness of that assistance.

If it's not coming from the teachers, I, it is coming from the system we send help check the box, then that's not good enough.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I, I'm hearing that more and more that people did not receive an official mentor, and if they did get assigned someone, they came every once in a while and it wasn't what they needed. Especially in those early years when so many of us are just [00:34:00] floundering, really trying hard.

Um, and the, you know, the older teachers are like, should we ask them? I don't want them to judge me, but they know all the things. But then, you know, and so it's really tough. Um, so thank you for ask, answering that question for me. And so then the question is, now you two 10 and a half years, what was that time where you knew it was trying to, it was time to start thinking about transitioning and doing something else?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah, there was, don't have another way to describe it except, a restlessness in my spirit. That's how I'm gonna say it. It was a restlessness in my spirit that probably started happening. I stayed there 10 and a half years. probably started happening year eight.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Sure.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I was ready. I had, I had many role shifts too.

It wasn't because I was in a singular role. I had been a self-contained classroom teacher, and then I had been a social studies teacher, and then I had been an IEP teacher and I was doing small groups, and then I became the dean. [00:35:00] So, um. I was getting, I was receiving more progressively challenging roles.

And I think that was because I was good at what I was doing and I was good at building relationships with the other teachers and fostering connection among everyone. I did the retirement party for a number of years. I'm the one knocking door. We going to the retirement party. You going, you know, where's y'all, I got your ticket money.

You gonna give me half? This is me knocking on your door check box. You paid half the that. I'll come back next Friday for the other half. Like

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: really, um, that, that kind of a glue. I loved my job. I was in my neighborhood with my babies doing hard work. That doesn't mean sometimes I didn't go home and be exhausted.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: sure.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: mean I was on the fourth floor and I didn't wanna scale down the side of the building my pocketbook. Some days you just, you've had enough, but gen. I loved my job and I loved those kids. I take anything off a 5-year-old, I take anything off a [00:36:00] 7-year-old now you 37. I'm, I you, there's an expectation of how you're supposed to show up for work that's different for

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: And so I began to feel restless, like I wanted to do more honestly. I was like, this can't be it. This, this is it. This is it. This is, this is what I'm supposed to do for the next, uh, 25

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I knew that there was more that I wanted to do, to affect change in a different way. And I, I had to, uh, I had to look back at the year. Um, it was the year that. Mike Brown, was, was murdered and there was a lot of talk, I think it was after Trayvon Martin I, I shared them in the black community largely. And there's a, there's a lot of black teachers, although not the majority. I, I witnessed the split. a split between when all of this, the beginning [00:37:00] of the upheaval started to happen in bru, police brutality, um, teachers' attitudes around, um, the children. Uh, uh, and I'll, and I'll, let me be more specific. I, it was during that time and I put a post on Facebook about, uh, Mike Brown. I can't tell you the, the specifics of it now. I don't remember, but. of my colleagues, um, who are white women, they were, they didn't like it. They were uncomfortable with it. they didn't, instead of coming to me to say, what's this post?

Tell me more. They went directly to my principal and they said, Hamer, put this post on. We are not comfortable. It was a group of women that I found out. They carpooled together, they all drive together. And my principal pulled me to the side and she shared it with me. And she painted no mind. You know, she's like, they, she didn't get upset with me.

I was not reprimanded. She was letting me [00:38:00] know what happened. And that crushed me. And the reason why I felt crushed was because these were women who I believed I was in relationship with. And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: So,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: directly to me,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: own conversation about what Hamer put, about this very sensitive issue that's happening in the media and happening, uh, all around. And I felt like. How could they, I, I really felt like they couldn't effectively our children. That was a truth that I was holding to me, cannot instruct without love you cannot love without understanding you cannot understand without relationship. if you wanna know how good a teacher's instruction is, you ask about their relationship with their students and their families. [00:39:00] And it just struck me by their response to what was happening in the media with the police brutality, that there's no way that they could truly be instructing children. You want to know why these children can't read 'cause you don't love them. And that was real to me. That was real to me. And I had to get up out of there and it, it wasn't safe for me to be there. I had to find a way to reach those teachers before they were 20 years entrenched

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: because I, these teachers were, they were older than me,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: been there years

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: me if they were on the call right now. They'd say, I absolutely love those children. And I have to say, how do you demonstrate that? Then? What is the demonstration of that? Because you are, um, demonizing a young black man [00:40:00] 'cause you don't understand his lived experience because you're in the hood every day with black children and can't wait to get out.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: can't wait to get out. It's four o'clock. They done packed up their classroom. They getting outta there. I've, I've seen it too many times. It's parent-teacher conference. You gotta be there till eight o'clock and they're nervous. nervous. I won't forget it. I won't forget that feeling. So you are coming in here to teach every day, but you are terrified. You can't teach afraid. You can't tell me. That doesn't affect the quality of your instruction. If you are that afraid, don't be here. And to me, um, that is a challenge. But I also believe that it is, it's not all lost that, um, that a change can be made. I do believe that. I do believe that. Um, but. [00:41:00] To me, there's not good enough professional development for educators. effective, professional development that helps teachers get to the root of who they really are, what their real values are, and how those show up, in their instruction and in their relationships with families. Um, and so it was on the heels of that that I left with a lot of pain too. With pain and some guilt. I gotta leave my babies behind in that, know? Yeah. I had to leave my babies behind in that. And I know that they mean well, they wanna be there because of us. They wouldn't. So I'm not, I don't wanna demonize. uh, 'cause they're there. They spend their career. 'cause they love children too, and they wanna do the work too.

And they want to teach too. But that's why you need a certain level of cultural competence that [00:42:00] you must enter with or you know, your instruction is going to and thus the children struggle.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Um,

I think that, yeah, so many of us, it's hard to leave the children and at the same time we, we, like you said, it comes like that. People coming behind your back that you thought were in good relationship with Right and right relationship with you and lack the human development, like professional development.

Sure. But human development first and it's just not there. Um, and yeah, I appreciate you sharing that story.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I don't tell it often.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: on the podcast. I don't say it out often 'cause it's sensitive.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: sure.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: sensitive, it's [00:43:00] nuanced. Um, so I don't, say it. I don't tell that story lightly.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. And we can definitely, I can definitely feel right, the urgency. There's so much urgency. Um, and I'm just thinking about your students and the talent show and, you know, those students are adults now and hopefully they, some of them can come back and hear your story, um, and understand why you chose to transition.

And I think that's the hardest thing sometimes is the students see you there and then you're gone.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Or they come back to visit 'cause they're onto high school or middle school and you're no longer there.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: sometimes nobody to say, this is what really happened. This and so children can fill in the blank about why they think that we've transitioned on and, uh, and just never know.

Um, so thank you. So leaving that school, did you go on to another school together or did you leave this particular type of [00:44:00] education system and do something totally different?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: So interesting, story. Before leaving, I wanna say, hmm, maybe it was like a year and a half before leaving my principal learns of this program. Program is called Parent Core and they have professional development for educators and they have a parenting program for families. there's also a, a classroom, uh, curriculum for pre-K students, but I'm speaking primarily of the professional development and the parenting program. And she said, I want that program here. It's the evidence-based program is really great. And she said, and she says, I, I want you to go to the professional development and bring the program here, the parenting, um, program to our school. And she knew my history of working with struggling families, working in the shelters.

I started a food pantry in the school. She's like, this is, you gotta do this. This is gonna be you, Kai. [00:45:00] And I said, great. Go to the professional development absolutely blows me away. Absolutely blows me away. It's the best professional development that I have been a part of. And I have been teaching for 10 years because it did the underneath work. It asked, who are you? Because who you are is how you are. Who you are is how you teach. The closer you get to know who you are, it's gonna affect how you show up. That's what that professional development did for me. And so I went there and I brought it back to, um, my school. And we did the professional, we did the parenting program. I facilitated the parenting program at my school to, outstanding success. I had a full room every week. It's a fully manualized program. Um, but. It lands in love and it's evidence-based rooted in science. gonna say it lands in love. I'm gonna say it lands in love because I [00:46:00] land in love. And so I'm giving life to the words on the paper. Um, and the, the parents show up and we are having conversations about what it means to be a parent, about the values they have, about what's important, uh, about their culture, about the things that they want to, um, in their parenting, what things they want to do from when they were a kid. What do you remember?

You wanna actually do the same thing. So what things are different? What are some memories you have from your childhood that you don't like about your own parenting and how do you wanna be different? Um, and sharing the science of early childhood with parents. Uh, and it was packed. I mean, I used to call everybody every week You come in, Ms.

Johnson, we have fun. And we was in the evening time so parents could come after work. We served dinner.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Can I pause you for a second?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: That what you just said was very key. I call them every week,

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Call them every week.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: and I think people will hear something like this, write down, oh, parent core, whatever. [00:47:00] Um, and then miss that part right there, the calling every week. Yeah. You could pull out the, the, the, the crockpot or the donuts and the juice and then why they didn't show up.

We, we sent a flyer in the backpack. But you're saying I called them every week and.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Woo. You hit the nail on the head

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: family engagement is not a paper, not a cup of coffee. It is relationship. It is relationship.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: And in relationships, we call people, don't you? You call people you wanna see. Right, you the same, uh, characteristics that we show up in our regular relationships that are good, that work, we have to show up when we building relationships with families.

So I called them every week and I reminded them that I enjoyed you being there,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: we learned a lot and that I can't wait for you to come next week. And it was real because they came and we [00:48:00] actually have fun. We would be laughing and joking and doing the curriculum. but it was about their connection to the facilitator.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: yeah. Yeah. That's real. That's real. 'cause people are sending flyers home and it's crunched up in the bottom of the book bag because that's not relationship. That's not relationship.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. So continue. Tell us about that programming and yeah, its impact on you. It sounds like it was phenomenal for this, for the families, but you as well.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: It had an Im, it had an impact on me and it would be my exit. program would be my exit. Um, the program ran phenomenally at the school, so much so that the leader of the program, um, brought funders. They were looking for at this time, they trying to scale this program and they need the money to do it, and they needed to bring, um, a funder to [00:49:00] witness the program.

And they brought them to my program. Um, they talked to the families about the program and they talked to me about the program. Um, and they got a lot of funding, I wanna say millions of dollars in funding to grow the program.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: And, and that was my opportunity. I think I reached out to one of the managers of the program who had been coaching me. And I said, look, 'cause the training was so powerful. I was like, I can train, um, off in the summertime. What can I do in the summer?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: said, do you want a summer opportunity or do you want a new job? And I won't forget it. I said, I want a new job called it. That was a, that was over Easter vacation. She's like, come, come meet. Let's have, let's have coffee and let's talk. And that's what I did. And then I got offered a job on the spot. So I came back from Easter break knowing that June would be my, my last day. Yeah. That was my exit. That was my exit to do that program. I will say [00:50:00] this right now, 10 years later, I'm the director of that program. Yeah. I'm the director of that program. That's the role, um, that I play now. And that was, that was my exit.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you. We're going to, we're going to talk a little bit later about, like more about what you're doing now 'cause that's really important and I think for lots of reasons because people need to know about the programming, but they also need to know like you've been there 10 years, all the things that you've learned that about this and how it compares to your time in like a traditional K 12 space.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: since we're in this part of like the exit, let me ask you the question. Knowing that you saw, you know, diverse educators and your experience, like racialized experiences you talked about, what do you think, and being in the union, right, supporting union folks, what do you think that schools, [00:51:00] districts, and unions can do to retain black educators and higher education too, if you have that experience, like what, what are some of your ideas?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: yeah. Black educators need what all educators need. What good systems? Um. Can or need to supply a good pay? Teachers need money to live. Look, you can't live on your good intentions. You can't eat 'em, and you can't pay a mortgage on them. So educators need to be paid well, black or otherwise. Um, educators need competent.

Leaders who care. Uh, we need leaders who know what they are doing, who know how to lead and not bully, who know how to cultivate culture that not only make children wanna learn, that make adults wanna show up. We, we, we, we put a lot on teachers. We put a lot, their cups are dry and they're supposed to pour into children and families.

I say that's impossible. We need [00:52:00] leaders that can cultivate, um, environments that let teachers cups run it over because when they run, when they overflow, they overflow on kids. When that, when teachers overflow, they overflow on families. And right now, systems got teachers dry. they need effective professional development. I like what you said. You didn't, you didn't call it human development. They need professional development that is development specific and unique to educational spaces, and they need human development where they're seen as holistic and full individuals. People try to. themselves up, Dr. Lyons, and you think this is home me and this is work me and I'm gonna be this way at home.

As soon as I get off work, I turn into home. Me. And that can't be further from the truth. We are whole people and we need a support that feeds the wholeness of who we are. We cannot call people [00:53:00] try it. You trying to, uh, compartmentalize, but actually you can't hide from yourself everywhere you go, there you are.

So there's no like slicing and dicing. people need Educators need community that is rooted in trust and truth. And that's what I felt like I was missing. I thought I had community rooted in trust and truth, and in actuality I did not. I worked for New York City. I felt like the, uh, the other things I had a lot of, I never balked about my salary.

If I go way back, I remember when I was working at one of the small nonprofits as a case manager, and the, the minute I became a teacher, my salary doubled. So it wasn't a challenge for me in New York City. Um, I had professional development opportunities and I learned a lot. what was missing for me was community rooted in truth and trust.

I didn't have that, and I, and I needed that, that would have helped [00:54:00] me stay, that would have sustained me to stay. and, and those are the things I wish for Black educators. Those are the things I wish for all educators.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. And nothing, you know, you, you're, you're right on. Of course. You're right on. Um, yeah, so thinking about your time. Thinking about those who were able to support you, those who taught you, um, when you were in your own education experience, are there black educators, one or many that you would like to shout out on our show?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Hmm. Yes, of course there are. So the first person I wanna shout out, shout out. Now I could be, I, you know, 'cause I, my energy goes up and down. I get serious and I get like a little excited. I wanna shout out first and foremost, Dr. Melissa MuTu. my sister-in-law. is a teacher. Um. [00:55:00] She's the one who told me about New York City teaching Fellows.

She had gone through the program and she said to me, Kai, I think this is for you. Um, so shout out to Dr. Melissa MuTu. If it wasn't for her, I might not have, um, even taken a, a foray into education at all. So I'm grateful to her. there's a, a, young man that I know new to my community, um, and his name is Vance Lewis, and he is sharp and on point.

He taught a special education, um, in Philly. He's from the West coast, but now he is committed to building an uh, ecosystem that supports, um. Educators of color,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: charge and his mission now, and he's just somebody I can tap now as somebody has a, a lot of knowledge, I'm like, oh, I need help. I support me with this strategy of how I can pull this off. [00:56:00] Um, those are two ed, two black educators that stand in my mind doing, doing wonderful things. and one final shout out. I have to, I'd be remiss, I might get knocked upside my head if I don't say to my very first teacher, my mother.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Barbara, my very first teacher, she instilled in me the value of education, um, because I watched her as a young single mother with three kids, go back to school and, and, and, um, get both her ba and her master's degree in social work.

I was in middle school and my mother was in school going back. She's my first, my very first teacher. And so everything I say, everything I echo, whatever you, if anyone's listening and they say, Ooh, Kai, that sounds good. That's on point. I agree. because my mother taught me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Um, my mother taught me. She's my first [00:57:00] teacher.

So shout out to my mother and shout out to all the mothers who are living and surviving and teaching. Um, children first, you know, first

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So going back to that conversation of what are you doing now, right? So you've been at Parent Corps, am I getting that right?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: parent course called Parent Core. I've been at Parent Core for 10 years. Um, and so I have various roles from coming in at newly, um, as a parent corps educator and facilitating and coaching people to facilitate the program all over New York City. I'm in kind of the supervisor and the manager, associate director. And then, um, I've been the director for three years and my charge is scaling the program nationally. We did a lot of deep work in New York City and over the last three years working, um, to scale the program, the professional development, the parenting program in friend school. [00:58:00] it's powerful work. Again, I love it. I love it because I get to, I get to support educators, um, and get to help them grow what I believe I should have gotten, which is supporting family engagement. Here I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: In this, in this, um, teaching program, New York City Teaching Fellows, and I'm at a top university in New York City and there's no support working with families,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: building relationships with families.

No course on family engagement. Took course on dyslexia. I took course on teaching math concepts, right? Did not take a course on, um, family dynamics in the classroom or, uh, family engagement in the, the, in the early childhood classroom. Nothing, nothing on that. That's you're supposed to learn on your own and you get burned.

Learning. Learning the hard way.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Listen, can I really tell the truth after somebody's mother tells, or if your student's mother tells [00:59:00] you off because you didn't engage in a way that was empowering, that was healthy, but you didn't know.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: And I just think educators could use support with that. So that's the deep work and. That I'm doing now, and I love it. I will also say that that won't be the end for me either. That won't be the end for me either. My top value is faith. My, there's always something better. Always and, and on. All of the hard things are going to lead to something more. So I can't, uh, there's another saying, I'm talking to you is making me think of sayings like, God didn't bring you this fault.

I only bring you this fault.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah, that's right.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: more, there's more, there's more. For me right now, I'm rooted, I'm doing the work of parent core now, but I'm always looking on the horizon at what's coming next because I know that there's more for me. [01:00:00] Um, yeah, I don't know how, if, how many specifics I wanna go into about parent core, but we definitely have a website. We are parent corps.org. The program is powerful. I will have a conversation with anybody at any time about the work specific, um, to that program and just about what it means to be a black educator and survive in it. 'cause it's what I know well, and it's what I know best.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Yeah. In that same, in that same conversation of survival, you know, I'm thinking about thriving and you've been in this education work for over 20 years now, and so I have to ask. Yeah, I know.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: I'm only 22.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Listen, we not here to do the math, I'm just stating some facts, right? And so just thinking about your time as a new teacher, your time transitioning out your at parent core and you outside of that, you talked about being a mom, a stepmom, like all these pieces and all the movement [01:01:00] and the energy that you need and have to put into community.

What does it look like to put that love into yourself for you? What does it mean to be well?

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: Hmm. What a question. What does it mean to be Well, what it means to be well to me has only, became visible or more tangible as I've aged. Funny that I'm talking about age, because to me to be well to be free. Um, and to be free to me means to be self-determined. Um, I am. Well, I am my healthiest when I can determine for myself who and how I wanna be. I've only been able to even touch that in a minuscule way because, because I'm a little bit older,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: care [01:02:00] less about what other people think, how other people think I should wear my hair, how other people think I should dress. So I'm on my road to wellness. Wellness. Yeah, we, I could have gave you all the cliche answers. Drink your water, get good sleep. Eat healthy food and mind your business and lemme tell you something that's going, that's gonna take you a, that's gonna take you real far.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Amen.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: determine for yourself when you feel good, determining for yourself who you wanna be, how you wanna be, the job you wanna have or not have, like when you can really be, um, self-determined when you have the room, the space.

'cause sometimes I think people think that they are determining for themselves, but there's so many choices. If I draw circles that sort of like force us, um, to make choices. So when I'm, when I'm saying free, I mean like having the financial freedom to do what you want. [01:03:00] Um, so some of it's wrapped up in, um, money.

'cause some of it that's the truth. Like I don't, I wanna be at a place where I don't have to work unless I want to.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: get there yet. I didn't get there yet. So that's why I say I'm on my road to wellness because for me, being fully well means to be fully self-determined. And it takes courage. It takes courage to, uh, do what you want, how you want, because you know, there's a lot of societal pressures.

Listen, there's some pressures that's right in your family of people who think you should be doing certain things, wearing certain things existing in the world a certain way. And what I want for people, is to be free. I want that first for myself, but I want people to feel free. And if you feel free. Then you can be well. Um, so come on y'all, let's get free. And once you snatch a little bit of freedom for yourself, then it's your responsibility [01:04:00] to help someone else get free.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Mm-hmm.

kai-ama--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_131147: are not my words, but I will repeat that sentiment. And the older I get, the more I understand that. Yeah, get free. on.

And then we could be, well, I'm working on it. I'm, I'm working on it now. even this conversation, Dr. Lyons, the more I put it out there, it is a reflection. When I say self-determination and freedom, I'm working on getting free, even if to say the words outta my mouth, to hear it back to my own ears helps me to continue to work on my own freedom. And I hope it supports another educator who's looking to get freedom themselves.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_2_02-03-2026_111148: Kai, this has been a fantastic interview. Thank you so, so much for, [01:05:00] for coming on to the show. Clarissa, we owe you. Yeah. Um, all right folks. So if you wanna reach out to Kai Hamer, her information's gonna be in the show notes. Um, take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and we'll see you on the next episode.

All right, piece.