Redefining Education and Black Excellence with Asha von Liebtag

Redefining Education & Black Excellence with Asha von Liebtag

[00:00:00]

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Welcome back to another episode of the Exit Interview, a podcast for black educators with your host Meek, Dr. Asia Lyons. So happy, I feel like we're getting some prime premium guests here on the show. Of course. Um, and I'm finding people in all kinds of ways. And today we have Isha Von Leak talk and she's here to share her story all the way from New Jersey.

And folks, if you don't know, I'm in Denver and I've been meeting some wonderful folks from California, from Texas, from all over. And this is another great guest. So I'm so excited to have you on the show. Welcome to the show.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yes. Thank you for

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Thank you for having me. Yeah, thank you for being here. Um, so we already had a chance.

They [00:01:00] know how it goes on the, on the show. We already had a chance to chit chat. A couple weeks back, and so I got a chance to hear your story, but they haven't. So let's go ahead and get started. Start us off. How did you decide that education was for you?

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Oh, mm, I need a cup of tea, a sip of tea for this conversation. So

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Okay.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: it starts with my grandmother. My grandmother was that woman, um, who was robbed of her opportunity. I think she dropped out of high school, 17, got married. You know, it was a different generation um, marriage didn't go well, did not finish, had three kids, um, struggled, limited opportunities as a black woman in this country. Um, and literally, uh, was left with three kids by her husband. Um, and he left off with another woman my grandmother raised me. Um, due to my parents not being able to, one thing she stressed to me was education is key. [00:02:00] Strive for excellence. That's something that she just. Literally, she, she drived and, and, and she drilled into me. as I think about it, this woman, after doing all that, went back straight to her GED, straight to getting her, uh, associates, her bachelor's and went to get her master's all starting off in the age of 50.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: she's my shero, right? Because I've seen firsthand with just her experience and she was the first one in my family to actually go to college and graduate. And I feel as though she showed me. What education yields, what doors. It really opens. Here's a woman who was on Wells Fair and food stamps and struggling with kids, got her education and she owned her own home. She owned her own car. She went to all sorts of trips all around the world, you know, and she just, she had a certain style.

She reminded me [00:03:00] of the Supremes, you know, with

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Sure. Yes,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: And ooh, those wigs, I tell you.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: yes.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: And I just looked up to her, especially even more when I learned her story and how she pushed for that. So for me, becoming an educator was very personal. then there are also, you know, the things that I received from a student perspective in high school from my educators.

I think about, um, how they, uh, pushed me as I was going through personal family issues and struggles, and when I doubted myself and my own abilities, and, um, how they kind of ignited something within me, um, to really show me that I, I was worthy of, of pursuing excellence that I, uh, was capable of excelling.

That learning is a way of life,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: not just to get to the next grade. And I, I truly, I truly embody that to this day.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah, I love that. And I, you know, we were talking about [00:04:00] grandmothers before we got on the call, and a lot of times we have to. Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it. Like pull from that strength, like you just said, from our ancestors, from our grandparents to know their journey.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Um, to be inspired every day because there are times where it's what do we do next?

What do I do? How do I figure this out?

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Absolutely.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: to, to shout out the ancestors names, I'm gonna say Pauline Dyer, my grandmother's name,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: um, to say like, I need some help.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: And I love that. And so you went through high school, had these challenges. Where did you decide to teach? Uh, were you an educator in the teaching capacity?

Tell us more about part.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yes. Yes. Okay. So definitely knew that I wanted to be a high school teacher, and I was just like, no, I wanna give back to my neighborhood. I'm born and raised for anyone who knows, called Brick City or Newark, New Jersey.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: and, uh, [00:05:00] it's funny because, uh, you wanna give back to the community. You know, you're told that as you, as you climb, you look back to pull up with you. I knew that I wanted to educate. I knew I wanted to be that cheerleader, that teacher, that that motivator that everything that comes into the package of being a teacher, because, you know, you wear multiple hats. Um, and I went to college for it. I, I went for it and got my bachelor's with the extra year, got my master's, um, in education in English, teach secondary wind up, getting another master's, uh, to go and become principal.

Like I saw my livelihood in education, um, and especially in high school. Um, 'cause I, I knew that the older kids, um, was where I felt as though I can reach and really connect, um, the most.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah, I love that. And you know, thinking about high school. And the challenges and, and I think we talked a little [00:06:00] bit about like what it it means to be a high school teacher and making sure that students have something engaging to read in all these ways. Uh, tell us more about like how long you were teaching the schools that, that you were a part of.

Other things that you, um, outside of maybe your language arts, ELA, those pieces. We love the details.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: So, you know, it's so funny. Um, so I was gungho on, you know, starting my internship while I was in graduate school, starting my internship, and I'm just like, yes, where do you wanna go? I wanna go to Urban area, I'm gonna make change, I'm gonna connect, you know, and then I wound up getting a placement at, um, Ridge, um, in Ridge High School.

Now I know you're not in Jersey, so just, just, just picture a neighborhood that's not just wealthy, but you have kids riding in exotic cars. Uh, you could drive [00:07:00] around the neighborhood and it looks like the president of the United States might live in there. Like I'm talking very. Um, and you know, you could tell the teacher's parking lot where the Toyotas and Hondas are the

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: the Prius.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: teachers. You look at those exotic cars. Oh, no. Dear teachers over there. This is students dear. This is students.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Nice. I started my internship there, and of course at first I was very upset. Um, I met, uh, my, uh, mentor, uh, you know, the teacher who is supposed to overlook. And, and he was amazing. Uh, very bright, uh, love him to this day. Um, but I was upset 'cause it was just like, no, no, no, no, no. I need to give back to my kids.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I cannot say how that experience opened my eyes. Um, one because it made me realize that as black [00:08:00] educators, it's not. Our, our, our goal should not just be to give back to black students. That's very important, but it's very important that we are represented everywhere.

I cannot begin to tell you how that internship opened my eyes to so many students, especially of privileged backgrounds and wealthier areas. They, they tend to see blackness or people of color in general. Um. Custodial work, um, you know, serving food,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: know, maybe security. Um, it's not necessarily standing in front of them, teaching them content, subject based, uh, uh, material, uh, that would get them into college. So, so as I was standing in front of them, it was some very interesting experiences. Um, I was told even for the first time that that was their first time that they've ever been taught by a person of color or a black person, period. Um, and it made it aware for me, [00:09:00] uh, to me at least at that time, that, you know, it's not just, um, something that, um, I have to teach them.

It was a learning opportunity for me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I began to bust the own, uh, my own, uh, prejudices or, uh, probably wouldn't call it that, but, uh, thoughts and ideas that were very, um, insular, I guess you can say, right. And limited, um, on what I thought when I thought about people of a certain background, um, completely bust them up. Um, and, and they got to see me. I got to see them. We got to explore books. I, I whipped out Beloved,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Oh,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: new teacher comes flopping and bringing in Beloved. Now, of course I was, you know, gungho was like, woo, this is, we're gonna tackle this. Let's go. Uh,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: of course, would do something like that 'cause that book is dense. Um, and when I say dense, I mean you can spend years

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.[00:10:00]

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: the beauty, the brilliance, the ugh, don't let me get going on Beloved, but. was just an eye-opening experience because they were eager to learn and some of them were not. Right.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: you know, it was finding these creative ways to connect to their humanity, to, to step outside of blackness for a moment, even though it was a book by, um, a black woman who was focused on racism and all these others.

But to get them to see at its core, the brilliance and the beauty in its writing and its construction and all of these things. And it, it brings us all together, right on one page. And let's explore, uh, this, this genre and explore this book and explore this writing, and then be able to talk about the myriad of things that are going on, the relationships, the racism, the historical context, and all those things. And it was, we made it comfortable

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: place to do it. [00:11:00] That my dear. Is where I feel like is a struggle in a lot of, uh, classroom settings, um, across this country

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: and teachers being able to tackle and, and to discuss a variety of different text that that really explores humanity at its core and not be afraid to do so.

Especially in an English class where you're really dissecting literacy and you're exploring how someone can with their mere words, reach and pull and, and, and get at the core of what it means to be human, to make you feel with each word that you digest. Right? That is magic. And that's what we bring out.

And we, we teach in an English classroom, right? Like if you do it right, you'll reach any kid. Any kid. And, and that, that's what I loved about being an educator. That's what kept me wanting more.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: [00:12:00] Nah, folks in the, I don't know if y'all can tell, but my girl is leaned all the way up on this laptop. She is giving a business in this. I'm staring in her into her soul right now and she's staring into my soul. Let's just be, um, so I just wanted to put that out there, one and two. You make a beautiful point that I've said so many times about black educators are not just for black students.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: I know you and I have talked about this when we met a while back, that there's this conversation of, well, that wouldn't have happened to you if you were teaching at blah. Or black teachers should be in front of black students, but black teachers, they're good for everybody. Right? And a lot of us, like you said, I was placed in this place and I made the best of it, and I showed up how I showed up.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: And that happens for so many of us. I've said this before on the ep, on the podcast episode, when I moved from Detroit to Aurora, which is a [00:13:00] city next to Denver,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: I was just applying for every district that that would hire, right. Um, and I ended up in a predominantly white at the time school district

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: the job and did not receive any more phone calls from any other district.

And I applied for at least five or six districts. And so you, you show up, you bring the books, you bring the wisdom, you bring the ancestors, you do the thing that you do, and you, you show your excellence and whatever that means, right? And, and success. So I'm glad that you said that. And I really want people to, like you're saying, like kind of break away from that box thinking

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: that we should only be teaching kids of color or black edu black students.

When I was ready to leave out of the district being pushed out, um, experiencing racism, people were like, oh, well, you should go over to the, that school over there, because they're, they're diverse. Like, so you won't[00:14:00]

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: you won't experience racism, so just go over there and hang out over there with the rest of the black teachers, and that's such a toxic way of thinking about things, but,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: way and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: that was, that was my internship. I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: internship and then I taught two years in my hometown in Newark at a charter school. And, you know, it was middle school and it was predominantly black and Latino, like, uh, a school district.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: of the students were there, even though the majority of the teachers were white.

Um, and I'll say this, is that, um. Some of the black teachers that I even had experiences with there. That's why I love that you said bring your excellence as opposed to you said, bring your blackness. Right, because I, I, I, I still to this day, I, I questioned what that really means when we put that into a box.

Like you, you can't put that term into a box,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah. Yes.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: because it exists everywhere. You [00:15:00] could pick us up and drop us off and raise us in different areas. We're born in different areas and there's, there's different stories, collective pieces that belongs to blackness, but excellence, that's different too.

It's interesting to see what, how we individually bring our excellence as far as that goes. This idea of, of, of blackness. Um, and, and, and teaching with people who look like you or, or other teachers who look like you. I, I did not have the best experiences sometimes. Um. One, I, I did not like, um, within this specific charter school, um, how a lot of the boy populations, I'll say the male students, um, those numbers were dwindling.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: they were constantly getting into trouble. They didn't sit with their hands folded or, you know, their buckles weren't aligned, or they didn't, uh, you know, do certain things and they had to act a certain type of way. And it was like, [00:16:00] okay, is this school considering the culture in the mix? And why is it so much on, you know, how you have to behave and, you know, fold your hands and sit up Right.

And look straight? I mean, there were certain things in ideologies that I wasn't on par with. Like, I, I didn't see eye eye. then there were certain teachers where, um, some of them were a bit toxic in their thinking too. Um, you know, some teachers I've come across in my profession that are, that look like me, they thought just as badly as some of the other teachers that did not, where they would, um, you know, see the areas that these kids are coming from and automatically approached them a certain type of way in a classroom

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: they did not think that they were capable enough, or they would not push them far enough, or they would say, they're from here, so we need to start here.

They're not capable of doing such and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: it's just like, no, my dear, if you are an effective teacher, you would know that you have to do the heavy lifting. [00:17:00] Why don't you scaffold that? Why don't you model it? Why don't you chunk it and find different techniques and strategies to reach these kids so that you can continue to pull them up and work, and so on and so forth.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: it, you know, I cannot, I, I cannot say that I don't believe that, um. You know, we should be limited to where we go. I know that our kids, especially in predominantly black and Latino areas, those happen to be the schools, um, that, that needs good teachers. You know, they need, um, people who can see them and relate to them.

They need, um, to be in a, in a, an environment where people believe in them, they understand them, they can

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: them on a cultural level, on a personal level like that, I do not negate, I do not go against that. But at the same time, um, I also feel as though if we are to only. black [00:18:00] people or brown people, whoever in front of those students, when those students are supposed to graduate and go out into the world and they experience people who are not like them, who look down on them, who do not, they need a variety of experiences.

They need a variety of good teachers.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: of different styles to come into their classroom. They need to touch on a variety of different topics to have a holistic understanding of their world, of themselves, and so they can gain an understanding of where they see themselves in it. And that's for them to decide,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I think we teach our kids how to think. We teach them the, the, you know, how to get to the why or to be able to ask the why. We give them the, we don't tell them what to think, right? So, so, you know. I, I think that we need to start thinking as opposed to a us and a them, we need to start framing this [00:19:00] conversation to be a, how we collectively, as a human race start to approach these kids who are in need and find a way to uplift us all

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: close this gap truly, and, and, and really get at these kids to, to, to understand, you know, how, how, how you can see yourself in the world without it being black and white all the time, or us versus them,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: this is your job and that's their job.

Like I cannot, I cannot begin to tell you how sometimes. It's limiting. You know, it's, it, it limits perspective sometimes because I don't see a lot of black people in that place right there. That's not what I immediately think of. I think of where I see the majority of the black people. Where are they? Oh, they're this, they in this profession.

They're in this profession. Okay, so I guess I'll go there. No, let's break those walls down. Let's slam 'em. Let's start thinking beyond the ceiling. Let's go to the stars, baby. I'm there with you. I need those [00:20:00] teachers. Where the hell are they? And they don't have to look like me. I need you to love, I need you to care.

I need you to give a damn. I need you to see humanity when you get in that classroom. And they all don't do that. I don't care. Black, white, brown, whatever. They don't all have that. It factor. You need that. It factor because these kids are trained. They see through you.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah. That's a word y'all. That's a whole sermon. Y'all

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Ugh.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: and sit back and drink your tea. Go

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: tanking tea. I'm taking tea. I,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: take it.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I can't, I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: No. And, and, and you're not wrong. So you, everything you said was exactly right. I, and I hope that the folks were listening agree with this. And you were teaching at this charter school for two years. Did you, like, what made you decide it was time to go to somewhere else?

What was that journey like in that piece? We wanna know that, because from us listening to your story, [00:21:00] obviously even now, no longer in the traditional teaching sphere, you're still extremely passionate about educating children of color, educating white children as well, being in community, showing up in space.

So what was, what was the next step after you, um, left that charter school?

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: So I will say this, charter schools are definitely a place, you know, I, I feel like, um, there, there needs to be a variety of options out there for people, period.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I feel like charter schools bring it as far as the structures that they have in place, the education, like, you know, tracking the reading skills, the math skills, like looking at testing, so on and so forth.

But there were some things, uh, that did not sit well with me at the charter school. Um, for those who work in a charter school, and I'm sure some of them love it. It sets up a beautiful community in many cases. I know this charter school that I was at was very good at doing restorative practices, or at least they were really working on it before.

Even like public schools now are starting to buy [00:22:00] into them. They did an excellent job in creating those morning circles and making people feel a part of the community.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: But at the same time, I had to leave the environment because that you, you give, your time. The time commitment you give a lot of yourself to a charter school.

I mean, the hours sometimes are long. Um, sometimes you don't really agree. Like me with some of the systems that are in place and the structures that are in place, um, to, to, and, and, and quite frankly, I, I honestly believe that some of those structures, if you pick it up and you put it into a wealthy area and you try to have those students do what they're able to do with the kids in a urban area, you will have a lot of parents pushing

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Um,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: mm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: time. time. But regardless of that, like I said, they have their places. I, I just could not, um, keep up. I can't begin to tell you how many relationships, um, that I saw break apart [00:23:00] or marriages that dissolved, um, because you, time commitment is through the roof. Um, I was coming in on Saturdays, was getting to the point where Sunday night came around and it was just like, you know, I started getting emotional where it's just like I can't,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: can't keep up with this. This is, is too much, too much. And so I transitioned, um, I got an opportunity and I, I took that mindset and I went back and I started teaching. Um, I wanted to teach in my home school, um, but uh, they didn't have any openings. Um, and it was a magnet school in Newark. Um, but I wind up seeing an opening, uh, the principal wind up reaching back out to me, um, or vice principal I should say. And, uh, said he had an opening, um, at this, uh, wealthy, uh, district, um, in Summit as well. It's another, uh, school that was in the top 20%, uh, 20 in New Jersey, I would say the top 20. and I went, interviewed and got the job and, uh, was, I taught there for almost 10 years, before I, [00:24:00] um, exited the classroom.

Uh, not education.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: So do you find, did you find in those 10 years that you were at this wealthier school, this like tug with your spirit about leaving the charter school and that particular community? Or did you hear people or at people ask you like, why didn't you stay? What was that conversation like in your mental or with other people?

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I'm gonna tell you the truth. The only tug that I felt is with the students, the students will come up to me. The students that were so excited to have me as a teacher. next year? No, no, no, no, no. Like Miss at the time

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Bailey. Ms.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I wanted you to teach. I wanted to teach, and of course I made connections with those kids.

You see 'em in the hallway, you joke around with them in the morning, you after school, like you taught the brother or the sister, whatever when you connect, you connect and you know, you can make a difference there. That, that was the only pushback. But the system of the school, that, that literally the way it was institutionalized, [00:25:00] um, I, I, I couldn't get with that structure that didn't sit right with my soul.

So I was very happy with the transition. In addition to that, the transition that I made, it was a wealthier district, but it was near, um. Urban areas. Um, so you had, uh, populations of students, whether they were like, uh, the Latino populations where, you know, I don't know if you know, but in some wealthier districts you have some families that come over.

Some of them are undocumented, some of them are not. They might all live in one apartment. They might live in a room and switch it out. They try their best to make sure that their kids have a good school to go to while they might literally work from dawn to dusk. Right. Like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: some of those in wealthy areas. And then you had, in this particular area, there was a section eight, um, uh, that was offered. So you had some people who were able to transition from urban areas or of lower, um, incomes and live within the [00:26:00] communities as well. So I had the privilege of not only, um, serving kids who were wealthier, but I had. Some students who of course fell within that, you know, impoverished bracket as well, or the lower income bracket as well.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Sure,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: and I was able to, to reach all of them. You know, I felt good that I was that person that was there that they felt they could connect to. 'cause there were weren't many black people, um, at the time when I was hired within a, the whole school.

And I would say maybe if I can probably count it on one hand. Um, and a few of them, like one was a teacher, the other one was guidance counselor. You, you know, it's,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: sure. Yeah. Yeah. So 10 years of teaching at that school, and then you said, and then I was done teaching, but not necessarily leaving education. So what was after that?

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: So we know that lovely period of the pandemic. Uh,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: uh, everybody's trying to still get that out of their vocabulary and trying to like men in black [00:27:00] flash themselves

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah, for real.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Don't wanna remember that period. Um, that's when I decided to exit. I was on my second child. Um, and I know the teachers out there that you have a baby and then it's hard 'cause you think to yourself, I'm leaving my child with another person so that I could go and I could teach somebody else's kids.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I have to go out or feel right. Um, but during the pandemic, during my second birth is when I decided, no, I'm going to stay home. Um, and that's when I started Lit, deliberate, um, started educational consulting, started doing academic coaching, um, and curriculum development, uh, for a private educational institute.

Started to work part-time, uh, for Rutgers University with either coaching, um, English, uh, teachers so they can get their credentials, um, or mentoring them throughout their first year. Um, and I've been having a lot of fun, um, and kind of like working from home, raising my kids, um, and still being able to partake work [00:28:00] with college students and high school students and teachers, um, all at the same time during my own schedule. Uh,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah, and we'll get into that for sure. 'cause we wanna know more details. I feel like we have so many folks who go into consulting.

You decided to go into consulting and start your own business. Tell me before you, um, you left, was that something that you were thinking about doing before you left teaching, or that was something where you, you quit and then you started planning out this consulting.

How did that work for you?

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Uh, that's an excellent question. Um, honestly, I'm gonna tell you, uh, I, I really saw myself as, as, um, I, I love the aspects of teaching. Um, the main aspect was, uh, reaching students and lesson planning. I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: love, love, love, love. Coming up with new units, going into the books in the literary canon, and finding ways to make them relevant

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: with students. Um, the things that I hated, absolutely [00:29:00] hated and dreaded every day. So you know that beautiful bag that you have, that lovely teacher's bag? Yeah. That used to carry the same papers to and fro. And I would tell myself every day, have conversations to the papers with myself in my head, you gonna get graded today?

Do you understand me? And the

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Hold.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: ma'am. And I would say, okay, we gonna have this 10. Okay. 10.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Oh my God.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: up and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Aisha, stop talking. Stop talking. I just wanna pause. 'cause every teacher on this listening to this knows exactly what you mean. Language arts folks had it worse. I don't know how y'all did it, but that exact same thing, like, I'm gonna do five tonight. I'm gonna just get through one class. I remember when I had the realization that I was never going to stop grading.

That I was going to never have an empty basket that wasn't filled the next day. And when I realized that, [00:30:00] I just stopped trying to hurry up and grade

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: what was the point? I got it done. The kids were never looking for it. But the, I just had to stop you on that because I, people, when I was teaching, um, at CU Denver during grad, my grad school program,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: I was like, let me just see if I wanna teach again.

Maybe. Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: it's not the same school district, it's, these are adults. When it came to that grading and we talking about full on five, 10 page, I'm like, oh my God, I hate grading with all of my heart, with my whole chest, my whole body. I hate grading. I don't know. I know one or two people who I've talked to who say they love grading papers.

I don't know how they did it, but I just had to stop you on that because.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: You know it's true.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: I know exactly. You like fi. I just do five tonight. I'll just get, if I do five every day for five days, I'll be d Never happened.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: [00:31:00] Never happens, just five, just seems so, you know, it's great actionable step.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: That never happened. I cut. I'm sorry to cut you off, but I had to say like,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: You know, it,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: but go ahead. Go ahead.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: it, you know it. That, that got on my, and, and I was in a school district where the parents were very active and, and luckily I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Uh,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: known for being that teacher.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: horn, but I, I love what I did. I brought it to every class. My kids would tell you the same thing, right? But then you'll have those parents, you know, uh, in addition to the, the. Pile of papers following you everywhere, like a puppy. Um, you had the parents sending, you know, emails every once in a while or you know, of

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: meetings that you would have.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: you know, and then you'll have the, it was, it was all the administrative, um, aspects, those things that the sgo, I don't know, in your state, if you had SGO where you had to track your own growth and you had to do percentages and set a, [00:32:00] a goal for the year and then

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Oh yeah. Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: all, you know, it, it, it is like every year they were just adding things that need to be tracked and on your, on your, your, your desk for you to do and complete.

And in addition to checking emails, in addition to updating the website, in addition to making sure, and I was one of those teachers, my husband would always yell at me like, you're tired of grading papers and stop assigning papers. Then type teacher, will I be,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah. Like you're a language arts teacher that doesn't assign papers.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: So, you know, it it, it was just getting to the point where it was just like, man, like I had to look at that balance. Like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: do I love standing in front of my babies every day and bringing it versus how much do I hate all these things that keep piling up of stuff to do that I personally don't really feel like matters.

You know, like send that stuff, uh, of the, the [00:33:00] faculty meeting. Send that, that stuff in an email. Come on.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: we gotta sit there for an hour for you to tell me what you already sent out. You, you tell, you know, it, it, it was like, started the redundancies. Like, you know, there, there has to be a better way.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: but that, that is what started having me go, Hmm. I think I wanna kind of venture and see some of the other things that I can do, but that will keep me. Loving what I do. Like that, that is still the focus of what I do in teaching and reaching and connecting to students,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: and, and creating. And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: that's where I'm now.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: So. Knowing that you, me, everybody on listening to this podcast who's an educator or wasn't an educator, hates reading papers. What do you think, what do you think that schools, districts, unions can do to keep black educators [00:34:00] in the classrooms, in the counseling offices as administrators, as family liaisons?

What do you think would be helpful for them to know based on your experience?

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Uh, love that that is a huge systemic. Question. My girlfriends and I were just talking the other day, they're transitioning into, um, the ed sec, uh, tech sector, right? They're looking at educational technology. They truly believe by 2050 that education is definitely gonna be like, AI is gonna play a huge role. Uh, a lot of programs are gonna be offered online and so on and so forth. So they're doing big investments in that field. Part of me hears that, and I cringe,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: lie, because I, it's like, okay, there's nothing like standing in front of the people that you teach and reaching that kid and feeling that kid's energy and, and connecting and on a whim, like diving into the teachable moment.

Like, you

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: [00:35:00] Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: kid, pulling that kid to the side when you're seeing it having an off day and turning it around, like it's those moments that I really think takes the teachers that are good to, to being a teacher that's on the next level, right? but at the same time, I feel as though. you, you need to have structures in place that set it up teachers to feel heard, feel like the work that they do. Um, I, I wanna say more than matters. 'cause I feel like since Black Lives Matter came out, that word matter is now used everywhere. It's more than matter. It needs to be an integral part Right.

Of the very decision making itself. Like you need to listen to what teachers are truly struggling with. Now, I know I kid around and I started talking about those pile of papers. not gonna lie. Collecting data, analyzing that data and looking at how you need to shift your instruction in order to reach [00:36:00] those kids so that they learn the material.

That's important, right?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: that's important, but

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: need to do it right.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah, for sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: same time. administrators really need to sit down and have some real heart to heart conversations with the teachers in their school. They need to think about what type of culture, holistic culture that they're trying to create, not just for the kids.

'cause sometimes we become so student oriented that we pour ourselves into the students and we don't necessarily listen to those who serve them. Right. What type of cultural environment are you trying to set up with your teachers? What do they really need to feel like they're not scrambling and struggling

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: out there in the middle of the ocean trying to survive and, and when you think about some of these schools, you wonder if they're structured in a way to realistically and holistically be [00:37:00] able to support their teachers with mental health. When it comes to, you know, I think about a whole lot of new teachers. We know that ugly percentage. They come in and in the first two to three years or that first year, they're gone.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're considering a master teacher five years now. I just heard that somewhere. I'm thinking, no way was I master anything in five years.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: No, no.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Gladwell came out with outliers and he said, nor to master anything you need at least 10,000 hours.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: to about 10 years before you feel like you master something. I, I feel as though it's really, really important for them to, to set up that culture and, and quite frankly, if we dive a little deeper into setting up that culture, we need to have some ugly conversations. We need to have the teachers like really, we, we talk about, we talk about restorative practices and having teachers do that within the classrooms, and yet those same [00:38:00] teachers feel uncomfortable. Talking to other teachers who are literally in their department or in the school.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Talk more about that. Talk more about that.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: come on

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: more about that.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I've

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Ooh,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: for it. Go with it my love. You

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: listen,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: You know what I'm talking about?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: don't, don't, don't have me up here pro prophesying it, but that, that is the truth. We will teach restorative justice practices to folks. Expect them to do that with their students. Just I'm repeating what you just said, and they won't even look at you in the eye in the hallway.

They'll walk right by you.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: walk right by. You don't see them outside of school. They might pass by you completely.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: talk to people who may look like you,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: yeah. No, that part, I'm so glad that you said that. Uh, I just wanted to pause on that because that is a hundred percent true. The expectations that we have on our students, we do not have on ourselves. Yeah. Well continue. Continue.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: wonder why systems like [00:39:00] fall apart and, and why they're like, had this is, this is one of the blows, the, the, the, the blows to the nail, um, in that coffin. Um, for me being in a classroom, at least within this particular school, I had a teacher. I, I've taught board members like kids, right?

And they send me glowing. Like I, I, I hate to say that, but I was that teacher.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: that the custodian, the janitors, the secretaries. Like I was there with the forensics kids. Okay?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: always at school, like with the kids in my classroom. And, and I'm not gonna lie, I loved it. I loved it.

It was like my second home when I got to the point when I had my kid, was I think my first kid. And I was struggling with, um, balancing new mom hood. And getting things together with the grade book and keeping up with the grading and keeping up and entering into the system. The way that the system my school had set up is that you should at [00:40:00] least have one grade entered into your grade book per week. I was at the point where it was like weeks went by and I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: in. And I knew it and I would have conversations with my students, like, you know, give them collective feedback back, talk about things, work through things, model it. They, I got you guys, don't you worry about that. I'm gonna be a little bit easy on a grade in this time because I know it's taking, you know, conversations. I had one of the teachers in a science department go my head, speak to the vice principal and complain about my grade book one. It felt like a complete slap to my face.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: it's like, I, I know you. And then when I went to that vice principal and I said, whoa, whoa, whoa. It was a, it was a, it was a, it was a teacher, you know. I, yeah, she just didn't wanna come to you because, you know, you could be a little, she, she, you know, you, you are a little intimidating. Literally, she

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: struggles saying that. And, you know, she could be a little intimidating and, and, you know, but ace, you have a way of saying something in [00:41:00] the auditorium full of people, and you'll be the one, the one say, you know, the thing that everyone's thinking and you know,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: mm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: at first, which to a certain extent is true, right?

I have no problem voice in my opinion, but a part of me was also like, okay, here comes angry black woman, so you couldn't come to me because I'm intimidating. Like, what is

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: about me? Like I, I, I've sat in a lunchroom with you on how many occasions we speak on a, you know, like I'm a, I'm a personable, you know, and approachable, um, uh, teacher, you know, and you, you felt, you couldn't, you went over my head.

That was a slap. tell you how angry I felt.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I'm pouring myself on these kids. I'm pouring myself. I'm already crying. No, they didn't know that. You, you, when you are going through this as a mother and you're transitioning and you leave your child with someone else,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: struggle. And I'm cry crying coming in 'cause she's [00:42:00] sick today and I can't even hold her.

Or she's, you know, and you're gonna do that. Ooh.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: teacher later on apologized and whatever. But it was things like that, that's just like, where's the humanity?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Where's the community? Where's the connection? Where's the, why couldn't you come to me? Why is the school setting and culture is not set up that way?

Where you would think that would be your first, where's the loyalty? Right. It, it almost felt like in my district, like the administrators had no real connections with the people who are on the ground making the district what it is.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: And, and that. That I feel like is where that, that, that magical thread that you could pull to just make everything just like unravel

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: place. Yeah,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: That is it

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: where, where, where do you bring, where do you bring it together? How do you do so authentically? And there's no magic [00:43:00] answer to that

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: school should breathe a new and a, a, a different unique culture based on the people who are there and the vision the leader has. Right. and I, I just feel like sometimes the leaders don't really create a vision that includes the teachers. It's so the students, we're gonna have it set up where the students are gonna graduate and they'll, they'll leave with two degrees that they can apply to the, to the university or, yeah. My kids are gonna, they're gonna have, but what about the teachers? What's your vision?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: for creating their voices, for making them feel heard, for making them feel involved for, for setting it up where they wanna come back.

They want, they feel like this is a second home. They feel like you've got their back. Right? Like, how do you do that? How do you do that?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: That,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: you, sorry, Lev, go ahead.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: no, no. I, the thing that I've real come to realize is [00:44:00] leaning into what you're saying is. They, we have no schools, administrators have no control over adults.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: And in schools, people come and go and come and go and come and go and come and go. So we do these DEI trainings, we do this training, that training, those folks leave the next year and they take that with them.

And there's no way that we can, in my mind, create the type of environment that is conducive for, for what black educators, educators of color need, and perhaps white educators too, in a type of environment that is so fluid in that way where people on top of that just don't give a shit.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: I'm here, I'm teaching my students.

And I don't see that was, I don't see that as harmful that I looked at your, your grade book. I don't see it as a problem. Right? And how dare you be upset about that? And then I'm gonna go back and apologize, but the harm was already done and over and over and over again. Um. But [00:45:00] yeah, to be seen in education.

You are not the first person, you are the 46, how many episodes this is who always say, see us as human. See us. Like you see everyone else who has a baby at schools. When I was teaching, there were, I shit you not, there had to been, I'm not making this number up. Maybe eight of us pregnant at the same time.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Mm. Same

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: We all had our babies at the same time.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yep. No,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: not a phenomenon,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: no.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: But it's like we as black women cannot be human. We cannot have a baby and, and struggles because we can't keep up with breastfeeding or staying up at night or colds or diaper rash and grading papers. We have to keep going on and on and on

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: so toxic.

Um, yeah. So

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: What

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: I.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: it make you wonder what, what's like, you look at these systems that are in place for students,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: [00:46:00] Yeah,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: it is a structure that's, it is a well lubricated machine that

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: For,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: kids in.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: for white children. And if we as black children and brown children benefit from that, it wasn't meant but good for you, like it's a bonus. But the net that is thrown out to, to support white ed student success, sometimes a few of us get caught up in the net and find our way in GT classes or find our way to a really high quality counselor, but so many of us don't because we know the system is not created for us.

Right. We just know that, um, black schools with black administrators or otherwise, uh, and we can talk about the access gap and all these other things, but what you're, I, I'm cut you off to say this, but Yeah. You would think that the same way that we think so critically about the success of some students.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: We would do the same thing for educators, but it does not work like that as we can see.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: [00:47:00] Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Right. Or we would still be teaching.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Right. Um, yeah, we can go, we can go full on to this, into a whole different episode. Maybe we'll dig into this later. But I'm gonna pause this for a little break and then we're gonna come back.

But yeah, let's keep, that's, that's something to think about. So. Alright, folks will be back after a moment.

Um, and we are gonna get into the second part, my favorite part of the, uh, the episodes and talking about really like.

Present, like what does it mean or what's happening now, and the who and the why and the how. And I'll start off with the first question we ask in this part, particular part of the episode, and which is, are there black educators or at least one black educator in your K 12 or higher ed experience, or that you know now that you would like to shout out?

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Oh, absolutely. Shout out to Jonathan Alston. That was my high school [00:48:00] English teacher. One of the smartest guys I know, man. He was, uh, the debate coach. Um, such an analytical thinker. Um, in fact, I wanted to, I, I wanted to be like him. And the way that he thinks and the way that he articulates himself and the way that he can push you, um, to a new view, right?

Into a new perspective. Using a new, and applying a new, an analytical lens, right? To, to gain a, a better understanding. Um, a love. It was brilliant. and he was also there for me, uh, while I was going through my moments in, in high school, right? I could just go in his room and he would just sit there in the same way.

He'll decode and analyze and synthesize materials in a book. He would apply it to my life. And I, I think he was one of the ones that taught me the real reason why I wanted to be an English teacher. It wasn't because, um, I'm one of those, uh, well-read Avid readers, even though I, I do enjoy [00:49:00] myself. Good book.

Which by the way, if you were an English teacher, you don't read until you out of actually not an English teacher anymore. You'll have no time.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Right, right.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: but. I, I will say that he made me realize the true reason why, um, literate, uh, literate matters, right? Like, I, I feel like every English class is the, the, the introduction, um, as well as, um, helping students master analytical, critical thinking skills, right?

Where they can really apply it. So shout out to Jonathan Austin.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: I love that. Jonathan Austin. Okay. Um, so you alluded to this a little bit before. With this level of curriculum writing and being, um, employed in some capacity at Rutgers,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: are you doing now? Tell us about where out of the classroom is. Traditional sense.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yeah.[00:50:00]

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: What are we doing this, um, in our day to day consulting?

Tell us all the things,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: you know what?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: child rearing.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: That is. So I had a third child. I don't know what's wrong with me, um, in this climate,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Bless, bless you. Bless you.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: bless your heart. I love him. He is four months old. And, know, this stage of my life I would describe as beauty. Um, I feel like, um, sometimes I feel like a cat. Now there's some, some logic that comes to that because, um, know, they say cat cats have nine lives, which is not, you know, literal.

But, um, it's almost like I'm on my sixth one or fifth one, you know, um, as I think about the different periods of my life, um, whether trauma or whatever else. Um, and when you enter the phase comfort, um, of what you dreamt of when you were that pool, that PO kid

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: area, you know, with, uh, parents [00:51:00] that, you know, uh, were, uh, under the influence and so on and so forth. Um. It's almost like a dream realized, um, where I can work from home, uh, set my own hours, raise my own kids, um, and, uh, it's probably a little tough. I, I have to sometimes realize, all right, age dial back the teacher, bring out a little bit more to mama, you

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah. Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: because, uh, a, I'm a, I'm a stickler when it comes to my babies, uh, learning how to read three letter words by the time they're three. Um, and I feel as though, um, it's, it's something beautiful of being, uh, of partaking, um, and, and being present in my life. You know? Um, I get to choose things that I can do right now that I personally find fulfilling or edifying, know? Um, I feel like everybody can say they're an educational consultant right now, um, in different way ways, and I have to put this out there. You find that thing that you enjoy doing. That aspect [00:52:00] of, of whatever it is that you brought into your classroom that, that you, you felt, um, fulfilled by that, that, um, kind of kept that fire burning. Um, find a way to, to, um, to package that, um, and, and see if, how it can be sustainable in your life. Right.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I truly believe that in transferable skills, My husband for a living, um, is literally, he works at Rutgers as well. Um, he classes on, uh, management. So he helps resumes and, you know, people at the midpoint in their lives where they're trying to transition out of their career into a new one. And he always talks about transferable skills.

And I don't think people realize as teachers how many transferable skills that you have. Right? It's [00:53:00] astounding. when I sat and I thought about the things that I love doing in the classroom the most, the, the curriculum development, the bringing it, the, the connections with the students, um, that's where I realized, okay, you know what?

I'm gonna capitalize on this here. I'm gonna continue to work with the teachers because it means something to me when I'm able to work with a teacher and I leave them feeling though, they, they, they can actually create lesson plans that engages students while also augmenting their, uh, critical thinking skills. Um, I love that. I, I love that. It, it, it's a part of, uh, what makes my day feel, um, like it has meaning right and purpose other than my kids. I will say this, um. I am also working on a book right now. Um, and that's the other thing I was gonna say. Um, one of the things that I feel passionate about that you probably heard a little bit on this podcast, um, is I [00:54:00] love the idea of students understanding the truth behind what happens in a classroom.

I do not believe if you are that teacher that thinks that what you're teaching should remain in those confined walls and, and result in a letter, and then that letter gets entered into a system, and as it, you're not, you gotta rethink things. And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: get it. There's, there's so much going on and there's, you know, everybody wants pulling at you and want this and you gotta show that you're teaching the kids and data and all that stuff.

But no, I'm talking when you get to the nitty gritty of why you really entered the profession in first place, other than money, which you probably ain't giving that much of.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: The right.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: To me, why I brought it is that I said, you are gonna become my future when you leave this school and when I'm an adult, when I'm an old woman, I'm gonna rely on your intelligence, on your decisions, what, who you vote for, what decisions you make, um, [00:55:00] in life.

How, how, how, what, what jobs you take on, what things you invent, all these things, right? If I do not teach you how to think critically, if I don't give you the tools and the strategies necessary you could carry with you for a whole lifetime, shot myself in the foot.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Once again, not teaching 'em what to think, but how to think. And that's what I said to myself, babe, is that's your passion. Find a way to write about it. Put it in a book. That's what, that's the bigger goal for me. Even though I'm working this and doing these things I enjoy doing on the side and working this part-time and scheduling this on my own time and so on and so forth. I'm sitting here and I'm, my goal, my big dream is to finish this book so that I can go around to different classrooms and different auditoriums and different places and I could reach those kids and I could teach them, but through real life examples, just I would with a book, but [00:56:00] apply it to my life.

'cause Lord knows I went through everything and show them the literary skills that actually can be applied in real life,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: to book, in real life, right? And see how it can make you into a better person, almost in a sense, like some type of motivational self-help, but also classroom all meshed

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Sure.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Um, you know what I mean? That's my personal journey. Um, I would implore you to think about. What it is that you have within you that you feel like you need to impart on a world, right? To bring them to the next level as well.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: I love that. Yeah. And you've said a couple different things. The consulting, the book writing, the supporting students, and, and I love this idea. We can do all these things. All these things can be true. And it's, you learn, of course, you learn some new skills along the way. What does it mean to utilize what you already [00:57:00] know

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: and utilize it with confidence?

I think that's the piece that I found that. So many of us get brainwashed into thinking like, this is it for me. This is all I can do. I don't have the capacity to learn a new thing or to go out and do this thing. But until we're in the grave right, we can learn, we can pivot, we can figure things out.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: true.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

Um,

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: that, that imposter syndrome come in and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: a hundred percent.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: up and down, you know what I mean? We

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: shut that down

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: And that, you know, a lot of that conversation, you know, is from other teachers, other educators that were in spaces, other counselors and admin who say, well, I, I just got two more years, or are you sure you wanna do that? And so that imposter syndrome is placed upon us not just from childhood or from our partner or community.

It can be definitely in the schools that wanna keep us under them in these ways, even if it's harmful for us. And, and they know that

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: [00:58:00] Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Last question.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Yes. Love.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: What's been bringing you joy these days?

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: Ooh man. Oh man. Oh man. What's been bringing me joy? I gotta go personal for this one. Um, you know, I had to look within. I started off before, um, we, we had this, uh, started the podcast. I was telling you a little bit about grandma's room,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: tell y'all, uh, I have a room in my house where I have my grandma on my wall. Told you a little bit about her earlier, and she's in this, uh, kind of supreme look going on. She got her, you know, in her younger days where I'm sure she wasn't completely in church.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Right? That, that part.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: she and, um, I, I brought her into my wall, uh, into this room. Um, I have candles on the walls. I have beautiful pictures around.

I have, um, this poster [00:59:00] with powerful saying um, and I'm gonna read it to you. It says, uh, live the life you've always dreamed of. Be fearless in the face of adversity. Never stop learning. Use your imagination whenever possible. Recognize the beauty that surrounds you. Be you, remember where you came from, but never lose sight of where you're going.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I do here is that I get my bells going. I turn off the light, I light the candles. Um, and I get 'em a little personal mantra going, um, for me, my words are, um, are becoming. And then I say, whatever it is that I wanna invite into my life of what I'm becoming. Um, shout out to Michelle Obama, uh,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Mm-hmm.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: I was like, how brilliant that progressive tense, right? That you are always in the state of. so to me, that's my joy, um, is that I refuse to seek it outside myself. Um, I, I choose to [01:00:00] sit still myself and think and find it within. And, and, and the, the, the way I find it within is that I invite those thoughts into my head of who I am becoming, of what I'm becoming. Have conversations with my grandmother, um, passed away years ago, but I have conversations with her and I thank her for who she was and who she is within me. Right? Um, and, and that to me has been my new place of joy, um, is to really, to, to really find it within.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: I love that. A great place to end our episode. Aisha, thank you so much for coming on the show folks.

asha-von-liebtag-_1_07-09-2024_174055: you for, look at me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_07-09-2024_154055: Yeah, of course. All of her information will be in the show notes. Please take a look, reach out, ask questions. Um, but in the meantime, we will talk to you all later. Peace out.

[01:01:00]