Episode 44: Black Educators Organizing Against Anti-Blackness with Jalisa Evans

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: [00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of the Exit Interview, a podcast for black educators with me, Dr. Asia, and we have another fire guest. Folks, I feel like I say this every time that we have fire guests, but that just means that my black folks out here are doing great things, right? So excited. Today we have another guest on Julissa Evans.

Welcome to the show.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Thank you. Thank you for having me. feel so honored to.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah, I mean, I'm honored that you decided to come on and talk to us. Uh, we ran into each other at South by Southwest by way of Margot. Shout out to you, Margot. When you hear this episode, shout out to Margot. Um. So we connected on, we have some other things cooking in the background that I will talk to you folks about sometime down the road.

But, uh, she's here to tell her exit interview story and we're excited and appreciative [00:01:00] to have her on. So let's go ahead and get started. First things first, what made you decide to go into education? What's that journey like for you?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Um, so my journey was not your typical education journey, so I didn't go or grow up wanting to be a teacher. Actually wanted to be a doctor. Um. I went to North Carolina a and t State University, the best HBCU there is. Um, and I started to explore and I, my major was psychology with a minor in pre-med and I started to explore my field and it was my. Going into my senior year where I got to this place where I no longer wanted to go to medical school, I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I know I wanted to kind of go into a graduate program, but I needed space to really think. I had went through a lot during my junior year and I just wanted to like. explore more. And [00:02:00] so, um, I applied to Teach for America. I actually applied, um, the last interview round and wasn't even sure that I was going to get it, but I remember doing my teacher, uh, lesson where I was being recorded and I was like, oh, I could really be a teacher. And I immediately, um, really wanted the opportunity.

And so I was placed in Charlotte, North Carolina, which was my. Number two choice, um, down the road from where I went to school and immediately fell in love with teaching. fell in love with my students and like, it, it, it was like something that I always wanted to do. It was like, this is what I wanna do for the rest of my life.

My family was like, wow. You went from wanting to be a doctor to like now wanting to be a teacher full time. It's like, yes. This is my calling. I'm grateful for [00:03:00] stumbling on this opportunity and this is it for me. So I didn't have a why then. But I will say my why of why I just fell in love with it so fast was immediately the students like I was 21 teaching seventh grade middle school science,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: No, let's just pause. Everybody who listens to this show knows how I feel about seventh graders. Oh, bless you, sweetie. Bless you. Yes, go ahead.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: it was a party in my classroom, like literally, and it wasn't like a party where, oh, miss, Ms. Johnson at the time didn't do anything. It was like hardcore learning. But those babies will fall in love with science because I had a true love of science.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: I was crazy too, like I was teaching on top of the tables.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Oh, that was me. That was me. Yes.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Like, and so I, I [00:04:00] really captured their attention and it was really the students, oh, that was my why.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah, I love that. I wanna ask you, so first of all, we've had quite a few folks that have come on, um, who took the TFA journey and same like in medical at their school, and then changed their mind like towards the end of their undergrad. Uh, so shout out to Brittany Dawson, whose episode dropped. In April, late April, who was also on TFA.

Um, so it's a quite a few that people who have a journey of, I wanna do this thing and now I'm, I was deciding to be an educator. I wanna talk a little bit about this, like what your family said, because the same thing I was asking lots of people who were in medical and then moved over. What was that like for you to let them know, I'm no longer deciding to go into this field, I wanna go into teaching.

What was their reaction?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: I think. So great, the good reactions that I got, my dad [00:05:00] and my grandmother were like fully in support. They thought I was crazy, but they were in full support. My grandmother was very much like. Man, we would've had one doctor in our family that like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Mm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: looking forward to that.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: she used to hear me when I came home from school and just heard my tone and just, she's like, I'm glad you're happy. Um, my mother had to wrestle with the fact that like, man. gonna really be getting paid much money. Like, do you understand that this is, this is gonna be a struggle for you, like going into this profession? I was like, yeah, like I'm happy and you can't pay for that. Like you

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: the love those, those babies loved on me and how I loved on them. So.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah. I love that. That's good because I know that some folks have talked about this idea of the family pressure to, like, this was a bragging thing. My child was going [00:06:00] into the medical field and now they're going to only be a teacher, you know, and so they had to grapple with. Being very happy for their own decision to be, go into education and then realizing that their families had different dreams for them

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: and deciding to push on and do what they wanted to do anyway, so that's why I had to ask that question.

So tell us about like how long you were teaching, how long you were in education,

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: what was that like for you?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: So I taught for a total of three years. in both Charlotte, North Carolina and in la um, my experience in Charlotte, so I'm telling you, I, I first entered the classroom. We were on this ultimate high, and I started to notice about four months in that I had a large group of black and brown boys who were not reading on grade level. Coming from A-H-B-C-U, coming from like the mecca of Black Excellence, I could not wrap my mind [00:07:00] around how they were not reading on grade level in seventh grade, like literally at the first grade level. I could. It just didn't make sense to me, and they were not students who didn't want to learn. They were infatuated with learning. so I sought help. I was like, Hey, I have a group of kids. Who are not reading on grade level, but they want to access my curriculum and how can I support them in that? So I went to the English teacher for our grade level, and instead she pulled up my roster and was like, well, you're gonna have a problem with this person, this person, this person, this person.

You should place them here, place them here. Mind you, I did not come because I was having classroom management issues. was the least of my problems in my classroom. Um, so I was like, okay, she didn't answer my question, so let me go to the admin because maybe we can start a program. the administrator was just [00:08:00] like, you know, it's not much that we can do.

They've been behind, you see, they've been behind since first grade, right? So. There's not much we can do, but we can provide some support. You know, maybe you should try to chunk their reading. She gave me some strategies to them, but there was nothing to like fully address when they will be on grade level.

Like what is our plan? Um, and the crazy thing about it, this district was their northern star was literacy this year. Like it was, they said that they were gonna focus on literacy. I'm like, not at my school. So into this like, um, real depressive state. Like, I, I didn't, I couldn't make sense of what my purpose was for in the classroom if I couldn't serve all my kids.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: and so I, I think it was like, yeah, I got through the fall semester going into, uh, the [00:09:00] springtime and I got connected through Teach for America with. The leadership and education equity side of, of Teach for America Lee. and got matched with someone who is my mentor till this day. Um, Charlene Mack, who was organizing across Charlotte, and she's like, what are you gonna do about it? I was like, I just told you, I talked to all of these people. Oh, they don't have any solution for me, so what are you gonna do to help me? Um, and so come to find out, at the time I started to just like really focus in what was going on in my district politics wise. there was a big fight on neighborhood schools versus like going out, being bused outside of your school. Um, school board meetings were like super divisive folks were either in green shirts or orange shirts and for neighborhood schools and not for neighborhood schools. And so I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Mm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: up with [00:10:00] Charlene like, man, but this is not the conversation that's happening in my school. this is crazy as this happened at the school board level. And so I joined her on a campaign to really listen intentionally with families and students and educators in the midst of this divisive time that was happening in our district. And what there was an agreeance across each sector that I just named students, educators, and families. And they were like, we need better schools.

Like, I don't mind sending my child to the neighborhood school, but my neighborhood school. Conditions are worse than my school and I'm living in government housing. Why? And I started to think and like be hypervigilant of my school. Like, man, my students sometimes have brown water coming from the water fountains. Sometimes we don't have like proper. Air conditioning in our schools. And so we basically [00:11:00] organized across the city of Charlotte we forced the county commissioner to allocate $132 million through a bond to a certain set of schools that had like 60 years of deferred maintenance. It was crazy.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Wow, wow.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Um, and in that

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: When that's, and that's the time, and that's the ti. 60 years of deferred maintenance. Typically, schools are torn down after 60 years. We're not starting to talk about revamping air conditioning systems. So that says a lot about what you all were dealing with.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: So I share that to say like you asked how long I was teaching, in the midst of that, like first year, I learned that everything outside of my classroom. Is what had more power than me in my own classroom. And so I got really keen. I even called myself like this teacher organizer of like, I am organizing at night and teaching by day.

That was [00:12:00] like my thing, especially after that campaign, I was. This is the work that I wanna continue and constantly do. and so I finished up my two year commitment in Charlotte, North Carolina. at the time I was like, man, I really want to see what it will look like for me to be on this journey of having my own school to where I can have some sense of power that connects both community and what my, what my students really need.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Let me pause you for a second. Wait a minute that you about 22 in this story. At this point, I'm following loan you a new you a newborn.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Very much so. Very much

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yes. So Valentine, you turned 22. We already organized and got some money for our schools. We're doing a thing. So we are busy.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: We are busy. Okay. I just want to track this for my, for my folks who are listening at home.

We think that we have to wait till we're older or whatever our situation is, or we have to do certain things when we're [00:13:00] done teaching. And this conversation is really teaching me, teaching all of us. I hope that you don't have to wait to make changes in your school districts, in your systems. You don't have to leave and you can start doing that work wherever you are and however you need to do that.

But go ahead.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah, so. 22, turning 23-year-old JSA moves to la because I was told both if I wanted to be a school leader, I, I was getting connected to, um, gonna leave the networks out because this network gets flack all the time. And then the story that I'm telling going to share while I'm leaving. I'm just not gonna, uh, mention that network's name, but I knew this was a network where I could become a school leader fast. Um, and I could also be able to be active in my community. and I was also, um, going to be in a community that was South [00:14:00] Central, right? This

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: um, historic South Central Los Angeles, where it has always been known for having, um, a black presence. So I was really excited about that. Um, and my student. On the corner of King and Western building tsunami sensors. Like I had another group of kids that were on fire about science, on fire, about learning, and we're in la so they also acted at night. Okay. So it was a group, good group of kids. Um. And I remember getting really frustrated of talking to my parents and families and learning their plight to get to school. A lot of them drove far like two hours, had to wake up at like 5:00 AM just to get to school so that they could have a better option and bypass LA traffic. Um, I had. Some students who were [00:15:00] living with other family members so that they could get to school on time, um, and be, have an opportunity to go to a good school. And I'm thinking to myself, this school isn't even all that. Like, this isn't like a private school creme de la creme, you know? Our data was very average at the time. We were like 22% proficient in math. Um, and I couldn't remember the, the reading score at this time, but I remember sitting in a, a PD and we were looking at the data and when the 22% proficient in math came up on the board, our school leader, Dan. Like

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Hmm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: And um, she points, she was like, y'all don't understand. Next door, which was a, a public school in L-A-U-S-D was at 4% proficient in math. [00:16:00] And I was just like, what in the world? Like one, this is why the families are. doing this hop, skip drive to get their kids to a school that's only 22% proficient and, um, that criminalized our students, right?

I often would have to like step in on behalf of my students to make sure that, one, they weren't being criminalized, but also that they weren't being targeted within the school as like something that is a minor behavior that didn't follow them. Um, I will never forget talking to a student who was acting up.

I was on my plan period, was kind of acting up, kind of getting frustrated, was really emotional. Y'all, it's like seventh grade. were just

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Right, right.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: and I was like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: I.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: know, you're smart. You, you make good grades. You just have to be able to find the time to take. To address the [00:17:00] feelings that you're feeling in a way that doesn't disrupt the classroom. the school leader walks by and was like, I don't even know why you're wasting your time, Ms. Johnson.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: And I was just like, why am I here? Why am I here?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah. Can I, can I just pause you for a second? The, so, 'cause you're saying a lot right now in this small, a small amount of time

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: and I'm, I'm at this 4%, I'm at this 20 something percent proficiency and I know that folks who are listening to this podcast are gonna say that's terrible. But I also want people to think about their own school district's

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: proficiencies.

Right. I just read from the black, uh, black Parent Network here in Colorado.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Mm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: That 25% of black boys in Denver public schools re uh, have a proficient in math or proficient in math.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: so 25, 1 in four. And so we, we do, we do that [00:18:00] drive. I was a kid who took the bus, the public bus at sixth grade across town to an okay.

Decent school and to another school in seventh grade, another school in eighth grade chasing. A good education.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Um, and I know that there are so many families who will drive, put their child on a bus, have them live with someone else, like you're saying, just for that 2% difference, that 10% difference.

And so that's super, super tough. Um, but yeah, I, I'm loving, I'm loving that there's this like through line of like, what are we gonna do about this?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: I'm sure this gonna, this is gonna definitely come into like, what are you doing now? Conversation. But the things that we are saying to our students or they're overhearing us, say, is just so powerful.

I remember listening to Michelle Obama's book and she talked about her counselor saying like, you need to be going to something more community college like, or whatever. Her, I can't remember exact terms and I used to think, [00:19:00] who is saying like, this is not, there can't be adults talking to children like that.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: The more and more I hear these stories, the more and more I'm convinced that adults, and they're supposed to be protecting, our children, are harming, and we know this, this is common knowledge, but harming them very blatantly. Like just saying things other their mouths and thinking, this is a throwaway kid, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And that's just beyond unfortunate. It's criminal,

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: criminal. It's, it's very criminal. And I think there's a, we think about the politics and the system, the system that's working against our students, this particular system, our school was a refurbished old apartment complex. So if you know anything about LA and apartments, like my classroom was like a studio apartment, right? And you can see it because they, you land [00:20:00] and buildings and space is hard to come by. And so this school refurbished that to be a school, but it still was very old. Right? And so when you looked at. This particular network of schools and their schools that they had in South Central Los Angeles looked a certain type of way in comparison to the the mega buildings that they had in East Los Angeles.

Right. And it was a telling sign that black students, when we talk about people of color, that black students didn't matter. And our students sometimes would like do activities at those other schools or would hear about it and, you know, they're, they're moving all across the city to go to this school where it just didn't look welcoming for me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: to the school as early as I did, I was like, why am I here? And I slowly saw my love [00:21:00] for teaching dwindle. Because I felt like, because I was that teacher that was standing in the gap for my students, I was being targeted. I was being seen a certain type of way and the professional development that I was promised and eager, that made me move across the country to get, I just wasn't getting. Um, and so that's why I left.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah,

yeah, yeah. That promise of professional development you said moved across the country literally to yet you did not receive.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: many of us, oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: I was just going to like underscore my full hopes of being a school leader. Like I wanted that for myself.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's really interesting when you talk about professional developments and being promised things, so many of us get [00:22:00] promised to get in the door.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Right. And we get excited and we're trying to make changes. And when we realize some of us that we're not gonna get that PD that we were promised, then we go and start making our own PDs and burning ourselves out,

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yep. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Um, like, that's okay, I'm gonna do it myself. And that can go on for a little bit. But after a while, like, where's the end to that? Yeah. Yeah. So everything you're saying is making sense. And um, for those folks who are in LA I'm sure that you can a hundred percent like visualize what, uh, Issa's talking about.

Now my next question is you, we understood why you left, and we'll talk about, like I said before, what you're doing now, but my next question is. Just thinking about the folks that you left on the East Coast and the West coast and this conversation that we're having about black educator retention,

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: what are some ideas [00:23:00] that you may have for school districts, for TFA for unions that they can do to keep the black educators that they have already in schools

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: or in administration, straight of offices?

What are you thinking?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: The top of mind is being bold about learning about anti-blackness. And being committed to eradicating it in their school. Um, it is. So when I think about my experience both east and West, I needed a connection to community, which is innate for black folks, right? Like we are collective, we are communal. And when we think about what our schools were before Brown V Board. They were communities, right? They were my dad's teacher. He was in the, uh, he was like barely kindergarten age and sat [00:24:00] in a first grade class because the teacher that lived in his community said, you're gonna come with me, right? You're gonna be a part of school with me. Every day. He would be dressed and ready and she would on her way to school, stop and get him. And so. When we think about the unintentional consequences of Brown versus board, I think there's something for systems to start to dig into of how do we repair that harm? how do we start to look at how black students were operating and receiving their education prior to integration? And what pieces of that still need to be exist in our schools today for both black educators and black students? I think for, black educators, we care deeply about black students. And so if the data is constantly telling us that black students are the lowest on the totem pole, [00:25:00] are the lowest performing, and the data is, they're not seeing the rise in the data and they're being told all of these tricks to get data to rise for them, and they're not seeing that increase for black students, I think. That, that also contributes to the burnout for black educators. It's like, where do I see, or how am I gonna change that for folks who look like me?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: So I, I, I, I think that districts have to be super critical of that unapologetically, just be bold and really forcing if you care about seeing black student achievement and if you care about seeing, um, black educator retention. For, for unions, I think our unions have to learn the experience of black educators, and know that the stories that they're telling are being targeted and that they're in toxic environments is not that they're just angry, um, [00:26:00] and that they should be taken as any type of complaint that a teacher would give to the union and that they should investigate them deeply.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah, I, I, I have a couple things. One, just starting from the union piece. I a hundred percent can relate to that. I've said, shared my story on my own exit interview on our podcast. And the thing that I talked about in that episode was when I was experiencing racism from my administrator, and I went to my union and told them that the union, my direct union person was black woman.

Yes, she believed it, no problem. But when we had to elevate it. I was talking to a white man

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Mm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: and I saw his face shift when I said I'm experiencing racism. It was very visible. And so from that point, I knew this person could never defend me in front of my white female administrator because he doesn't believe [00:27:00] racism is a thing,

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: and so I'm left out here.

To figure out how to support myself or gather my community to support me, because even though I paid into the union, the union was not there for me, right? So yes, I a hundred thousand percent agree with that. And so this makes me think about, as much as I love unions for lots of things, if unions aren't able to support black educators and believe our stories, then why are they in existence?

Especially because we had black unions before Brown versus board, right. And they were dissolved because of NEA

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: other organ national organizations. Um, because they, they were there to support us. The second thing I want you to really, I wanna go back to is you specifically use the term anti-blackness and not just racism.

And so can you talk a little bit more about that?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah. I think we, one, we're, um, we are as a [00:28:00] country, as a world we are so used to hearing anti-racism. We're so used to hearing, um, uh, DEI, um, and. DEI is now the new N word. It's like this evolution, right? We're so comfortable in hearing that. But the truth is, even once we may have a DEI in our school, we may have some commitment that is, is seen. We may have, um, an LUSC, there's a anti-racist micro-credential, right? Yeah. Teachers, uh, school leaders, assistant leaders can go and get a micro-credential, anti-racism, but we are still experiencing racism black folks, just being black, right? For black folks just being themselves. Um. For, uh, black women standing strong and communicating, [00:29:00] not being hostile, but then being deemed hostile, uh, I that's anti-black. there, we've made this commitment around being anti-racist, we have not made a commitment in being anti-black.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah. I'm glad you cleared that up, and I think. Anti-blackness says this, we're against black people, non-black folks. Right? So it's not just white people, it's our brown folks, our indigenous folks, and we're experiencing this, right, not just from white educators and white families. It is coming from all sides.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: yeah, I'm glad you said that. Um, the anti-racism, micro-credential is wild because this idea of, I took this micro-credential class and now I have the stamp. To say that is the most, to me, the most dangerous thing that I've heard about in a while [00:30:00] as far as trying to move the needle, you know, in racism in schools, what kind of damage.

It's just like when folks say, well, I have a black friend, and they said it was okay to do blah.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yep.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: This is like the black friend credential.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: It's.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: The black, yeah, the black friend credential. Yes. That's wild to me.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah. Or I have a DEI person, so we're good,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: you know?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah. Okay. All right. So lots to share here. I really appreciate this. We're gonna go on our break and then we're gonna come back and do my favorite part of the interview.

Welcome back. So we are here with jsa. JSA is D, doing D jsa

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Jsa.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: jsa. JSA is doing dope work out here and she's shared so much. [00:31:00] We just got finished talking about the anti-racism, micro credential. Which is a black friend card. Um, and, uh, her organizing, even in her being a first year teacher, second year teacher, and seeing a lot of issues of anti-blackness, um, some huge literacy gaps in her black boys when she was teaching.

And so now we're talking about the second part about what she's doing now and all the other things. And we're gonna start out with the first question, which is, well tell us. Who's a black teacher that you would like to shout out that's either teaching now? Who taught you? Anyone you can think of?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: I have a laundry list. So

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Go for it.

Go for it.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: so my first black educator was in seventh grade, and it was Ms. Lasseter and she didn't play. Um, Ms. Lasseter held me to high expectations. Um, and she was a stern black woman. And I, I appreciated Ms. [00:32:00] Lasseter. Um, she taught. Seventh grade English, and I was reading books that I had never been introduced to before. unfortunately that was my first and only black educator through K through 12, which I think is. really profound. When you look at the high school that I went to, um, in Virginia Beach, Virginia, which is Bayside High School, while there were black educators there, I was a part of the Health and Sciences Academy 'cause y'all know I wanted to be a doctor. And so, but through that medical program, there were no black teachers.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Um, so I didn't get that opportunity. My next going to A-H-B-C-U, that's, so I had all black educators, um, one that stood out to me and really I think shaped me. One by introducing me to Bell Hooks. But, uh,[00:33:00]

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yes.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Is Dr. Corne? Like, uh, not only did she introduce me to Bell Hooks and Black feminism, she also was the first time where I got to apply my science skill to, um.

Really studying and getting deeper around racism. So my junior year at a and TI was able to like survey what biases look like, um, and, and do deep research and actually presented my research at UNC Chapel Hill. So. appreciate Dr. Kne for like, sending me on this journey. Um, and then the rest of the black educators, one the black educators that I currently still work with, one black educator, miss Jamison. Who, uh, I got introduced during my second year teaching in Charlotte. She came in and y'all have to understand, I was [00:34:00] 22 and was really feeling myself because my first year I won a new teacher of the year award, I was popping, like, I felt like I had it in a bag, and Miss Jameson was like, oh, there's so much more you could be doing, and.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Hmm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: I was coming home to my boyfriend at the time now, husband, like, man, this woman gets on my nerves. Like, she doesn't realize that I already got it. Like, I don't need your help, miss Jamerson. but she introduced me to so many tactics that took my classroom to another level, and she helped me realize what it meant to really be serious about my students' data and how if I was really passionate about seeing them grow. work that happens. Um, yeah, I was like coasting by just bare enough before Ms. Jameson came into my life. So very much shout out to Ms. Jameson. [00:35:00] and then Alyssa, Melissa Ali, um, crystal Goff, Melissa Mack, Felicia Lewis. Ebony, Mack, Ebonee. Mackey. Lisa Ross. These teachers are current black educators who are on our team, um, of the Black Educator Advocates Network, and are on the front lines of doing the work of seeing the policy and the practices change for black educators.

And so, I'm, I share them and I bring their spirit into this today because a lot of them are being targeted, right? A lot of them are resisting to their experiences that they're navigating. So gotta shed light on them too.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah, I love that. And shout out to, to Miss Jameson because. Yeah, like I had one of those, I had one that's like, this is all great, good for your ego and let's pull out this data. [00:36:00] So I totally understand that, especially, you know, getting, if you said Teacher of the year and all these things, and already I also had a classroom where discipline wasn't an issue.

We did what they had to do, but we needed those, those folks to say like, you could do better. You could do better. You could do better. I love that. I love that. And so. You already alluded to this, so let's get down to it. You're no longer in traditional education spaces. What are you doing? Tell us all the things that you're up to now.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah, so in 2019, I had the opportunity to found what was an initiative called the Black Educator Advocates Network, which is now a full-blown 5 0 1 C3. Um, this organization is based in la um, and we are on a mission to build power alongside black educators. Um, to transform the practices and policies that are pushing black educators out of the classroom. when we look at [00:37:00] California, California's on fire, first of all. Um, when it comes to the issue around, um, getting black educators into our classrooms, but also retaining our black educators, I think, um, the latest data that we have. Is, uh, from 2018 that says black educators make up about 5% across the state. Um, and it's, it's a stark difference and you, and it's filled right. A lot of black educators are the only one in their schools. Um, and so we sit on the side of like, this is not a recruitment issue all the way. Like, yes, we need to have a focus recruitment strategy, but we also need to think about why black educators are leaving. Um, and we. We have a base of black educators who are organizing based off of their experiences. Some have were pushed out of the classroom and [00:38:00] some still exist in the classroom and are speaking to their experiences that they have every day to influence policy change, both at the local level and across the state of California. We also, um, got into this space because, uh, earlier this year we put out a report where we surveyed 128 black educators across the state of California, we learned that yes, some of them are the only one, and majority of them in the open comment section described anti-blackness experiences. Um, whether it was, um, toxic work environments, not feeling valued by leadership, but feeling like other races are being valued by leadership. Um, some black educators were quoted, like people were thinking that we weren't educated enough or I'm not educated enough to do the job. Um, being the angry black woman, [00:39:00] the comments go on and they were specifically naming anti-blackness and so. know that policy change and organizing is a long term thing and is a long term commitment, but we also wanted to be committed to working with system leaders to coach them on what does it mean to retain black educators, but with a foundation on eradicating anti-blackness.

And so we took those open comments, we took those experiences, and we created this framework of five tenets. Um, that we call the guiding tenants to retaining black educators. And so, yeah, that's beam. It is.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: don't, don't leave. Don't, don't leave us without the, the framework. Don't, don't just leave us hanging. Wait, hold on. Go back. Go back. What's the, tell us about this framework please.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: So I, so first thing about the framework is that [00:40:00] we being did not just create this framework by ourselves in true organizing fashion. We created it alongside black educators. Um, but we convened them. So we convened, um, school psychology psychologists that were black, black school leaders, black educators. Um, we even had some like C-suites folks that were in L-A-U-S-C school district and we convened them for five months and we essentially freedom dreams of like, would it look like for you to feel like you were at a school that values you? And what make you wanna stay and, and, and the experience that either you experienced or you observed. Um, so these are folks who have like 20 years or more in the field who've seen a lot, um, specifically in LA and then also some folks from San Diego. And so we stumbled on five guiding tenets. One is [00:41:00] eradicating anti-blackness. That has to be at the core if you really want to retain black educators. Reconstructing time educator, autonomy, connection to community and communal care, and so. Like I shared earlier, when we really got to what we needed, we imagined and freedom dreamed of the things that we had prior to Brown V Board that, um, really created this holistic, um, education, education experience for both black educators and black students. Um, I always find it ironic how I come into a space and I'm like, this is about black educators. And within 10 minutes they're talking about black students. They cannot have the conversation black students.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: A hundred percent. Yes, [00:42:00] a hundred percent, yes. Black educators will be having the conversation amongst each other and then start talking about. Students and for the work we do with the Black Educator Wellness cohort here in Colorado, we have to keep bringing them back to self.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Right. And their wellness and their wholeness.

And that's really interesting because that's what the default is. They've been doing that for so many years of focusing on the student that they're burning up or burnt up already. So I'm glad you mentioned that.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: So when we created the framework, we were like, okay. These are the solutions that will keep us there, keep black educators in the space, but ultimately to see black student achievement, um, for communal care and a connection to community. They really talked about like, man, how can we go beyond just our classrooms to be able to meet with our students and meet students where they are and meet their families where they are? Um, how [00:43:00] can we. As, uh, as a school be invested in folks care, like what you do. Um, Dr. Lyons, like how can schools be invested in black educators wellness? It's like that has to happen and then also have to be invested in our community's wellness as well.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: And this conversation of how are schools and districts going to focus on the care of black educators? We can have a whole conversation about that

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: because I think that they would have to care first.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Um, and I spoke, I was speaking to a woman, a professor at cu. Boulder. Um, and she was saying like, economically, it's cheaper to just get new teachers all the time.

And so like, why would they wanna keep black teachers? Why would that matter when they can get a cheaper, whatever, a first year versus a seasoned, even third year at this point, or fifth year or [00:44:00] 20th year while we keep black educators? Um, but yeah, the, the idea of a school district. Administrators, principals, superintendents caring about the wellness and wellbeing of black educators, especially those who are not black themselves.

It's hard to imagine. You know, and I, and I, I don't want to like, I know, again, we can have a whole conversation about this, but like, how did you all grapple or how are you grappling with this idea of like, currently. I, I don't see that happening. I don't know if you do, but how, what's that conversation looking like when you talk about school districts and schools caring about black educator wellness?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah, I think. The conversation where we're at is if we connect where black student data is. Right. And I, I mean, I've, I'm still young. I'm not 22 anymore, but I've, I've been here in the game for 10 years now and I feel like [00:45:00] I've seen everything thrown at the window to address black student achievement in L-A-U-S-D.

We actually. You like defunded school, police, and put that pot of money, which is like 20 million into black student achievement, right? So not only have we done every tactic, we've also addressed it with money. And I think it's time for our districts to wrestle with the fact that if we are not being intentional about caring for our black students, then we're never gonna see that change. in order to care for black students. You have to also realize that they need a black educator. I think we're, that's how we approach the conversation is like if you, you say you wanna do this work, like L-A-U-S-D is like, Hey, we're committed to black educators. They're, they actually have a resolution.

They're bounded by it. and, and every [00:46:00] practice that they're sharing with us of like, this is what they're doing is all recruitment. And so we're having a conversation of like, recruitment is not enough and we need to talk about retention and this is how we retain. Um, some folks are like, man, this is radical.

Y'all are talking about anti-blackness. I remember at some point uh, or making a commitment to be anti-racist was radical. so I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yes. Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: that. Folks start to adopt language. Um, and, and as, as quickly, and even in this times, folks are probably like, what are you talking about, Delisa? right now where our language is being weaponized against us, we have to continue to talk about how anti-blackness impacts. students and black educators and the, and the day that we are comfortable with stopping that [00:47:00] conversation, that means we don't believe that black students will ever achieve in our schools, and we need to be having a whole nother conversation.

And I still believe that they don't have to have the lowest data. so I'm consistently continuing the conversation around what are we gonna do to address anti-blackness.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: I absolutely love that strategy. I absolutely love that strategy.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Um. Yeah, that's brilliant. And it makes so much sense. We need folks to believe that, that they, and, and, and the proof will show

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: you care about black students, then this is what you need to do next. And whatever that result is, is our answer to do we really care about black students?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah. I love, love, love that. Folks, I, you know, if you listening to this episode, you see we got the most firest guests, and fires is not a word, but I made [00:48:00] it a word to say. I mean, take some notes, reach out. Okay. Tell our audience, um, if they're in la, if they're not in LA, how can they support you? Anything that's happening that they should be, should know about how they can contact you.

All the things.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Yeah, I would say either visit our website@blackeducatorsadvocate.org. our social media is the same on, we're on IG and Facebook. I struggle with x. Slash Twitter, so we're on IG and Facebook, black educators advocate, um, and reach out. Um, if you are in a, a state where they're not having a conversation about anti-blackness and you wanna see how we can train or do workshop or just like observe us, reach out, um, we're open to being and supporting you all. I will say that, [00:49:00] LA and California is like, you know, everyone calls it a progressive state. Uh, that could be argued. Um, but the things that you all are hearing me talk about of like what has been tried in L-A-U-S-D, this anti-racist micro-credential, I think there's some hope that if we can get district talking about anti-blackness, then we should be able to rec replicate that into other districts across the nation. Um, because it is the second largest school district, so. Join us and have a conversation. I'm open, um, to chatting with folks to go deeper and what this looks like for their schools.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Awesome. Thank you so much. And last question,

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Okay.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: what's been, what's been bringing you joy these days?

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: Okay. So I have a almost 2-year-old, um, she'll be two in August and what's really bringing me joy these days is her obsession with the princess and the frog. [00:50:00] Um, she loves Princess Tiana. can sing

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Yeah.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: there, like it's nobody's business.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Oh yeah.

squadcaster-jalisa-evans_1_05-01-2024_154043: So that brings me joy of hearing her sing those songs and almost there is a hit like it when you really listen to the lyrics, like, man, yes, we are almost there. So I get joy hearing my 2-year-old sing almost there.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_05-01-2024_134045: Well, folks, that's it. Um, again, we have work to do if you are no longer in education in the traditional sense. Obviously there's a, a place for you and you've heard that on the podcast today to make sure that you take a look at our show notes for more information and links to get in in contact. And, uh, I hope to see you all on the next episode.

Peace.

​[00:51:00]