Don't Ever Downplay My Accomplishments with Sataira Douglas

Geraldo: [00:00:00] I go,

Dr. Asia Lyons: alright, welcome to the exit interview episode one, season one, I'm Asia and I'll be co-hosting this with Kevin Adams.

Kevin Adams: How y'all doing?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Um, so excited to get this started. Uh, it's been a long time coming, uh, so just sit back and enjoy our first story. But before we get started, follow us at two Dope Teachers on Instagram and Twitter, and you can like us on facebook@facebook.com, two dope teachers and a mic.

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All right, so Kevin, go ahead.

Kevin Adams: We are here today with our, our very first interview of, of the first exit interview. Um, you know, Asia, this is funny because like we, we, we hope to have a lot of interviews for our podcast sake, [00:02:00] but we hope to not have a lot of interviews. You know, like this is one of those weird things.

But, uh, we are honored here today to have our inaugural guest, uh, Satter Douglas. So welcome Satter to the exit interview.

Sataira Douglas: All right. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for having me.

Kevin Adams: Yeah, no problem. Glad to have you.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. Um, so I guess, you know, our podcast is gonna be, and I guess this is good for everyone to know, really based on three different themes, telling your story, your lived experience, um, the classroom, the last straw, if you will.

Then also, um, how it affected your family, which you were going through is in education, and then what you're doing now. We know that a lot of folks think about leaving the classroom, but don't know the direction they should go in or what people are doing once they leave the classroom. So, you know, go ahead and take it away and we'll just kind of jump in as we see fit.

Sataira Douglas: All right. Um, so again, my name is Satara Douglas. I [00:03:00] am still actually currently a teacher in Denver Public Schools. Um, and I started in Cherry Creek back in 2011, 2010. Some odd number like that. Um, but uh, what drove me to be an educator is my mom has, um. Has a passion for education. Um, and so that's what she wanted to be, was an educator.

And, um, she was not able to be for whatever reason. Um, and so I think she instilled this like, love for education. Therefore, I went to school for education. Um, I have two degrees in it. Um, and as a teacher, what I enjoy the most is I really enjoy, uh, teaching kids, um, but also giving them a different perspective, right?

Like, I think traditionally teaching is done by, um, white women, right? Mm-hmm. We know that.

Geraldo: Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: And white women have a different perspective. And, um, I would say most minorities in, um, how we address life, how we handle life, how we, the challenges we face. Um, [00:04:00] so when I go into the classroom, I like to make sure that I am speaking to my kids in a language that speaks to them.

Um, one that they recognize, one that's familiar. I pride myself on you, like telling them stories about my personal life. Um, growing up K through 12, I don't remember knowing much about my teachers. I actually remember thinking that they didn't, that they lived at the school. I remember. Yeah. Which is kind of sad.

Um, and it shows you how naive I was. Um, but I remember thinking that, and so I pride myself on making sure my kids know that like I have a life outside of, um, teaching and that it mirrors most of my kids' life, especially my minority kids. It mirrors their life, right? Like I have a sister and a mom who I care for and me Sure.

Um. And so I really try to make sure my kids see that. I also try to make sure, um, for my minority kids that they kind of get that structure that we need. Like I remember my first teacher who wasn't always trying to be [00:05:00] nice and smile, like I remember mm-hmm. The first teacher who actually showed me what life was gonna be like, um, and what journey and hurdles I would go through.

Of course, they didn't teach me every little hurdle, but um, they gave me a perspective of that it wasn't gonna be a cookie cutter hand to me. Um, life.

Geraldo: Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: I try to make sure my minority kids get that as well. Like that I love you, but love isn't always giving you what you need or, or not giving you what you want

Kevin Adams: want.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Love is not always that. Love is also giving you what you need and what you don't even know you're going to need.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so that's just been my education. I worked, or myself as a teacher, I worked in Cherry Creek for about. I don't know, four years, something like that. Maybe three. I don't know.

Honestly, can't remember. Um, and in Cherry Creek as a teacher, um, I worked all over the district, so I should say that I worked in the, um, east part of the district where that's like the ugly baby side of Cherry Creek. I hate to say that, but, um, [00:06:00] like Overland and all that good stuff where Yep. They really are in Cherry Creek, but no one really claims the Mass Cherry Creek, unfortunately.

So I've worked on that side.

Dr. Asia Lyons: All the, can you talk, can I'm sorry to pause you. Can you talk more about that for people, audience members outside who don't outside? Yeah. Yeah. Don't know the district or don't know anything about our state.

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. So, um, chair Creek, um, is one of the best I will give them that.

It's one of the best districts in Colorado and a lot of people want their kids there, right? Like, I own a rental property there, and it's never without tenants because people want their kids in Cherry Creek no matter what part of the district. Um, it's a pretty big district. I don't know exactly size, but it covers Aurora, a little bit of Denver.

I don't know the suburbs. It's definitely the suburbs of districts. Um, and then, so for most people who think of Cherry Creek, it's a very white district.

Geraldo: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Very, very white. Um, however, they have little pockets and even now more so they're growing little pockets, uh, diversity. And so when I say the east, I think it's the east side of the [00:07:00] district.

I'm pretty sure it's the east side of the district. Um, that's in Aurora. It's like I 2 25 and going, let me think of my directions. Uh, let's see. I think going west towards the mountains, I believe. Yes. Going west. Mm-hmm.

Kevin Adams: Yep. Good.

Sataira Douglas: Okay. So it's going west. Um, there's a whole bunch of schools and these schools are now minority majority schools, so they're nothing but minorities in these schools.

They have a high population of immigrants. They have, um. Black and brown students. A lot of el um, English language learners live over there. And so the reason why I said that it's like the part of the district, it's like it's little ugly babies because everyone, um, knows it's a part of Chair Creek, but it's not the part that Chair Creek glows about, right?

Like, I don't think Chair Creek works twice as hard to make sure that that part of the district is getting the same resources, the same, um, accolades, the same, best of the best teachers as the part where, um. [00:08:00] I don't know where part, what part of the district it is, but like Cherokee Creek High School where John always send it.

Yep,

Kevin Adams: yep, yep, yep, yep. Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: So like, it's very different. Um, that part also has like a high turnover rate. Um, yeah. So that's why I say it's the ugly baby. Like it's the part of the district where if they could probably get rid of a part of the district, they would sell those schools and give them to either Aurora public schools or Denver public schools.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Hmm.

Sataira Douglas: Um, so that's what I mean by that. And it's, it's different. I will say like, um, it's probably the part of the district I enjoy the most because it's the most minority. Um, heavy. You have a lot of working families over there. A lot of the families over there it 'cause, so if you don't know that much about Cherry Creek, there are families who can donate salaries, um, in Cherry Creek, right?

Yeah. So they can donate paraprofessional salaries or teacher salaries. But in that side of the district, it's not so much the case. Right? Like those are working families. Um. Even if they weren't could like, who says I have to donate?

Kevin Adams: Yeah,

Geraldo: yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: To [00:09:00] a district I already pay taxes to. Like, I, that's

Kevin Adams: right.

Sataira Douglas: I don't even know why that makes sense. Why I'm gonna pay for a teacher when I already pay taxes, like I think on my part. Um, and so that's what I mean by that part of the district. And then do you want more? Is that good?

Dr. Asia Lyons: No, that makes sense. Go ahead. Your story.

Sataira Douglas: Alright. Yeah. And so then thank

Dr. Asia Lyons: you.

Sataira Douglas: Of course.

And so then the other part of the district that I've worked in is like, uh, I don't, it's the newer part of the district, so it's uh, past like E four 70. Um, so that's a very, very white part of the district, right? That's where people are donating. I remember when I first started at the school out there, um, they had donated.

Uh, 20 14,000. I don't know. A lot of money. Let's just say. It was just too much to understand why people were able to just donate this much. And again, I'm coming from the perspective of one, my mom was not rich when I went to school.

Geraldo: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: And two, as a teacher, I'm not rich, so I don't even know how I could donate.

Someone could donate basically my salary

Kevin Adams: mm-hmm. [00:10:00]

Sataira Douglas: Um, to school. Um, and so that part of the district was very different because the, when I worked over there, my kids had one-to-one iPads provided by the school, not, not themselves.

Kevin Adams: And this is this before the, before remote learning, before all this pandemic,

Sataira Douglas: before remote learning.

This was,

Dr. Asia Lyons: wow.

Sataira Douglas: This school started, I think it opened, I worked there in 2013. So it opened in 2012. And so one of the big pushes, um, because it's an elementary school, so they were taking them from this well-known elementary school that was getting the grade, the greatest of the greatest scores. They love their principal.

It was a really good school. And so in order to split this community and put them in a new school, they promised them that they would give them one-to-one iPads. Um,

Dr. Asia Lyons: oh, I see, I see. Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Three through fifth, three third through fifth grade. Our kids had one-to-one iPads. So as a teacher, I had Apple tv, and this is back in 2013, I was teaching on Apple tv.

I was teaching on iPads. I was sending homework via iPads.

Kevin Adams: Wow.

Sataira Douglas: Um, whereas in the other part [00:11:00] of the district, we were using notebooks, I think. Um

Kevin Adams: mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: It was to say we even had every curriculum we needed or Sure. More copies of curriculums. Um, it was just very different.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: So, yeah, I've worked in all parts of the district and, um, the reason why I left Cherry Creek, um, for several reasons I ended up leaving.

So in 2013, to give a little perspective, I, or 2012, I was working for a principal who I really liked. Um, and he decided to take a job in another, uh, another. School in the district. Um, but I decided to stay because I, that was just my new comfort zone or whatever. Um, however, I had, you've worked in, um, Asia, you've worked in Cherry Creek.

So in Cherry Creek they do walkthroughs, right. Building walkthroughs where mm-hmm. Um, all these people come in, community members come in. And so that year I had a principal come in, um, from the school that had iPads and she liked what she seen. Mm-hmm. And so she literally recruited me, which is against Cherry Creek's policy, um, recruited me to Oh,

Dr. Asia Lyons: [00:12:00] wow.

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. And like I even remember, like, they pulled me outta class, um, had me talk to her right then and there. Uh, she told me that if I had took the job, if I had taken the interview, it was automat automatically my job. So it was definitely like recruiting. I definitely was like a comfort place of, yeah.

Walking into it. Um, and I'll be transparent that I definitely didn't feel good about it. Like I definitely was, it felt good to be recruited, right? Like that's a wonderful feeling that someone wants you. Um, and not only do they want you, like she, at the time before I even took in the interview, I had met parents who met me at my current job who are saying, oh, like you are that new teacher.

We want, like, the community is asking for you. So it was like, not even just like her, yeah, she was talking to her colleagues, the teachers were talking to me, parents were talking to me. So it was definitely like, Hey, we want you, you should

Kevin Adams: talk. You, you, you were the number one draft pick.

Sataira Douglas: Right.

Kevin Adams: Yes. He was the double one, Jeff pick,

Sataira Douglas: and it was,

Dr. Asia Lyons: yeah, it sounded like it, right?

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. [00:13:00] And it was clear and it felt good, but

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, even though it felt good, like I remember at the time telling my friends like, oh my gosh, like, something does not sit well about this. Yep. Someone is selling, like even the devil can sell. I remember saying this, and I don't even know where this came from.

I was like, the devil can sell hell as heaven as long as they put a good spin on it. Yep.

Geraldo: Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: And I remember saying that all the time. Well, it went against my tuition. I still took the job and, um, started out there and I, within that first month, I knew I should have never took that job. Um, because she had positioned me on a team with two other teachers.

One, I was the teacher with most experience. Um, but, and that's not a problem, but she had positioned me to be on that team because she wanted me to be the like person who compromise between them. They're very strong personalities. Oh,

Dr. Asia Lyons: wow. Wow. So

Sataira Douglas: she had even told me, like, I, you know, they, they both want their way, but you could be the person who.

Is in the middle. Mm-hmm. And at first I thought like, no big deal. Right? Like, I'm kind of like copacetic. Like it can't be that bad. [00:14:00] And also when she recruited me, she thought I was gonna get along with team A, A, um, and that we were gonna be best friends. And in reality, I thought I was gonna be cool with her too, but that's not how it worked out.

Yeah. Um, and so by that first month, like one, she didn't help me set up my classroom. She never came and checked on me. Not that I need any of those things, but I think that speaks volumes when someone Sure. Yeah. Comes to your school and they're in your community for the first year that you don't feel like you have to do any of that.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so the first time we ran into a problem was during one of our like PLCs. So professional learning commun, um, professional learning communities.

Kevin Adams: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Okay.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Thank you. I'm like sending

Kevin Adams: all the acronyms. Yeah.

Geraldo: Right. Exactly.

Sataira Douglas: And so, and they're very different from district.

Yeah.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: So, um. We had. Got it. Um, the first time we had a real problem is I had, uh, like a little coach and she was leading the meeting, but we were talking about the achievement gap. And so I just wanna give background, like the one thing I did do in college is I was a [00:15:00] McNair scholar and I researched the achievement gap and whether, um, teachers were prepared to teach, I think I called them ethnically, ethnically, racially, and culturally diverse learners.

Right?

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: So if I don't speak up about anything, this is the one thing I'm gonna speak up about. Like, um, and so the lady was basically saying that like, um, we needed to come up with a plan for how we were gonna address our achievement gap. Um, and more or less the kids that we were gonna target, they had to be minorities.

Now again, I just told you I worked at a very, very white school. Yes. Like there was country club because

Kevin Adams: Yes.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and I think. Minorities made up maybe 1% of that.

Kevin Adams: Yes. Yes.

Sataira Douglas: Maybe two max. Like let's give them 2%.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so to me, when we're talking about this and we're looking at the, the data in front of us, it was a problem to me because like I told her, like one, so we are gonna overlook little Billy Bob, little Billy Bob and John Yep.

[00:16:00] Who are in the bottom to go work with. Um, I thought of the actual girl's name, Jaya, that's not her name, but Jaya to go work with Jaya because she's black. Yeah. And I'm like, well, why does she need that? Like why saying she needs it? Right. And then we were like, well, you know, then that's when all the stereotypical thing comes out.

Like, well, you know, two parent households. And I'm like, first of all, cut the crap. Every last kid out here has two parent households. Yeah. And the one I know who doesn't isn't a white family. So like, let's not even play. And so she was like persistent on me. And so we actually, uh, like departmentalized, and I shouldn't say departmentalized, we did departmentalize, but we also taught by, what is that called?

Um,

Kevin Adams: um, uh, cohorting or like, you know, keeping like,

Sataira Douglas: like low, medium, high.

Kevin Adams: Yep, yep, yep, yep. Oh,

Dr. Asia Lyons: tracking,

Kevin Adams: tracking, tracking, tracking.

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. Thank you. So that's how we taught and I taught the high kids, and so I'm like, why am I focusing like my kids don't need no [00:17:00] focus on, if they made it to my group, then like they don't need focusing on, and even if they do, I'm, I should truly pick the kids at the bottom.

I should not go pick the kid who's the second highest kid up in based on data. Yeah, because black, right?

Geraldo: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Especially because there was nothing alarming about the students. It'd be different if like the kid was coming from a troubled home or their parents are in the middle of a divorce or X, Y, Z.

Then it could be like, okay, let's make sure he stays in that position.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, sure.

Sataira Douglas: But. So like, that was our first like, little battle. So the coach took it back to the principal and the principal was like, oh, no, no, no. And I think I actually told her, I said like, you know, when you wanna talk about the achievement gap, because that's when the coach who was Hispanic, but white presenting and definitely white acting, um, thought she was gonna school me on the achievement gap.

She was like, well, this is why we're doing it. You know, like, because even at the best of the best schools, these kids aren't doing well. And I'm like, cool boo. I understand what achievement gap happens, but achievement gap, if you want to talk about this study, like you need to compare apple to apples.

These [00:18:00] achievement, like the studies you're quoting and the schools you're citing, um, are schools in very different areas than ours. Like we are talking about kids who have resources. I'm talking about, I taught kids who had tutoring after school or got pulled out of school to get Yep. So we are not, you aren't comparing little Johnny and DPS who isn't getting any of those wraparound services.

Um, and I, it wasn't even that I couldn't back down on it. It just did not make sense to me. We were creating another stereotype that because these kids were minorities in an all white school, they had to be the ones who were not doing well, even though did not align with that. And so, um, so that the whole conversation eventually got brought back to the principal.

And after that, like, when I say microaggressions, were real real. They are real. Mm-hmm. And not even microaggressions like that lady, the one thing I can give her respect to her is, um, is when she challenged you and made you feel like you weren't nothing and belittled you, she didn't back down. Like she, [00:19:00] she would've done it in front of everyone.

Like there was times she called me out in front of my teammates. Um, there's times that she had me in office crying, belittling me, then sent me home to drive 45 minutes.

Geraldo: Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and parents seen it and she didn't care like that, that, that's the one thing I would give her because. I have a lot of administrators who do microaggressions, little jabs, and they act like they never did it.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Sure, sure.

Sataira Douglas: Me she stood on it, she was like, no, I say what? I said you weren't blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it just got worse and worse. So like after that I could do no wrong. So after that, because um, obviously like when you get yelled at, even though like they told me like in Chair Creek in general in education, they promote like, be honest, let's talk about equity.

Right? Sure, yep. That whole beyond our own diversity training that that's right. Which sap. And so I'm like, don't tell us to take this training. Don't tell me to come up authentically. And the one time I say something that doesn't align with what you believe. You're gonna now come after me. [00:20:00] That's right.

Yeah. And so like, everything just happened. So then with colleagues, I had one colleague at that same school who told me that, um, on my team, who told me I needed to work as twice as hard as they did because she was married and wanting to have a kid, or she was married and trying to have a kid.

Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: And the other lady was married and had kids.

But I need to work twice as hard now. I remind you now I'm not against working twice as hard.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: But I had the most experience. The grade level. I also had two degrees, so why would I be working twice as hard as anybody?

Dr. Asia Lyons: What made her say that? Like in what situation? What scenario did this come up?

Sataira Douglas: I have no clue.

We had so many conversations. I have no clue. But, and honestly, I would tell you just the audacity, like, 'cause she thought she could say that and she knew she could, like in that circumstance, she knew she could say that to me. And if I went back to the principal, there would, what would the principal do?

Agree with her? Like, yeah, well there's some truth to that. Like you're the single one. Right.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Oh, oh, cool. So it was [00:21:00] based off the fact that you were single.

Sataira Douglas: Single, right? Yeah. I had single and I didn't have any kids. But regardless, I don't care if it was, I don't care if I was the only one who could afford to fly to Paris every year.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: You're not gonna tell me. I work harder when there's a pay scale that determines how we work and we're all equal.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um. So just, I mean, a lot of little things. I honestly, if I could go back and name every microaggression she did. But by, I will tell you, by September, maybe October of that year, I had already decided I was gonna quit.

I was like, I'm done. I, um, because what I will tell you as a person is I had just either I was 25 or 24, um, I was a couple months shy of graduating with a master's. Um, I had purchased my own home and I was going home and I literally was staying in my bed. Like I

crying. I was driving to work, crying. I, I still [00:22:00] talk to a student from there. She's turning 18. Yes. And she, I remember when you were crying, I remember like, your face and say, I'm fine. I'm fine. Um, and it was just draining. It was killing me to go there. So the first thing I did was like, kind of resort to my own little bubble, right?

Like I just withdrew. Because the problem I had with that school is the other teachers, well, prior to me starting to talk about my treatment, because sometimes I think as teachers or as people, when you're getting treated bad, especially minorities, we just keep to ourselves. Yep. We don't start telling other people.

Sure.

Gerarado: Um,

Sataira Douglas: but the moment I start telling other people, they're like, oh, this is her. This, this is how she treats people. Like, you know, this is, she treated so and so like this. And so then again, some of the times she was treating me like this in front of my colleagues. Right.

Kevin Adams: Yep. Like,

Sataira Douglas: um, she marked me down professionally.

She said I was not collaborative, even though I still was pulling my weight, I was making copies. I was the one who's, I was doing all the planning, right? Yep,

Kevin Adams: yep, yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, she marked me down on it and then when I told my colleague, um. And I was like, Hey, like you don't agree with this? And she was like, no, it's not true.

And I was like, well, did she mark you down? Because if we're not effective [00:23:00] as a team, then mark us all down. Right? Because that's what if like collaboration isn't a one person thing. Like I can't make or break the collaboration of a team of three people.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent.

Sataira Douglas: So, um, my teammate was like, oh, I, you know, I don't really wanna say anything and you're always the one who like, you know, questions things and I'm like, I one rarely question anything.

Two, what is wrong with questioning? Like, what is wrong with saying explain more? Clarify. Isn't those the exact same skills we tell our kids to do?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. Well you. So were you the one of, or the only, uh, BIPOC black teacher at the school? How many were there? What was that experience?

Sataira Douglas: Oh, that's one of the things that sewed me on this school is she said like she had a lot of bi bipoc teachers and I can't remember, but I would say there's probably one black or Hispanic teacher on every grade level.

Okay. And then like, uh, like, um. But then I also, I, it's important to, [00:24:00] like, now that I think about hindsight's 2020 is like knowing what position people have, right? Are they new teachers?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, were they there from the beginning? Did they get recruited with you? And then she also mentioned that a lot of the para staff were professional or bipoc in, um, like the daycare.

The guy who ran the daycare was bipoc. But then you start to think about it. Well, the majority of the people who are bipoc don't hold no power. Right? Sure,

Kevin Adams: sure.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Which is very common.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Their voices aren't equal, so, but they were there too. And like that was disheartening too. Like, I just think in general it was disheartening because the colleagues, my colleagues clearly knew how I was being treated.

Right. Like behind doors, they would come and be like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Like, don't leave. Don't, don't leave. Mm-hmm. And then it's like, no, don't tell me, don't leave. Go tell her to stop. Like,

Geraldo: yeah, yeah,

Sataira Douglas: wrong that I deserve this type of like treatment. So fast forward in October, I decided that. I wasn't gonna keep crying like I was like, okay, you're gonna cry, but not, you're not gonna let her see you break you down anymore.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so then I just started [00:25:00] going around like, I decided, like I know people in the district, like you weren't the only one who was impressed by me. Like, chill out, I'm just gonna start going to talk to people who look like me.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep,

Sataira Douglas: sure. How you're treating me. 'cause I wanted advice. Um, and I, we get the most asinine advice from people who look like me.

Some of them would be like, well, just hold your head down.

Dr. Asia Lyons: And I was like,

Sataira Douglas: wow. Wait, wait. Did you hear what she's doing to me? Like, did you hear the excessive, like coming into me and attacking me? Like, you know, I, I don't know. As, I just would say this, like how we, um. How anyone is allowed to treat someone so badly.

Especially when they're working with kids, right? Yeah. Yeah. So if you are pushing teachers to the point where they are driving home and crying, what does it say that they're not treating your kids like this?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Sure.

Sataira Douglas: Right. And what, what example are you sitting for kids when their teachers are constantly crying in front of them?

Yeah. Or their teachers are like, you know, constantly afraid to do things because they're afraid to get rid of go. Like, what environment are [00:26:00] you teaching kids? You're teaching kids? Like I had this parent at that same school who was asking about the bullying problem and I just told her like, if there's bullying at a school, it's a reflection of the staff.

Kevin Adams: That's right.

Sataira Douglas: Sure. That's right. Because kids are learning it. Especially if you're as a parent, you're like, I don't con, I don't condone this, I don't teach this. And you're like, well, you know, even when I, uh, talk to my kid, he still re resorts back to that.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: It is a reflection of the staff. It is 190% reflection of the staff.

So, long story short, I started talking to people, she caught wind of. And of course then that's when she wanted to change her, her tone, right? Then that's when it was like, oh, okay. Like, you know, and I will tell you the only thing she marked me down on was my ability to collaborate. But the comments that she had said with it was just so not in alignment with everything else.

It made no sense. Right?

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so, so by midyear, I had already told my teammates like we we're getting along, but I was like, I'm not coming back. Like this is just ridiculous. At one point, my teammate, the one who told me I could work twice as [00:27:00] harder as her blamed her abortion, uh, her miscarriage on me, her miscarriage on me, but I was the cause of a miscarriage.

Wow. Oh my gosh. That's a lot. Right? Because I am literally now keeping myself at home. I'm not going out anymore. And never once did I de, did I blame my depression or the onset of depression on anyone? Like,

Gerarado: yeah,

Sataira Douglas: because I think that's a lot of power to give someone to say that someone is creating this for you.

Um, so I had decided that, and my principal basically had caught word or whatever. And so she was like, well, I just, you know, I wanna let you know you're one of the best teachers we have. And if you know, next year, um, you can pick the team that you're on. Like you can pick whatever grade level you're on and you can pick your teammates.

And it's crazy because just a minute ago you said, I couldn't collaborate, I wasn't good. I'm not coachable, but now I get to pick my team and I get to pick the grade level.

Dr. Asia Lyons: And, and that's interesting amount of power that she just decides to wield to you. Uh, I've never heard of anything like that, just to say like, whatever you wanna do, [00:28:00] however you, you wanna do this.

Like, that's interesting.

Sataira Douglas: Well, I also think like, you know, they're not stupid, right? Like, she, for a while she knew, she kept me in a place where I was just, uh, like internally beating myself up. But when she knew she was catching word that I was going, 'cause I mean, when I tell you I was going up, like I was going as far as I could, like, um, at the time I think we had a Hispanic woman who rent our culturally.

Diverse program. Yeah. And that I was in her office like, so when I tell you I was like, well we ain't gonna keep playing these games. So I knew she knew she was catching word.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Like, Hey, your employees are having meetings, like private meetings constantly with these people. And so I think that was not, I don't think she truly meant it right.

Like I don't think she truly cared if I got the best of the best team and got to pick him. I think she was trying to look out for herself because

Dr. Asia Lyons: Sure, of course. Of course.

Sataira Douglas: Naively as a person of color and just as a person, a young teacher, I didn't even go to the union and that's where I should have went.

Right? Yeah. I should have went to the union. I should have went back to my contract. I should have been [00:29:00] documenting it. And lucky for her, I didn't. Right. Yeah. So lucky because she didn't catch a case since. Same with Cherry Creek, they didn't catch a case because I wasn't using my skills. Right. Like I wasn't using my skills, I was was resorting.

So I ended up quitting that school. Long story short, um, and it sucked because I had kids whose parents who were like, Hey, I want my kid in your class next year. Like, you know, and the few minor kids, like the few of them who had minorities, even parents, biracial parents, like a white mom. I had her biracial daughter and she was like, I want my son in your class.

And so I didn't, um, just 'cause I didn't wanna break anyone's heart. I do think as teachers, they guilt us into staying at the places.

Kevin Adams: Yeah, they do. You say that, say that.

Sataira Douglas: And so I didn't tell anyone. I told my boss, I told everyone the last day before the last day of school. The second to last day, I was like, Hey, y'all ain't coming back.

Sorry. Um, and so that was like the starting to my breaking point of realizing that one teaching wasn't for me, but this wasn't even just like, that was the big experience in Cherry Creek, but like, I heard comments like, [00:30:00] um, we had a little boy come to our school for the first time, his dad brought him and it was like, well, where's his mom?

She's probably in jail, right? This is a black kid. And who, who are you to say that his mom could be dead? Like his mom could have cancer? Who knows?

Kevin Adams: Right off the bat, the, that's the first thing that you hear and that's what gets to you. That's the stuff. Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: And then just all kinds of things. So like when I say that was like the breaking point in Cherokee Creek, I had a lot of experiences, right?

I had a lot of times where, um, people would just be like, when I first started at the school, I did like, I remember the teachers being like, well, we don't want you to take our job. What? First of all, I'm straight out of college. Second of all, you have a contract, like your job.

Dr. Asia Lyons: You already have a job. Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. And so even if I come out here, come up here and out show you and a Beyonce, this place, I can't take your job. And if I did, then that means it was never for you. And when I, that's

Kevin Adams: right.

Sataira Douglas: When I switched schools, like I just remember people think tell me, oh, you think you're too good to be working with us?

And it's like, no, you take better [00:31:00] opportunities. People like, generally like, I don't know. But I, it was a lot of things that was my breaking point in Cherry Creek, but then I moved to DPS and DPS is another little ride Uhhuh.

Dr. Asia Lyons: So I have a question. So all this is happening when, in that year that you were at the school, before you left the district, who did you talk to about this?

In your family? Did you talk to this with, you know, uh, siblings, parents, cousins, best friends, and like, what was their experience? How did, what advice did they give you, if any?

Sataira Douglas: Um, so I think my friends generally, um, even those who worked in the district, uh, and the person who actually got me in that position, I'm not gonna say she got me in that position, that's a lot of power on her.

Um, but she's the one who helped connect us, right? Um, they were just like, okay, well switch schools, right? Like even my old principal, like switch schools, he was like, don't leave teaching forever. He's like, switch schools. And I'm just like, no. I like, literally, I'll tell you guys, like, I have never, like when you're like, darn, I should be so happy with my life.

Everything is going the way [00:32:00] I should. I've accomplished everything I thought I would. But I'm depressed and I don't wanna be up the next day. And that's when I realized I need to walk away. My family, same thing. They didn't want me to walk away. They, they think I'm an amazing teacher. Even now when I'm talking about leaving Denver public schools, they're like, don't walk away.

Um, but the one thing my family did say is like, they're like, well that's like, you know, that's what happens, you know? Um, some of them were kind of like, dismiss it because as black people, we've experienced it so much. Mm-hmm. Um. We experience so much of this that sometimes we normalize it and then when our kids bring it to us, we're like, well, you know, that's what's supposed to happen.

Like

Dr. Asia Lyons: Sure,

Kevin Adams: yep.

Dr. Asia Lyons: At least you're not a slave. At least you

Kevin Adams: Jim

Dr. Asia Lyons: Crow. Like,

Kevin Adams: no, that's what we raised with. It's like, oh

Dr. Asia Lyons: yeah,

Kevin Adams: well, you know, it could be worse. So, so just keep your head down because mm-hmm. That's, you know, what they'll do to us.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, exactly. You should be grateful. That's a good school district.

You should be grateful. You're making more money than I ever made. You should be grateful. You should be. [00:33:00]

Sataira Douglas: Oh, absolutely.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yes. Yes.

Sataira Douglas: And, but I did have, like, one friend, he also, like, he's the reason he helped talk to me into going to that school, like when I was worried about it and he was like, leave. He was just like, leave, if you're not happy, he's like, you're, you're 25.

Like, who's not happy at 25 with everything you have?

Kevin Adams: Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: And he was like, leave. He was like, because then there's other schools like why stay in a toxic work environment? And it wasn't the last time I was in Cherry Creek, I ended up going back to Cherry Creek after I gotten sick. Um, so I gotten sick in 2015.

In 2016, I went back to sub, um, as a long-term sub, and I, uh, quit mid-year in that position. And I don't regret it because I had walked in. So I will tell you, I naturally am a quiet, uh, keep to myself person. I think I navigate the work environment like a man. Like, I'm like, this is my job. Like, don't ask me about my homie.

Don't, none of that stuff. Um, and so then, um, when I went in, I had told them like I was not even a year out of the hospital, [00:34:00] so I told them like, my doctor's appointments are important, my pt, my ot, UI mean, I was still going through basically, I still was very sick, just wanting to work. Um. And so I had told them that came first, but I wanted something to distract me.

Sure. And so I ended up working for them and I actually loved it. It was the first time I had be lived in the commu, I lived in my community school. Yeah. So I was working for the school up the street. And so I loved, loved, loved it because I could walk down the street and see like Ruth Ann, right. And see so and so across the street.

Um. But what happened is, is like my colleagues again, oh, she's, you know, she doesn't wanna talk and like literal do they know, and this is one thing that people need to realize is people could be dying, like literally in their life, dying, going through depression. Because at that point, like before, it was just me thinking I had depression, but this point I was actually diagnosed with depression.

They knew why I was sick. Right? Yeah. They knew everything. And so, of course I'm keeping to myself, and of course like I'm, I'm withdrawing because I'm [00:35:00] starting to be overwhelmed, like,

Kevin Adams: yep.

Sataira Douglas: By life, I'm overwhelmed by my personal life. I'm overwhelmed by now working four hours. So at some point they switch my hours against my will.

Like they tell me I'm not gonna teach fourth grade, cool, whatever. And my principal is like, she gives me a grade evaluation. She's like, I need you to sign this contract. And remember, I was only supposed to be long-term sub. I took it for that reason. Like, because as you can step away, like as the sub, I can be like, oh, can't come today.

But as a teacher, it's a little bit more of a, like you're it's a contract

Dr. Asia Lyons: Commitment. Yeah.

Geraldo: Commitment.

Sataira Douglas: And I didn't want that commitment. And so I told her, I was like, no, I'm not gonna sign it. Um, and so when she switched my hours, because if you've ever been in the medical field, you scheduled appointments six months out.

So I'm not scheduling my appointment for tomorrow. Tomorrow, like today. That was scheduled six months ago.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: And so it got to the point where she was now making me take time all the time to go to appointments. And I'm like, well, you do realize if you never changed my hour, this would never be a conflict.

Right? Mm-hmm. If you change my hours, this would not be a [00:36:00] conflict. Um, and I remember getting hospitalized and her reaction to it, and just like her whole tone and even like the questions I got from my colleagues, like, what makes you so moody? I don't know. Maybe the depression pills, but I That's not your business.

Yeah. What makes you think? And that's what. As a teacher of color, I don't know why white women feel like they can ask you these things and why our work environment has made them that comfortable to think That's right. They can ask you this in a workplace. And if I bring that up to my boss, because I did bring it up to my boss, one of my bosses was a friend at the time.

It was like, well, you know, they're just trying to get to know you. No, you're crossing lines. You're crossing lines now. Like that would be like me coming to Kevin and asking you about you and your wife's life in your bedroom. Yeah. Like, no, some things are off limits. It doesn't have to do with my job. And so I ended up quitting after I had get Ho, ho got hospitalized because I was just like, I'm not gonna do this.

I'm not going to miss appointments because she, it was either I missed the appointments or I took the time. [00:37:00] Whatever. And, um, so she made these hurdles for me and so I was, at some point I start missing appointments. So I'm rescheduling, we're talking about like my therapist, like my counselor who's dealing with depression, right?

Who's helping me stay at this job because if she wasn't talking to me before I come to this job, I would've quit a lot sooner. Um, you're physical therapist, your, I mean, you name it, she was making me cancel these appointments and I got to a point where after I got hospitalized I was like, no, I don't have to prove anything.

Um, I'm not gonna make my sister jump through hurdles to call you guys to let you know I've been hospitalized when you knew, when you asked me to work this position, that that's what you were stepping into. So I ended up quitting and since then I can't get hired in Cherry Creek. Yeah. Um, and honestly now I don't wanna go back because how do you treat your employees like that?

Like how do you, but then any other time, right? Like, 'cause districts like to gloat on how they treat people who are sick. Um. And they'll gloat. Like, oh, this one doc teacher was sick and we, we just, [00:38:00] we did so much for them. And it's like, no, you don't, you don't treat all your employees like that. And maybe because I'm a black person, you didn't think I deserved that, but I did.

I deserved grace. I deserved you treating me with respect and respecting boundaries. So that's why I end up leaving Cherry Creek, um, on that

Dr. Asia Lyons: moment. So before we go, any, I know you talked about you moving over to Denver Public Schools and we wanna definitely hear about that, but we wanna take a short break, um, to plug in some information that we need for our podcast.

But this has been really, really interesting. So we really appreciate you like telling your story and sharing all of this with us as a sub and as a, as a teacher, a full-time teacher in multiple schools. And so, yeah. And what you're experiencing. So we really appreciate that.

Kevin Adams: And this still is at the point where you said, I'm completely done with the classroom, right?

Or, or we don't know. We're gonna find out the rest of the story.[00:39:00]

Gerarado: We are deeply grateful for all your support these last few years. Your engagement on social media, your downloads and your enthusiasm have kept us going since we started this two dope adventure nearly five years ago. Right, kid?

Kevin Adams: Yes. Thank you. From the bottom of our hearts for your ongoing support of the content that remixes the conversation about race, power, and education.

We have big hopes and dreams that you have inspired. And with your support, those dreams begin to take shape. In reality, in the coming weeks, you will learn about projects that we can now go forward with because you stepped up.

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You can support these projects by visiting patreon.com/two dope teachers, patrons who join at the two dope level, get [00:40:00] a two Dope Nation sticker. And what's better than stickers? Um, it's designed by local, uh, artist sham. And for a limited time, limited time, the next five, two dope patrons will get a copy of Cornelius Minor's book.

We. Got this. What? What a deal.

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Kevin Adams: Patrons will enjoy special access to us in the form of Ask me Anything threads, throw back old episodes, occasional Zoom meetings, and sneak previews to upcoming work and public appearances. Our upcoming podcast series, the Exit Interview, featuring the brilliant Asian Lions, which highlights the stories of black teachers who are forced out of teaching is only possible because of our patrons.

Gerarado: All right. And I can't wait. I can't wait. It's gonna be so dope. So we asked and you responded. We look forward to growing and learning with you. Let's [00:41:00] remix this conversation on race, power, and education.

Kevin Adams: Alright, we are back with the exit interview and we are talking to Satara Douglas. I'm Kevin Adams. We have Asia Lions.

Dr. Asia Lyons: How you doing?

Kevin Adams: And Satara, before we were left, you, you were telling us about, you know, cherry Creek and your experiences there, and how even after you quit, you went back to sub through all of the, the, your health issues, the hospitalizations.

And then even after that you said, I'm not done with this. I still want to be an educator. I'm headed not from Cherry Creek, but to the wonderful school district notice Denver Public Schools. Tell us

Dr. Asia Lyons: about you sound, you sound like you may be working at Denver, folks.

Kevin Adams: I mean, I, I, I, you know, well, I'll just hold on.[00:42:00]

Can I give just some full transparency because this is like very full circle, I think. Mm-hmm. Like everything in life. So my first job that I ever applied for was at Overland High School. And so if you guys know, like this was right after, uh, there was this incident with Jay Benish who was recorded talking about George Bush, you know, and I was going in as a critical young, critical pedagogist ready to, you know, teach about, you know, the Black Panthers and Marxism and all sorts of radical stuff.

And I got hired, I went through the whole process in Cherry Creek, and, um, you guys probably know this Cherry Creek had, like, I had like a double interview process. So first like the interview committee, and then I had to go, um, interview with, uh, the principal, um, which, um, was at the time, um, uh, why can't I think of his name?

John. John? What? Well, oh my gosh. His wife. Oh my gosh, I can't believe I, I'm having a, a name, uh, pause. It's the speaker pro timour [00:43:00] of the house. Colorado Asia. You know her? Oh

Dr. Asia Lyons: yeah.

Kevin Adams: Oh my gosh. Why can't I think of it? Okay,

Dr. Asia Lyons: gimme a second. You go ahead.

Kevin Adams: I'll think of it. Okay. So, but anyway, so I get hired by the job.

I, oh my gosh. It's a friend of the family. I can't believe, I can't think of her name or their name. Uh, but so I, I get interviewed, go through the whole process, and Cherry Creek schools informed me that they, I get a call from Human Resources. I think I'm hired, right? I'm, I'm like, this is my first job.

First job ever. And, uh, they call me up and they tell me, well, this is human resources, uh, because you said you had a, uh, um, a. A marijuana possession ticket in the past, we can no longer hire you. 'cause Cherry Creek School has a zero tolerance policy towards any sort of drug offense. Right. And this is a misdemeanor offense, it was not a felony offense, but they would not hire me Right.

For this because of this. She's like, I, I heard you were a great candidate. And so thus, that's how I end up looking for jobs in Denver Public [00:44:00] schools. So like, it's, it's very full circle. So I'm always curious like how someone, because to me, like at, at that point I was like Cherry Creek, that was where I was headed.

But then I ended up in Denver and I've stayed in Denver Public Schools for 15 years for whatever that means. I don't know, I don't know what it says about my mental health and stability. But How did you make that transition from Cherry Creek to Denver Public Schools after all of those other experiences that you had had?

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. So again, like I, I briefly mentioned in April, 2015, the year I decided to quit.

Kevin Adams: Oh, can I pause you? John Buckner? John Buckner. There it is.

Dr. Asia Lyons: I was just gonna say it.

Kevin Adams: Say that. Alright. John Buckner. Sorry. Dr. Buckner. Ms. Buckner. Speaker pro, temp port. Go ahead. Yes, there you go. I was

Dr. Asia Lyons: just gonna say that. Go ahead.

Sataira Douglas: There's nothing worse than when you can't think of something.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yes.

Sataira Douglas: Um, so again, as I said in April, 2015, I got sick. Um, and not to go [00:45:00] like into the details, but I was really, really sick, like hospitalized for six months. Um, and then all the rehab and everything that you deal with afterwards. Um, so I started in Cherry Creek, left Cherry Creek.

Um, and then I wanted a job, right? I needed stability, I needed something to get me going, and I knew I also needed something to make me feel good, right? Like I just was in a, like a down hole and teaching was it right? I knew teaching could bring me out of it. So I ended up actually applying for Aurora Public Schools first.

Um, got a job there. Um, and the reason why I started looking at Aurora Public Schools in DPS versus going back to Cherry Creek one because I knew I didn't leave Cherry Creek on a good note. And, um, cherry Creek, just like all school districts are phenomenal at blackballing their teachers, right? So if you don't leave on their accord and when they want you to accord and you don't leave with grace and bowing down, um, even though I was a long term sub, I knew that that was gonna happen.

So, um, I was also looking for a very specific medical insurance, so that's why I ended up in Aurora Public Schools. Um, [00:46:00] and so I started at this school in Aurora Public Schools, probably there for maybe a month. And I ended up quitting because, um, they had advertised that they give two insurances. And unfortunately in the education world there's a lot of one insurance companies.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so a month into it, like I'm starting to get ready for my insurance, find out it's not the insurance provider I want.

Kevin Adams: Yes.

Sataira Douglas: Um. And when I got hired there, I was working under a black supervisor and she also gave microaggressions too. I re remember telling her that like, when I was getting ready to quit, I was just like, you know, I don't wanna quit on you, but, um, I need my medical insurance.

Right. I need my doctors. Like my personal life was way more important than my professional life.

Geraldo: Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: Moving forward. Um, and she was like, well, she was like, well, I just don't want you to think you're special. You are not the only one going through this. And I'm like, excuse me, like lady, I dunno who you, and I told her, I said, um, sorry.

Uh, being hospitalized for six months will make anyone realize they're not special. Right. Like, yeah,

Geraldo: yeah.

Sataira Douglas: On a ICU bed, um, [00:47:00] with six, four nurses, but yet they're constantly leaving me to go help other people. I, I think I know what not being special is, so I ended up leaving. Um, that school. And then that's when I started looking at Denver Public School District.

Um, and I started off as a sub in Denver Public School District One. 'cause I kind of just wanted my own schedule, right? Like I had a horrible experience going back into the education the first two tries. So I just wanted my own schedule. Um, two, I just wasn't sure like that. That's really what I wanted to immerse myself back into, right?

Like, I wasn't, like, I knew teaching brought me joy, but it was like, does it bring you this much joy? Um, so I ended up working at a school and I'll name it because if you, I still am employed there. Yeah. Green Valley Elementary. Uh, so I worked in Green Valley. And Green Valley is a suburb of Denver. I think I would call it a suburb of Denver.

A very minority, um, based suburb. Suburb. If you sub. Suburb, if you've ever like, um, know anything about the community is Green Valley was one [00:48:00] of the first black and brown suburbs, um, in Denver. And it was one of the best school districts or best schools, right? Like it was well known black and brown people wanted their kids there.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, so I started subbing all over DPS in the subbing experience was just interesting. Um, for reals, for real. Like,

Dr. Asia Lyons: yeah, we

Sataira Douglas: talk about seeing it inequities when you go from one side of the school, school district to the other side. But I ended up falling in love with the school that I'm at now. Um, mainly because I liked, um, the community.

I ended up moving into the community as well and so moving in Oh wow. For that. Um, and then I also, um, at the time I thought I loved my principal, my former principal. Um, he provided a lot of structure and. So it just felt relaxed. But what I didn't realize is like, of course when you're a sub, they treat you really well.

Right? When you're a sub, they're always thankful. They, they praise you for you saying. Um, and so really looking back, I didn't realize like how much they were just giving me the normal treatment of a sub. Like they weren't [00:49:00] really treating me better than anyone. They weren't treating me well. They were just doing what they do to subs, like making them come back.

And especially 'cause, um, green Valley is on the side of the district. It's so far from the central part of the district, so most people don't even wanna come out here to sub. Oh, I

Dr. Asia Lyons: see. Okay.

Sataira Douglas: Yep, yep, yep. So, you know, like if you find someone who wants to come back, you're gonna treat someone.

Kevin Adams: It's a high need.

Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so then I ended up getting hired, um, as I think by, after I started there in November, sub subbing around the school district. I did one long-term sub position. For a teacher. And then by I think April, may, the teacher quit. So a third grade teacher flat out quick. And so the principal called me and asked me would I take it.

Um, and by this time we would already start talking about like a position. Um, not only was I talking about it with him, I was talking about it with another black principal and Montbello. And she actually offered me a position first, a full-time position. Mm-hmm. But at the time, I didn't want that. So she was [00:50:00] like, Hey, go to this principal, see what he can do for you.

Um, and so I tell him like, Hey, I want this position. He was like, I don't think I have a part-time, but would you like anything else? And I was like, well, ideally part-time is what I want, but you know, I need a job so I'll take this position. So we kind of, I had, I think I had already done the interview before.

They asked me to do long-term sub. Um, and so I had gotten the fourth grade position. The long-term sub was in third. And this gets me because I just don't understand how you can treat people this way. So I get the third grade position. Um, the lady who runs finances comes to me and says, Hey, do you want us to sign a contract?

Like, do you wanna now like, just sign a teacher contract for this one month of school and you'll get paid during the summer and um, but contract may require you to stay in third grade. And I'm like, cool. You know, like, whatcha talking about, do I wanna get paid over the summer as a teacher? Do I wanna get teacher's salary?

Like yeah, that makes a lot more sense to me.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: But the principal was like really gone home and putting me in fourth grade because the [00:51:00] third graders who I was working with at the time were very, very rambunctious kids. Very, very rambunctious kids. And so he wanted me in fourth grade because they needed a strong teacher in fourth grade.

Yeah. Someone class.

Dr. Asia Lyons: So like looping up.

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. And so I, I offered that right? Asia, I was like, well, can I sign the contract for third grade and then loop up with the kids like. Sounds like it solves everyone's problem. I get paid, you get to loop up. Um, and he was just like, no, no, no, no. And you know, and plus we don't want anyone to think that I'm treating you better 'cause you're black.

Uh, okay. Like, you know, DPS like, let me get you all the way together. You hire people with no teaching background degrees. Right. You hire people who don't even come outta teacher prep programs and nothing wrong with that. Right. Nothing wrong with

Kevin Adams: that. Yep, yep, yep.

Sataira Douglas: But I have two degrees in teaching and I have been teaching in one of the best districts that people compare you to all the time.

Kevin Adams: Yes.

Sataira Douglas: Don't ever downplay my qualifications. I am qualified for that position. Right. And so like that was strike one. And honestly then I should have never even came back the next year for [00:52:00] reals frills. Why You give people chances when they disrespect you. Makes no sense.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: And so like, and I remember that when he said it, like I had like gone to people who worked with me at the time and I'm crying and they're consoling me and I'm just like, I don't know how to address it.

And back then, like at the time I was like, just go tell him. Like go tell him. But then I was just like, be professional. Right? You don't know.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. What does that mean? Be professional, right? Yeah. We say be professional. That means don't, don't stand up for ourselves. Don't speak our truth. Right? Yeah. That and that's that that interesting space where what does be professional mean?

And for, for black educators, for black women especially, we talk about being professional. All that comes with

Kevin Adams: that. That's

Dr. Asia Lyons: right. That's right. Right. Because it is like, well, because they think that we have attitude because they think that we blah, blah going on. That's right. On and on. Which really shuts down some conversation that should be happening.

That's just not happening all under the guise of professionalism. Be

Kevin Adams: professional

Dr. Asia Lyons: and really it's whiteness and white

Kevin Adams: supremacy be white. Yeah. That's what we've always said. Professionalism is syn synonym for white.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yes, [00:53:00] exactly.

Sataira Douglas: That's all it was, is basically I was telling myself, don't overreact. Like he, he didn't mean it that way.

Like, be white girl. Mm.

Kevin Adams: Yep, yep, yep.

Sataira Douglas: And so that was like strike one. Right. And then I also had parents, so I'm, I'm gonna tell you, and I don't even, I think I fell in love with the community for us, for us. Like I had this parent come in, um, and I still remember, she's so cool. Um, and she sat in my classroom because I'm sure at this point she's tired, right?

Yeah. Like her teacher just quit. So she sat in my classroom and she left and she was just, she went and told 'em and she was like, that's the teacher. Like I want her, y'all keep her here. Yeah. And she was a black teacher, right? A black parent. So that was cool. I also had this black parent, this is all in the long term steps to me, who was like, oh, you're such a good teacher.

She was like, you're a good teacher, but you will not be here longer than three years. And I remember telling her like, girl, this is not my first rodeo show. Like, I've already done this. I've worked in a very white district. I can handle this district or whatever. Um, so fast forward. I'm still in the long term sub position.

He says that to me. I can't, he did say something else out of pocket. I can't remember what it was, but [00:54:00] it was out of pocket.

Geraldo: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so I had this Hispanic lady comes to me, right? And so at this point, I, I'm a teacher. They know I actually know how to teach, but they provided me with nothing. Right? No curriculum, no anything.

They literally were like, just keep the kids cool. Like, just, just keep cool. So I'm in there babysitting, right? And you ain't gotta tell me twice. You want me to keep 'em cool? Kids chill, like, yep,

Kevin Adams: yep, yep.

Sataira Douglas: I still was teaching, even though they didn't tell me what to teach, they didn't gimme curriculum. I still was teaching, but I'm like, I'm gonna keep you cool.

So like, if that means we get to play on a computer game for a day, whatever, like, keeping you cool is keeping you cool. So I was, it was during guided reading, but I remember I had asked for this stuff. So I had literally asked, what is the curriculum? Where's the data so I can run a classroom? Um, and so during guided reading, they told me I didn't have to do it.

That's the male principal. He's black. And so then this Latina comes to me and she's like, what do you think you're doing? Who do you think you are? You aren't teaching. Why are the kids on the computer? I mean, like when I say, I was like, uh, excuse me, you cannot check me when I'm doing what my, the boss.

Yeah. [00:55:00] Like, I'm literally doing what's I'm supposed to be doing. And if you want me to teach, then you can provide me with the materials. You're supposed to be the person on top of literacy. So if you want me to be doing guided reading groups and you bring me the curriculum, you bring me the data already done for me and I'll run groups.

So like, that was my introduction to this school, which, you know, honestly, you really should pay attention to science and how people treat you. Um, because it did not get. Better at all. Right. It's

Dr. Asia Lyons: interesting. I'm sorry to cut you off. It's so interesting because as you're told this story about the way you're being treated by the principal and, and by the literacy coach, I'm also thinking at the same time, like the students, you've been, the sub, the students don't have curriculum, right?

So time is going by where students aren't getting the materials and the learning that they need, um, to be successful. So as even if they go into fourth, fifth, sixth grade, if you don't have what you need to support them in the way that they need to be supported, this [00:56:00] is what, this is where we're seeing the access gap, right?

Yep. Where it's just like,

Kevin Adams: yep. Right.

Dr. Asia Lyons: It's not the student. It's not the student at all. It is all the things that surround the student and in this case, all things that surround the educator that stops success for our students from happening, and that keeps our educators. Not staying into a school. That's right.

Not staying employed in a district. 'cause they just need to, they need for their own mental health to leave.

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. And you know, to give the last, the other teacher, I don't know why she quit, that's not my business, but to give her credit like that, that was group of kids, was a challenging group of kids because they were all very, um, like very rambunctious, very high personality in one group, right?

Kevin Adams: Yep. Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: I will tell you that, um, when I wasn't a sub, when I wasn't a long-term sub, I got a lot of help, right. So if I called them and was like, Hey, little, uh, John is acting up, they would come get little John. But the moment I got into long-term sub, it was like, mm, sorry, that phone is ringing. Or, you know, how about you handle [00:57:00] it?

Kevin Adams: Mm.

Sataira Douglas: So that was a tough position to be in. But I still like the kids. I, I moved up the next year. Um, and so then moving on, like the things I've experienced so far, um, thus far up to where I am now is just everything being called, uh, aggressive, outright aggressive. Mm-hmm. Uh, for standing and having boundaries, right?

For telling a, a literacy teacher that she can't come pull a kid during instruction. Um, so I got caught aggressive for that. Um. My principal, oh, uh, February, 2018 when the after the strike happened. Yeah.

Kevin Adams: Yep. Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Um, someone broke into my room, like magically my room was the only one I got broken into. Hmm.

Everything got flooded and not a single thing got replaced. They literally threw pictures of my mom, my sister, I mean, you know, like precious things.

Kevin Adams: Yes, yes.

Sataira Douglas: Things like things that I brought into the school, threw it away. And then the, uh, like finance lady had the nerve to accuse me of [00:58:00] taking stuff out of the school.

She was like, well, we don't know what you've taken outta the school. And I'm like, what do you mean? Because when I came in, the day that the flood happened, there was people taking inventory, not only taking inventory, they were taking pictures. So there's no confusion. And y'all have cameras like,

Kevin Adams: yep,

Sataira Douglas: I'm sorry, I'm not that broke where I need y'all to replace things I don't need y'all to replace.

Kevin Adams: Yeah. Right.

Sataira Douglas: So they never replaced that. They did not replace a single student's stuff. Um, they did not even support me or the other teacher in talking to our kids. So we had kids breaking down because the kids lost all their stuff.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: They didn't support us with any of that. And I called them on their bluff.

I literally did. And I said, you know, if this would've been a white school in DPS one, y'all would've replaced all that stuff. It wouldn't have been a question. No one would've asked for donation. Oh. Parents wouldn't have the thought twice about it. And you would've brought in someone to talk to these kids about losing their stuff.

Kevin Adams: That's right.

Sataira Douglas: Um, so like, I think that's when I started to rub them wrong, right? Because now I'm just now and now I'm like teed off or whatever.

Kevin Adams: Yep, yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, to last year I get this evaluation and [00:59:00] um, basically throughout the year, my co supervisor, who was white, a white woman, um, we were real, real cool, right?

Real cool. Um, up until the point where I had accusations by, um, paraprofessionals, other colleagues saying that I was sleeping with the custodial staff in school, um, and that they had caught me. No, y'all, I'm not even joking. You cannot.

Kevin Adams: Oh my God.

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. Saying that I was sleeping with the custodial staff and that they were catching us and how they knew for sure is they were catching us come out the room with the students and fixing ourselves.

So me as a person who's a professional, I'm thinking because this was now, this conversation was happening outside of the school ground.

Kevin Adams: Yes.

Sataira Douglas: So I'm like, let me address this with my, my administrator so that it gets snipped in the butt. And then also, I don't want accusations that I'm doing it. I don't want anyone to try to look at my license.

None of that stuff.

Kevin Adams: Absolutely. It. That's serious. That's serious to us.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. That is, that's

Kevin Adams: a heck of an

Dr. Asia Lyons: accusation like that to have on Wow. 'cause you're fixing your clothes.

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. And [01:00:00] so then, um. So then I, uh, whew. So then I bring it to my administrator. I'm embarrassed. I'm like, I hate to tell you this, but this is what's been said.

And so he, at the first was like, okay, this sounds like harassment. You can handle it. And I'm like, well, I don't want anyone to lose their job. Right. Like, that's just not the point.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: But I do think it needs to be clear that professionalism needs to happen. Right? That's

Kevin Adams: right. You need

Sataira Douglas: to address it and tell them it needs to get nipped in the butt because if a parent catches one of this rumor, it could be game over for me.

Yeah. Like, and I told them, I was like, regardless of whether you want to investigate me, you would have to, you would have to investigate it. Mm-hmm. Because I'm neglecting children to be having intercourse in a classroom.

Kevin Adams: Yeah. Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: And so that's when my white, uh, my white supervisor and I like, kind of fell out because I kind of seen the way she was addressing it.

So she was like laughing about it and she's like encouraging me like, this is a administrator. She's now the principal of this school. She's encouraging me to antagonize these people. She was like, well, why don't you just go tell them? Like they just wish they could have him and like, and [01:01:00] joking about it and it's like, no, this is a serious manner.

Yeah. And I literally told her, I said, if I were to do that, 'cause I'm like, I'm petty. You don't know me. Yep. I'm super petty. I'll do it right. Like I will be super petty. I said, but if I were to do that, what would have happened was is then they would've been bringing it to you and now I would've been on the defense.

Dr. Asia Lyons: That's

Sataira Douglas: right. And I would've been explaining myself. And so they, how they handled the harassment cases, they investigated, well, they didn't even handle a harassment case they brought in. My colleague who's the one who heard it and they brought in the other people. But as they're doing this, I'm telling them like I am literally feeling the passive aggressive behavior from these four girls who are now in trouble.

Right?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: I'm pulling the jabs, I'm feeling the looks, I'm feeling the talking behind my back. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, it's too much. And one of the girls worked in my classroom and so I'm like, look, I don't want anyone to get in trouble, but what I do want is her to be pulled outta my classroom. Yeah. I was like, because I can't respect her.

There is no respect. Respect has gone out the window when you think you can spread a rumor about me. Right. And so there he, at first he was [01:02:00] like, okay. And then it came up, I ended up having a HR and they were like, no, we can't like pull her out of the classroom because of hearsay. Well, y'all would've fired me on some hearsay.

Y'all would've been investigating me and my license on some hearsay, but you can't pull her out. And I'm like, listen. And they're like, but she serves your students. She serves the students at my direction. So if I say I don't want her serving my students because I tell her what to do. I'm not trying to make it seem like we're boss, but that's how DPS is run.

Yep. Like the classroom teacher decides how they use the paraprofessional.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: So if I tell her I don't want you to work with my kids, then that means that's what I want. Or if I say, look, I want you to work with them, but pull them outside of my classroom so I don't have to see you anymore. Um, and so it got like, it went all the way up to HR and the HR was like, well it sounds like you want her to get in trouble on hearsay, but you would want yourself to get in trouble in hearsay.

And I'm like, lady, what? I don't know what you don't get. Like what you're saying doesn't make sense. So move

Dr. Asia Lyons: I ask a question.

Sataira Douglas: Go ahead.

Dr. Asia Lyons: I know you mentioned this when you were, [01:03:00] um, in the other district, but. Did you think to, I, I'm just, first of all, I'm just really shocked and I don't, but also did, like, was the union involved in any of this?

Had you decided not to use, utilize the Union? What was going on there?

Sataira Douglas: So I didn't use the union, um, at the time. Like I didn't join. Um, okay, so backstory. So in Cherry Creek, the union is tied into the district, right? Like they, they have an office in the district. Um, and I remember meeting the union president and he'd be like, oh, I'm gonna go have lunch with the superintendent.

And to me it was like a conflict of interest because when I very first started my teaching career, it was in Texas. And the union is like a third party. Like they don't work for the districts. It's truly, and so I, when I worked in Cherry Creek, I decided I didn't wanna be a part of a union because unions do sometimes work in cahoots with the district, right?

Mm-hmm. No matter how much they say they don, and I didn't. So when I went into DPS, that's how it started. And so when this had happened, I was having conversations with people, um. But [01:04:00] again, like to me at the time, I was more afraid that they would, because even though like, you know, like the guy had said like, we haven't done anything.

Like, you know, the children are like, no, whatever. There was no evidence found it. I didn't want it to come back and it be a baseless investigation to me. Right? Like I didn't want me to have to even go through trying to prove that I'm not doing that in the classroom. So that's prior to the reason why I didn't get involved and I didn't get anyone involved because my principal at the time had made me believe that he was gonna handle it, right?

Mm-hmm. And my wish was simple. My wish was that they didn't get in trouble. There was no documentation of this.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: She was pulled outta my classroom. I literally was like, you can have her continue working with my kids, but let her work in the library.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: But what happened is, is they ended up pulling her outta my classroom, but then they said, well, it's because, um.

They try to like, they try to blame it on me. Like they pulled her out three months later and was like, well, you requested it. And I'm like, I requested that three months ago, so don't play me and say, now she's not in [01:05:00] my classroom. What I know happened is she mentioned how uncomfortable it was because it's uncomfortable.

Right? Like, she knows. I went and told, um, our boss on her and I'm not speaking to you. Yep. Like, there's no need to speak because you, you crossed that line and so take the students and go do what you need to do and don't speak. Right?

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, so moving forward, so I'm now like my boss and I, the white woman and I are now like getting further apart because of how she didn't handle that with professionalism.

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Adams: So now

Sataira Douglas: I'm like distancing myself and so. I ended up in January, like I'm having breakdowns, no. Like having breakdowns all the time in the classroom, outside the classroom because of this. Like my family is starting to hear about it, like they're worried about me. I'm, my sister is amazing. I live with my sister and she's like bringing me food and making me eat because I'm not eating at the house.

Mm-hmm. Whatever. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: And so fast forward to January, um, I end up. Um, so I'm starting to hear all these things, right? So like, now they're accusing me of things like they're accusing me. A student of [01:06:00] mine, I guess picked up the phone and hung up whatever on the office.

Gerarado: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Yeah. And he called me back and they're like, well, yeah, the office says you do this all the time.

Wait, I'm sorry. You cannot make accusations of me. Like, and no, I don't, my students answer the phone and what, what do you want me to do? Like, if they hang up on you, they hang up on you. And the, the little girl, like, it was like a big deal. And I like the little girl apologized. She's in tears. Yeah. I'm like, it's not that serious.

She picked up, she said she didn't hear you, you said you didn't hear her let it go. So now they're accusing me of like, teaching my kids this unprofessional behavior. Wow. Which makes this sense, right? Because everyone else gets the phone call. Yeah. Because a lot of times when people call, I'm like, tell 'em I'll call them back, or Sure.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep.

Geraldo: You

Sataira Douglas: know, message. So it wouldn't be like, to me it was like, why would I treat these two people like that? Right. Just two people specifically like that. So moving forward in January. I'm now like at the Brinks of things. I'm literally, I had already started re researching FMLA, um, and so I'm like, no, just stay here for the kids.

Right. Because that's what I realized. Yeah. At [01:07:00] this job I had already been hospitalized twice. Yep. I missed four days and the last four days I had missed, my boss had the nerve to question me, like question me, and then not only question me, oh, that's what he was doing. He would blast it out to the whole staff.

So he would literally put out sat Tara, um, Douglas, absent illness. And I asked, like, I specifically asked, like I said, Hey, like based on like my history, my medical history,

Kevin Adams: yep. Yep.

Sataira Douglas: That I've been hospitalized twice in your job. Um, four days each time and come back the next day, like come back on a Monday after getting outta the hospital on a Sunday.

Um, I'm like, please just don't put that because what the last thing I need is someone at my job to ask me about what's going on.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Trigger emotions, because that's what happened. So I was ho hospitalized a friend of mine's who's nice. It was just like, oh, tell me about it. Broke down. Right. So at this point I'm having all these emotions.

It's January and I, um, one of the teachers down this, the hallway, I can hear him. His student is exploding, right? Yep. You can hear him. [01:08:00] So I step outta my room. I think I had maybe five kids and I like, my kids are right there. I can see them and I step out and I try to go get this kid to walk down the hall with me.

Like, calm down, calm down. Not my job. Mind you? Yep. Yep. Let me do what the teacher who's in between us, does she ignores it. She doesn't ever help. Right?

Gerarado: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: And no one criticizes, but I helped right. Because that's what I would want someone to do for me. And so I, my white supervisor who's a female, comes to me and is like, why aren't you in your room and why aren't you doing this?

You didn't answer your phone again. And I'm like, you know what? I'm sitting here doing your job. If you would answer the phone when he calls you nine times, if you answer the phone when my kids call you. 'cause my kids were starting to call when they heard this.

Geraldo: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: I said I wouldn't have to step in help.

So that day I decided to take FMLA, which they berated me. Like they, I asked again for them not to put it out. They put it out. I mean, I had colleagues, I'm taking FMLA and the FMLA order was for depression, anxiety, and something else. I can't remember.

Kevin Adams: Yeah. [01:09:00]

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so they're now harassing me about lesson plans, which I didn't have to give them.

Mm-hmm. They're also harassing me about, um. Just harassing me in general, just making a loop. They sent out a letter to the community, which I've never heard of them sending out letters to community about someone being gone.

Kevin Adams: No.

Sataira Douglas: Right. And again, remind you, I had told them, please keep my business to my,

Kevin Adams: yeah,

Sataira Douglas: right.

And so then, um, I come back and the day I come back, um, they're already emailing me about evaluating me. Literally, the day I come back, they're like, let's evaluate you. So I like emailed them back and I'm like, Hey, you know, I wanna get my kids back in the routine. I wanna make sure they got instruction.

They had subs, subs were reaching out to me during the, which,

Kevin Adams: which you, you can't do. They can't do that.

Sataira Douglas: Right. Colleagues are reaching out to me. And so I'm calling the HR office and I'm saying like, you guys need to get this under control because this is, you are breaching your con. Like you can't do this.

No one can be calling me or whatever. And so, um, that, so she comes [01:10:00] in, they evaluate me, um, or she gives me my midyear. I mean, when you tell me, I went from what The black supervisor, I went from being, um. Whatever it's called, distinguish in the one below.

Yep,

Kevin Adams: yep, yep.

Sataira Douglas: Now I'm literally approaching, approaching and not meets.

Kevin Adams: Oh my gosh.

Sataira Douglas: And not meets. So the best thing that happened that year, honestly last year was, uh, COVID. Literally that was the best thing. Like, because I was already breaking down, my sister was already seeing it again. Like, literally like, she was just like, oh my gosh, this is not healthy. You just went back and work.

I'm crying in front of like, uh, in front of like, they had me crying in front of, uh, the entire staff and kids during fire drills. Like, just everything. Like, and I, they know that DPS knows I recorded the conversation. She's calling me out about race and I talk about race too much. And this is DPS, right?

Yep, yep, yep. The equity in the school of majority minorities, but whatever. [01:11:00] So in move forward, I, this evaluation went well wrong. I got the union involved, so I finally got the union involved Yes. About time. And the grievance is good, like, uh, so they have to like fix some things or whatever. They ended up clearing up my, um, my evaluation.

Um, but you know what I will tell them, and like I told I'll tell you like I told them, is it's not enough to just go in and clean up your mistakes. Yeah. You go up and realize how much term oil you put me through by writing what you wrote, by allowing your colleagues to, like I had colleagues, they asked colleagues to write letters against me.

God, not colleagues who do not ever make formal complaints, wrote letters against me. For my grievance. What were you gonna say? Asia?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Can I say, you know, I, I know this is our first, our first episode. I am curious to know, as we interview more people, how many folks will be so grateful for, for COVID?

Kevin Adams: Yes.

That's what I was thinking too, because I, I, I think COVID, like, [01:12:00] for, for Bipoc teachers, it was like, thank you. Thank you. Yep. Just, just let me be away from you. Thank you.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep. Yeah. I, I just, I've heard it like just talking to my friends and they're like, I don't, I just don't have to deal, I don't have to see 'em.

I don't have to hear 'em. I don't have to, I don't have to jump through the hoops. I don't have to, like, the racial battle fatigue is toned down so much and it, it's a shame to say I thank God or whomever

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Dr. Asia Lyons: For a pandemic so that I can just be. So I could just kind of just be, so, I just wanted to stop for that quick moment.

Just like recognize, I, you are not the first, I do not believe you'll be the first person. Nope, nope. That we interview or the last You're the first, but you're not the last. Yeah. Yep. Yep. To say that like, I'm so happy for Coronavirus. Um,

Sataira Douglas: which is weird thing, right? Yeah. So to wrap it up, like basically they, the grievance clears up.

The evaluation clears up, but, um, that didn't stop like the [01:13:00] microaggressions, right? I, in the middle of the summer, I had someone call safe to tell, to say that I was bullying adults in a meetings that never happened. Um, I also had my then pro that my supervisor, who's now the principal, um. She ended up getting the job?

Um, yeah, in DPS she ended up getting the principalship and um, I went in to go get things to get my stuff from, um, the school or whatever. And I had recommended a book about, um, or booked her because when we first met that first year or that second year, I had told her like, you know, 'cause she said, well, I didn't think you were friendly 'cause you didn't smile and you didn't always speak.

And I'm like, girl, I'm at my job. Right.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Have, has it ever occurred to you that I'm working. That's it. Walk in these office, these hallways. I got somewhere to go, something to do. And I was like, and don't, like, don't think people aren't smiling at you. Maybe they don't see you. Maybe they like don't have time to do it or whatever.

And so then she, and so I told her like, you know, I just had told her at the beginning of the year, so at the beginning of last school year, that we weren't gonna play the same games that I [01:14:00] played with my, um, the, the year before. You weren't gonna call me aggressive. And I said, and if you wanna call me aggressive, I'm gonna show you aggressive because that's what you want.

Right. You wanna see someone who's aggressive. Mm-hmm. And I said, and I said, if you dare question my ability to collaborate, I'm gonna show you someone who doesn't collaborate, because that's what you need. Right. If you're gonna, if I'm going above and beyond 24 7 and that's not good enough for you, then I'm gonna show you what mediocrity looks.

Kevin Adams: That's right. That's

Sataira Douglas: right. Show you what c teacher looks like. Um. So we had talked too briefly about like, and I told her, I was like, and every time I code switch, or every time I feel like you're being tone policing or being like, I'm just schooling her. She as a principal, y'all, she is now a principal.

She was a, a principal. A resident. Resident principal.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: She didn't know what code switching was. How do you get to that position in a minority school? In

Kevin Adams: that, yeah.

Sataira Douglas: In a minority school like you, I mean, green Valley, we,

Dr. Asia Lyons: we already know the answer to that,

Sataira Douglas: right?

Dr. Asia Lyons: We know how people get into positions of power and not know, just continue to [01:15:00]

Sataira Douglas: a problem.

Right. It's a problem. Especially when it'd be different. She's in dp s at a white school in DPS, she's at DPS and one of the largest minority schools. Right?

Kevin Adams: That's right.

Sataira Douglas: So I had recommended a book to her. Like I actually had reached out to Tasha, Tasha Waldron, who knows a lot about books. And so I said like, Hey, she wants to read about code switching.

Because I told her, I was like, you wanna, you wanna learn? I'll, I'll give you some books. Yep. Look, I had recommended, I think I read recommended too. I think it was white Fragility, and then I'm still here.

Kevin Adams: And

Sataira Douglas: that was back in August, right? Mm-hmm. She didn't get those book in August. She didn't think about 'em in August.

But after my grievance, 'cause my grievance was against her, and after she gets the principalship and after I, it's now this summer, so I've now been called on unsafe to tell she, you know, they had my colleagues say how bad of a person I was. I go in and she just was like, oh yeah, you know, remember that book you recommended me?

And I'm like, what book? And she's like, the book your sister recommended? And I'm like, you don't know my sister. My sister didn't recommend no books. And I was like, well, was that professional [01:16:00] book? And she was like, yeah. And I was like, definitely not my sister. I was like, what was the book? And she was like, the book, I'm still here.

And when I tell you that is a jab, like, because remember she had got the principalship and she wasn't supposed to.

Gerarado: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: And the fact that you're gonna use a culturally relevant book against me. To tell me that you're still here and to bring it up eight months later is so inappropriate.

Geraldo: Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: Can I tell you that is beyond inappropriate and especially because you work with black kids.

The audacity of you to say that, and you said it after Floyd, uh, George Floyd died. Yep.

Geraldo: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Right. And that's when DPS released their whole reason people's statements. And so to me, like I had went to hr, the union had called her out, but they still didn't do nothing about it. Like how do you not address that with her?

And it has gotten progressively worse. Right. I can tell you all the things that have happened this year, they have mentioned that they as white people can't be in a meeting with a black parent because they didn't think she would be taking it wrong. But that same black parent, they thought they might need to call CPS on because little girl's getting molested.

[01:17:00] Um, they also, when I asked for a new supervisor because she was white and she was racist and well not 'cause she was white. Let me not say that. 'cause that's awful. Um, because she was racist, that's why. Yes, yes. She already told me her racist passed the year before. Um, they, she told me no. And she literally tells me, you can do two things.

You can do what you did last year, which is the grievance. Yes. Or you can go to hr. And so I had to go to the union who went to Susanna, like how bad of a district, how bad of a work environment that I have to go to Susanna to get the very

Kevin Adams: top,

Sataira Douglas: change my coach. Like seriously. And then the coach literally told me, listen up, this is all this stuff that's happened this year.

So honestly, like my final straw has just been. All of it. Honestly, I'm just done. Like I, I have decided with myself and, um, because I honestly thought I was gonna work here. My sister, I didn't wanna teach for much longer. I, when I originally came back in 2017, I said three years.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Um, max. Um, but my sister has a 4-year-old and my sister's like, please, please, please just stay in school.

Kevin Adams: Yeah. [01:18:00]

Sataira Douglas: At elementary school, right. Like, I want her protected, like, 'cause my sister hears the story. So my sister, like, you know, they've asked for my niece to come. My sister's like, no way. No way can you go to that school unless you're there. So I originally, that's what I did. And because I love this community, I, I will tell you, I've fallen in love with this community.

The parents, like, I know a lot of people out here. Um, but my final straw is I can't, like I told, I told my boss, I just had this conversation with her last week. How bad of a work environment is it? How toxic is it of a work environment that I'm at my house and I don't wanna come to work.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Mm-hmm.

Kevin Adams: That tells you, that tells you something.

Sataira Douglas: And I said, I am at my house and I feel like you are still doing everything in your power to try to push me out. The microaggressions are still happening, you know, like they're now CCing. I have to jump through hurdles to like go to parent meetings and email everyone. And I'm like, and you aren't treating my white staff like this, my white colleagues, because I know I'm the union rep.

That's why I became the union.

Kevin Adams: Yeah,

Sataira Douglas: yeah. Right. I became the union rep to protect myself and to know more, but I know you're [01:19:00] not treating them like this. 'cause they told me their That's right. I told her, I said, their stress is teaching. My stress is you all, that's my stress. My stress is not teaching. So yeah, that's my final straw.

Like I can't for sure say I am. I hope. And I, I feel like it's in my plans to lead teaching this year.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yep. But

Sataira Douglas: if I don't leave teaching, what I have assured my principal this year is I will not go back to her school. That's right. I will switch schools and I will not go back to her school and work in that environment anymore.

Dr. Asia Lyons: You know, I, first of all, again, I've said this already, I really appreciate your story. Yes. And I also, I'm curious to know, as you're thinking about leaving, do you know what you would like to do outside the classroom?

Sataira Douglas: Um, uh, good question. Asia. Um, I think last year, the first two years when I was ready to leave, I was really specific.

I wanted to do like advocacy, um, 'cause I do want to teach, one thing I have learned about working in two [01:20:00] vastly dis different districts is, um, my parents in Cherry Creek, they got their principal out by their voice. Right. They literally got the principal to. Get a new position in the district, um, which means they got what they wanted.

Whereas these parents I work with now, they can come in with valid concerns. They can come in and they get dismissed every time. Um, and so I wanted to go into advocacy. I really wanted to teach, um, parents out here how to go into schools and own them because they pay for them. So they should own them.

They should walk in there like, white ladies walk into grocery. That's

Kevin Adams: right. That's right.

Sataira Douglas: Um, and so that's what I wanted to do. Um, I don't know, Asia, there's a million things I wanna do, but honestly, I would tell you at this point, I just wanna get outta teaching. I, I just want to get outta teaching. It's, I literally, like I told my boss this year, I can't sit back and watch how you one treat bipoc adults and think that you don't treat our kids the same way.

Right. Like, I have fourth graders who come to me last year and was like, Ms. Douglas, but she's racist. She's only doing this to [01:21:00] me. Or even the male principal who's black, he's only checking, checking me like this. Right. Um. I know it's true, right? And I can't sit back and watch it happen and knowing that, um, I'm not, I can't break it apart, right?

Like, and yes, it sucks because I can be the shield for my kids. Um, but how many times can you take bullets before you realize this isn't what you wanna do anymore?

Dr. Asia Lyons: That's right. And, and that, and that, that this whole time you're telling your story, I keep thinking about the term invisible labor, right? So while you're going through all these things and you're emailing folks, and you're going to HR, and you're filing things, and you're recording conversations, and you're going and checking into the hospital, getting supports.

All that time, your colleagues, your white colleagues are just going to work.

Kevin Adams: They're going at home. They're

Dr. Asia Lyons: going to work and going home. Right.

Kevin Adams: Hanging out at the park, doing yoga, doing, doing whatever it is.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Right? Right. Walking away

Kevin Adams: at three 30 and never worried about until they get back.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Exactly. And so you've really [01:22:00] taught double the years and you've experienced double the years of TR like trauma.

Um. So I could, I, I can see, and I can hear and feel that like, doesn't really matter what, what I do at this point, but like that mental freedom is what's like, I can only imagine, I don't want to speak on your behalf, but the mental freedom, the stability to just not be there could, must be so strong

Sataira Douglas: and to not working.

You know, the one thing, and Susanna knows this before she left, and um, I'm kind of vocal at this point. I really don't care what could happen. DPS, there's not a lot they can do. And like I told, um, my current administration, my former administration, when I leave, I'll be a community member and therefore everyone will find out anything and everything that they wanna find out.

Like, you're lucky right now because I'm being professional, right? Like

Dr. Asia Lyons: Right.

Sataira Douglas: I'm telling you everything because I work here and they already know, a lot of people know in the community because I've had parents write letters on my behalf. Um. But more importantly, I don't wanna work for a district that says they stand for equity, that says they [01:23:00] stand for black excellence in Black Lives Matter and that have my majority minority students.

And yet this is how they're treating their bipoc teachers. 'cause for reals, like I tell people all the time, kids are experiencing this all the time. They just don't have the words for it. Right. A hundred percent. They can't say tone, policing, microaggressions. And even when they do, 'cause I've had very articulate students who couldn't tell me what was happening.

No one believes them. Right. Like even when I have gotten to parents and say like, Hey, you might wanna come into the school like this is what's happening. And when parents do, so either you have parents who don't believe or you have parents who come in and our system has now managed a way to minimize our parents' voices.

Right?

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Either minimize them in this school or we do what I've seen being done. We give them ultimatums. You either stay here and shut up.

Kevin Adams: That's right.

Sataira Douglas: Your kid to that school.

Kevin Adams: That's

Sataira Douglas: right. So I just don't wanna work a part of that. I don't wanna work in a district where I tell my parents all the time, I have a kid who lives five houses down from me and I tell her her parent all the time, I would not, would not bring my [01:24:00] kid to the school I teach at.

And I know a lot of black teachers who work at that school who say the same thing, or Hispanic teachers who bring them there, but they only have minority teachers. Right. They only have Hispanic teachers and so I, I just can't continue to do this. Right? Like, I don't wanna say like to my kids as I tell 'em all the time, like, be authentic, authentically yourself.

Yep. Question, question systems, question myself. Um, call me out when I'm doing wrong, but know that they are getting reprimanded all the time in a school situation. Right? Like, I'll just give you this little thing. I had a student, so, um, I pride myself, my name is Satara, right? So I pride myself on saying kids' names the right

Kevin Adams: way.

Yep, yep, yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, because for so long as a kid going through K through 12, people said my name wrong.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: And I used to suck it up and be like, oh, well it sounded like my name.

Kevin Adams: Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: Um, but I told my kids like, that's not gonna happen when you're in my class. I don't care how many times you have to tell me, Ms.

Douglas, you said Asia wrong. You will say it this way.

Kevin Adams: That's right.

Sataira Douglas: So I had a student, um, and her name is very complex. I'm just gonna say [01:25:00] Asia, just to go with not saying her name. Yeah. So her name is Asia and the, uh, librarian had called her Aja. And so, um, and Asia, Asian Asia, I'm starting to say her real name.

Asia, uh, at that point had built up the confidence to say it right. Like hadn't built up the confidence to say like, Hey, you're calling me the wrong name. So I stepped in and I said, Hey, you know, whatever your name is, I just wanna let you know, um, you said her name wrong.

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: And so she's like, well, you know, I work with a lot of kids, so there's just no way I can say it wrong.

Inappropriate response. Inappropriate response. The response is, thank you for letting me know. I will try next time to say it correctly.

Gerarado: Yeah. Or,

Sataira Douglas: yeah, just correct me. And so only reason I'm saying this is because then that now transfers to our administration. So the librarian, because I called her out, I went to the administration and said.

You need to talk to her about the way she talks to kids, because if someone corrects her about someone's name at a very minority school, right?

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: You need to say, Hey, that's not the response. It's definitely not the response in [01:26:00] front of it's different. If she wanted to pull me aside one-on-one and say, Hey, is Tara.

Don't ever correct me like that. Cool. But you don't say that with the kids there. So that now goes to my administration, who is now, I'm trying to say another principal's name, um, who works in DPS and his name is very particular and I never say it right. So I'm like, oh, I'm trying to say it right. I'm trying to say it right.

And so she says it and she was like, yeah, oh, so he's so uptight about his name. This is a white presenting woman with the easiest name in the world. And she's like, yeah, he's so uptight and he makes sure that he corrects you and that you have to say it the right way. And I had to come back and stop myself and email her and let her know what she said was wrong.

Yeah. That she had no right to try to check someone on wanting their name to be said. Right. And how much privilege she has as a person to think she had the right to say something. Mm-hmm. And the audacity of you, a principal at a very minority school to call out someone for saying their name wrong. So is that why little boys go from Julio to Julio?

Kevin Adams: Yeah.

Sataira Douglas: Like, is that why they switched their names? Because so many people, like you have told them it's not okay to correct themselves. [01:27:00] So honestly, Asia, like I would just wanna get away from teaching because I want to be. A person in the community who truly uplifts my community and I can't do it in this school because obviously as DPS might be my employer, I can't go and blast them every five seconds about things that happen.

Yeah. Um, right. Like I can't always, like just now, I almost slipped up on saying the student's name. I can get in trouble for that. Yeah. But when I work in the community, I can do what I do.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Mm-hmm.

Sataira Douglas: So, yeah, I just want a break from this.

Dr. Asia Lyons: I respect that.

Kevin Adams: No, and I always wonder that, you know, I ask myself, I'm like, can I really liberate kids and do the work as part of the district?

Because you see all of these contradictions and like you said there, if they're gonna treat us like that as educators. We know, we've seen it. That trickles down to the students consistently. Sure,

Dr. Asia Lyons: sure.

Kevin Adams: Consistently. And it, and it just, you feel counterproductive. You're like, am I what? Wait, wait, what am I doing?

Am I helping to, [01:28:00] uh, hold this system up or am I helping to break it down? Right. And it's, and it is just that wondering, you know, and, and, and, but this idea that you're like, I'm still committed to my community and advocacy and, and my people, which I think is like the critical thing, you know, as we were talking about all of this, uh, me and Asia, you know, this podcast, this is like one of the things, well, what, what else is there out there?

And how can we stay involved and still be a part of our community, but, you know, not, not contribute to this oppression that is mm-hmm. The American education system.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, I, I, the famous Audrey Lord quote, right. The master's tools will not dismantle the master's house.

Kevin Adams: Sure enough,

Dr. Asia Lyons: as long as we get our, our paycheck, our para, our insurance, our fill in the blank, right.

Our stu our children go to schools. It's really difficult to, to shake it up too much. Right. There's [01:29:00] always a boundary and you may or may not have touched that boundary.

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Dr. Asia Lyons: But it's, you know, it's there. Right. And it's always, it's, it can be for, for many. And I, speaking for myself at being a teacher for 12 years before I, I left, it was always bumping up against that boundary.

Right? Yep. Um, and just saying like, this is, how long can I go like this? So, yeah, I get it. We both get it.

Kevin Adams: Yes. Yes. Well, thank you so much, Satara. Uh, uh, your story is powerful. I think, you know, I'm, I'm so happy that it is our first exit interview.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yes.

Kevin Adams: Um, you killed it. You killed it. You, you, you, you set the bar very high, you know, but I think this is powerful and important stuff, and I think it's cathartic for black teachers, but I think it's also important for, for these white administrators to hear these stories for, for, for administrators of color to hear these stories, you know, because

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yes.

Kevin Adams: Um, you know, to [01:30:00] sometimes be your own kind, right?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, exactly.

Kevin Adams: Um, and, and I, and hopefully, you know, if these people are true and that they want to, uh, re retain black educators, right? If that's really their solution, you are gonna take this stuff seriously and listen to what you are saying and, and, and the stories that we're gonna hear.

Sataira Douglas: Thank you for having me guys. I think this is a good opportunity and I also think it's really important, like, um, I think it's such a disservice that our community does not know how we're treated, right?

Kevin Adams: Yep.

Sataira Douglas: Um, because they need to know what they're sending their kids into. So if I feel like I'm going into a battle every day, then what do my kids feel like?

They feel like they're going through

Dr. Asia Lyons: exactly.

Sataira Douglas: So thank you for this opportunity. 'cause I do tell my community all the time, like um, a lot of them do know my story, but I don't always go into detail because I am, unfortunately because I still work for DPS, I'm still trying to protect, um, I don't even know why I would be trying to protect 'em, but I am pr protecting myself from getting [01:31:00] a lawsuit or getting fired or any

Kevin Adams: of that because you're professional.

Because like we know black people are the ult, like they say we're not professional. But look, the stuff we don't put up with, we are like the ultimate professionals because we know if they had to go through it one day, one day,

Dr. Asia Lyons: they wouldn't make it.

Sataira Douglas: Nope. So thank you you guys. It's great. And I'm glad I look forward and I actually can give you some more people who can tell you some food.

Kevin Adams: Yes, we'd love that. We'd love that.

Geraldo: Thank you. Yes, please.

Dr. Asia Lyons: As a student, how many black teachers did you have?

Kevin Adams: If your answer is two or less, you are not alone. We know that black teachers are under attack. And with all the conversation happening about black teacher recruitment, shouldn't we be talking about retention too?

Dr. Asia Lyons: So where are [01:32:00] all of our black teachers?

Kevin Adams: I'm so glad you asked. In the new monthly podcast series from Two Dope Productions, the exit interview coming in late January, Asia Lyons.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Hey y'all

Kevin Adams: and me, Kevin Adams talk with former black educators who've been pushed out of the classroom.

Dr. Asia Lyons: We wanna know their stories. Who or what made them leave? How was their family affected by the pushout?

And most importantly, what are they doing now that they've left the classroom?

Kevin Adams: If you would like to the egg interview, reach out to us on Instagram and Twitter at two Dope Teachers or at email us at tudo teachers@gmail.com.

Gerarado: I'm just gonna let it keep running. Um, my internet connection is weird. Let me just make sure.

Oh, okay. It's 'cause I'm on my guest network. We're, we're gonna, I think that one was fine. I can hear. Um, but let's, let's record it. Um, [01:33:00]

Dr. Asia Lyons: as a student, how many black teachers did you,

Kevin Adams: your answer is two or less. You are not alone. We know that black teachers are under attack. And with all the conversation happening about black teacher recruitment, shouldn't we be talking about retention too?

Dr. Asia Lyons: So where are all of our black teachers?

Kevin Adams: I'm so glad you asked. In the new monthly podcast series from Two Dope Productions, the exit interview coming in late January, Asia Lions.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Hey, y'all

Kevin Adams: and me, Kevin Adams talk with former black educators who've been pushed outta the classroom.

Dr. Asia Lyons: We wanna know their stories, who or what made them leave?

How was their family affected by the pushout, and most importantly, what are they doing now that they've left the classroom?

Kevin Adams: If you'd like to be on the exit interview, reach out to us on Instagram and Twitter at two Dope Teachers, or email us at two Dope teachers@gmail.com

Gerarado: Hot Fire.