Degrees, Detours and the Common Good with Dr. Lance Bennett

Degrees, Detours and the Common Good with Dr. Lance Bennett

[00:00:00]

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: All right folks. Welcome back to the X Interviewer Podcast for black educators. It's me, Dr. Asia, and we had a little break in August, but we're back. It's September. We're in season five. And of course, as always, fire guests. Today we have Dr. Lance Bennett. Um, we found each other through a good friend Mia, who shout out she was on the show a while back.

So thank you for, for the connection. Uh, Dr. Bennett, tell us a little bit about yourself.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah. First of all, thank you so much Dr. Lyons, for having me. I'm excited to be here today and have this conversation with you. a little bit about me is that I, I'm a native of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I'm a big equals fan,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Okay.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: birds. Go birds. It's a season. Season's about to start off, about to run it back. and so, uh, [00:01:00] I'm a, my background is in higher education. Um, and so throughout my, throughout my career, I've been, uh, focused on, you know, providing educational opportunities to those who, who, who don't necessarily get a first shot at it. Uh, but also, um, now I've shifted to also just doing more community oriented work within the realm of higher education.

And so, uh, I'm excited to really just embark on this journey, um, and to just have more conversation with you about how I got here, and where I am today.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah, and I'm excited to have this conversation. We don't typically have a ton of folks who s started in higher ed.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: have folks who maybe were in K 12 and then they became professors or some other journey, but yours is a little bit different, so I'm excited to hear your story. So let's start it off.

Tell us about your journey into education. How'd you know that education was for you? What was that all about?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah. So my journey to education really [00:02:00] began when I was a community college student. Uh, so when I was a student, I had this opportunity from one of my professors. Uh, she had an honors course option for our argumentation and debate class that she needed to give to one student. And so she reached out to me and asked, uh, would I wanna be part of this?

And what it entailed was completing a term paper and then submitting that paper to a regional academic conference. So,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Okay.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: at the time I didn't know what that was. I didn't know what academic conferences were. Right. So I was a sophomore in college. I didn't know what it was, never really heard about it, but it, I said, it sounds good, so we'll just, we'll just roll with it.

And, uh, so I kind of caught the bug there. I said, okay, I kind of liked this. Okay, I want to keep doing this. Presented the paper and everything. So that paper was on, I'll tell you, it's, it's a little bit technical, but

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: let's hear it.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: it was on Obama, president Obama's use [00:03:00] of narrative rationality in his, uh, more perfect union speech.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: so you all might remember that speech, uh, famous Speech of Philadelphia right after the Jeremiah Wright incident. And so that he, he made a speech to, pretty much in hindsight, to save his campaign. It was very, it was just very masterful of how he navigated it. Um, so that stuck out to me, um, when I was 18, 19 years old.

So that's how it really got started.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: So I wanna, I wanna back up a little bit that you started off in community college

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: I wanna shout out to community college. I also am a com community college, uh, graduate. Um, and I always wanna highlight the importance of community college in a lot of folks life. And how, for me, the, the professors in my community college were amazing and really cared and helped me give 'em the path to education.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: and [00:04:00] so I always wanna, always wanna shout them out because I don't know how many people, um, have gone to community college and feel some kind of shame about it, or hesitancy or whatever. But I've always wanna say like, those are, that's so great. And so let me ask you. Quick question. As a side note, what made you decide, or what was the decision behind a community college versus a traditional four year at the beginning of your, of your education or your higher ed education career?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah. So, uh, to be perfectly honest, I, I didn't have the best grades coming outta high school, and so I graduated, what, 44 out of 50 in my class. And so I didn't, you know, I needed a spot I felt like to one. That wouldn't just throw me into, into like, chaos.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: and so I needed that, that couple of years to really just kind of get footing and grounding. but then I also was, my, my mother [00:05:00] graduated from the same community college when I was, when I was young, and so I was very familiar with, with the institution already. So it just seemed like a perfect sort of, okay, we gonna do this couple years, we're gonna plan it out, map it out, get my grades up, and then uh, we'll transfer.

And that worked out perfectly. So, uh, so yeah, so that's what really made me do it. Um, plus, but plus also, I mean, it was, it was affordable,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: I mean, I mean, I, I didn't have any loans from the community college. Um, I had a little bit of loan from when I transferred for my four year, but that's about it.

And so. Yeah, I mean, BA back when I went was, I started college in 2010. Um, were like looking down on community college. I

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: tell me like, know, you made a bad choice by going people literally at church telling me, you, you, that, that you would've messed up by going [00:06:00] to this community college. You need to go to A-H-B-C-U and you need to go to, you need to go to a four year. Um, but interestingly, fast forward to 20, 25 people over time have quite frankly embraced community college. One because it was affordability,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: but two, because of dual credit and things like that where folks can get high school credit in, uh, or excuse me, college credit while being in high school. And so it's interesting though.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah. The dual enrollment programs have taken off for sure here in Denver or in Colorado. And I know even my niece, she graduated from high school and then the next semester she graduated from community college. Right. Um, and so I definitely am proponent and we, I'm glad we have come a long way. So continue your story.

You transferred. But again, what was the major you decided to go into? Like what was that journey like?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: yeah. So I was a communication studies major, so my focus was on interpersonal and organizational [00:07:00] communication. Um, I, you know, you know, I really enjoyed the academic experience. Just I went to a liberal arts school, um, for, remain of my two years, uh, Eastern University, right outside of Philly. I really enjoyed our conversations in the classroom. This is, again, small school, so I had so many like, intimate conversations with my professors.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Our professors, like it was a type of school where like professors invite you over to their house for dinner. It was that type of

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And so, and so we would have like these deep conversations about important societal matters. Um, and so like I, I just like, okay, I really like, liked this atmosphere in this environment. Like, so I asked my professors, okay, if I wanna do this, if I wanna get to where you are, what is it that, that I need to do? And so they were like, well, you need to go on to get your masters, then you need to go on to get your PhD after that.

[00:08:00] Uh, and so but they were like, in the meantime, what we can do is we can give you some experience by having you be a TA for some of the classes you already took.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Okay.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: while you're an undergrad, I said, okay, great.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: so those, those TA class, those TA credits went on my transcript. Um, and so basically what I was doing was they gave me the opportunity to lecture, uh, to grade assignments. And so it was really like a mentorship, apprenticeship type of experience that when I got to grad school, like I already knew what I was doing. Um, I didn't have to like, I mean, you had to go through TA training, but like, but I already knew what I needed to do and I knew how to teach. I knew how to construct a lecture, how to, uh, how to help students, you know, in office hours.

Like I had my own office hours, like as a,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: student,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: you know, and so yeah, that's how it really began, right? And so then, then transitioning to my [00:09:00] master's and my doctorate, um, that was the foundation of it all.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah. And so when I spoke to you when we had our kind of conversation pre, pre, you said that you were on the track to being president, like the president of a university track.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: never heard anyone say that before. I've, I know what a many of us know what the university president is, but the track to, to get there, tell us, because I want people to know like what that looks like.

Is that very similar to what it means to be a professor? Then you kind, there's some other pathway or what, what was that, uh, specific situation like?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah. So nowadays there are a lot of different pathways that folks can choose to, you know, become president. Uh, the traditional one historically has been, you know, you'd be a professor, you rise up, you know, be a department chair, dean, provost and president. However, I didn't want that path. Um, [00:10:00] and I, I'll tell you more about, more about why, uh, one, because I wanted to be strictly on the admin side, um,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Oh, you don't like grading papers?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: not, not that much anymore. Not that much, no more. I tell

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah, though, for real.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: uh, so I didn't wanna be on the tenure track. originally I wanted to pursue that path, but the more and more I started to look at some of the challenges with it. I got some of that, you know, early insight when I was a, when I was a grad student. It really is a difficult, difficult, um, I feel like it's an uphill battle many ways, right?

So when it comes to publishing, if you are on a tenure track, that's one of the main things you need to do. You need to publish, publish, publish. Um, I mean, I've published plenty of [00:11:00] articles and it takes a very long time for these

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: to through the cycle for you to maybe, or maybe not get a revis resubmit for you to maybe or may not get a, uh, get an acceptance after that. And so I've, I've been through the process quite a bit and it's, it is kind of fun. I feel like it's fighting a losing battle. So I said, well, I still love, I still love higher ed, but I want to really pursue this. Um. And I'll tell you about the person who really like got my interest in this, on that path was, so when I was at the University of Iowa, um, I was a grad student there.

I was invited to be on the provost search committee. the chair of the committee, she reached out to me, um, and said like, I would like to have a conversation with you. was like, oh, boy, what? Did I do something wrong? Did I not, did I not do what I was supposed to do or something? And she was like, no. I, you know, I was talking [00:12:00] to my husband last night and, you know, I was telling him like, I feel like Lance could be a college president one day.

I could just see it. And so I was like, oh, okay. And now remember, I'm, I'm a grad student. I'm a grad student.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah, that's, and so that's that to have somebody tell you that I, I know you're gonna finish this story, but what was the immediate thought in your mind when she said that to you?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Me a thought was, okay, that's interesting. Um, that's not what I expected to hear today. Um, but I was like, huh, are you sure about that? Like, are you sure? Because, 'cause that's the first time I've, someone's ever said that to

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: And

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: you know, I was interested in administration and, and generally speaking, but to go all the way up. I was like, oh, okay.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: um, was like, well, have a conversation with of the university. She says, I want you to get an internship in the president's office. [00:13:00] I was

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Oh wow.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: yeah, yeah. so I got on President's schedule. We had a conversation about, um. Just learning a bunch of legislator, legislative, legislative stuff, funding. Um, so, so it's, it's fascinating, right? There's like, even as I'm talking, I'm thinking through like a lot of those experiences I had even as a student, was like, it's like being a, I was like a paraprofessional. Like I was like, I was in the student space, but I also was like, I was doing some serious stuff, um, in times in which I wasn't really technically supposed to, but my

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: has always been create your own path, right?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah. Yeah. And people, oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: like, if it's not like an established thing, create your path. Like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: yeah, make it up [00:14:00] because just because it's not done doesn't mean it can't be done.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: yeah,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: I think that's been one of my greatest strengths in this space of. I'll create whatever the hell I want and I'll make it work, so, so, yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: yeah. I, I think it's interesting because yeah, you're right. Create the path. And I also think it's important according to the way you're sharing this, is that it's important to be a good listener.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Right. And to step into space when somebody's saying, I think that you should be a this, or I think that you should be a this, or, can you please be, my intern is saying, saying, even if it's a, the first thought is, oh my gosh, I'm not qualified.

And that I'm talking to, in a general sense to anyone, but it's like, well, someone saw this in me, so let me just see. Right. And I feel like, yeah, I feel like you're, you're, you're sharing this. Let me just see all the way through your, your whole career. Um, well, up to this point that [00:15:00] you're sharing with us, it's like, let me just see.

And that, and people. Pausing and noticing how you're showing up in community, how you're showing up, uh, in, in your classes and, and the work that you're doing to say like, Hey, there's something special about the way that he's able to, you know, connect with students or get the work done or how he's writing.

So I think that's really important. It's a combination of us like stepping in to these spaces that may, like you said, like, how did I go from A to J? Wait, don't ask questions. Just go to J and just be there. Just j there. So I'm glad that you're saying that. Well continue. So you got this, this conversation's happening with the president.

It

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: yeah, so, um, I ultimately didn't do the internship with, with him. it just like timing didn't work out, but I did do it in my dean's office though.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: okay.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: and so I, you know, I had a, you know, I had a internship for a semester there. Um, [00:16:00] and I was, I was learning a little bit about funding, um, and how programs get funded. Just basically like coming, like just helping the dean and the associate Dean, like strategize around like how to make that were struggling on campus more viable and more attractive for students. Um, yeah, so again, I have my head in some stuff that I'm like, man, I, that's some serious stuff.

Like, and I, you know, I, I think it's funny because even at that time wasn't in the higher ed literature like that, so I didn't know what, like the literature said. Some of it was just, I felt like, just like common sense of like, how we could make this program better for students. And on top of that, you know, I, I, I personally think about like my, how I grew up, how I grew up in church, I feel like church functioned very similarly as universities. I mean. Our modern university does come out of the [00:17:00] church historically. So, so I think there's a direct, you know, connection there. just like even those experiences of like, how do we get people to come to service and how do we get people interested and you wanna talk about fundraising? Well that's tithes and offerings to me, right?

Like, and so that's basically the same thing. And, and uh, 'cause no one has to give money, right? No one has to give money to a organization or to a church or to a university, but you are persuaded by something to, to, to give. And so, um, it's the same sort of idea. Same idea. And I just see, I just kept seeing that play out. Um, throughout my time

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah. I love this. Yeah, you're making a really good point. Um, I had to sit on that for a little bit 'cause you're making a good point. That connection between higher education and or the programming and the church. Um, [00:18:00] yeah. So you finish school then what?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah, so I finished my doctorate, um, in 2023. Um, while I was doing my doctorate, I actually, I had an, an administrative position, um, at the University of Texas at Dallas. Uh, I started off as assistant director of, of assessment. Um, I got promoted twice in three years, um, ultimately to being the director of assessment and accreditation and decision support makes us a fancy way of saying, uh, one the accreditation piece, making sure that our stuff is in order for our accrediting body.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Uh, and so there's that also assessing student learning outcomes. I had my hand in some strategic initiatives for the university too. and, you know, one of those things was. Trying to design a continuing and professional education [00:19:00] unit for the institution. my job in this was to design it from scratch entirely. design the strategy using our budget formula to figure out to make it work, how not to put us too much in debt to find a way to make us profit after a certain point, which I was able to do. and so, yeah, so I, I, I think back to that, that was probably one of my favorite projects at the

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Why? Why? Why is that?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: um, because I love designing things from scratch.

I do, I, and I like finding a way when it's, when it's messed up and when it's like hard. I like finding a way to figure it out. Um, you know, I think, uh, that's just where I thrive the most. Like when it's really messed up, um, I can find, I feel like I can find a way to do it, uh, to make it work, to get. To accomplish multiple things at one time. [00:20:00] yeah, I feel like it's always, I don't know. I feel like I'm, think, again, I go back to the, my experiences with the church, right? Like, growing up in church like that, that is black for black churches in America. That is the overarching themes, finding a way to make it work.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: yeah. The building fund.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: do it. We gonna make it work, right?

We gonna make it work. And I see, I just see that theme just playing outta my life, just over and over again of like, you know, we may not have pieces A through Z, A through Z, but we going to take a A through J we going to piece that together here to make it

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: here. And so the skillset, like again, it just plays itself in so many, in so many instances. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: So.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: so you, so you are getting your doctorate and you're also working at the same university in which you're getting your doctorate.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: [00:21:00] No, no, I wasn't. So

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Oh, okay.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: was at, uh, St. Edwards University in

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Gotcha. Okay. So, so you're doing that and you're still, you're still thinking about the college president

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: I was,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: tell us about that, please.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: dead set on it. Um, I was dead set on it. Um, I was building the pathway through fellowships, you know, gaining mentors. Um, yeah, I was doing it, I was doing it all, you know, doing conferences, doing a lot of things in the profession. just reading heavily of just higher ed, just getting higher ed knowledge from scholars and authors and, and just learning, just learning everything, every possible thing I can about how a university functions from top to bottom. Um. I was, yeah, I, you know, I was dance set on it. Um, just learning about big and small, but also trying to, uh, plan my own trajectory about what type of institution I want to be at. Big, small, [00:22:00] public, private,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: four year, what it was, right? And so trying to bend it and make it work. Here we go again, trying to bend the situation and make it work how I can.

Um, I don't know. But the challenge became, I think, a brush up against my educational philosophy, the type of institution that supports that philosophy, and based upon my pedigree, so to speak, what would be allowed to be, I would be pretty much allowed to serve it. So.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: this is a great transition to our question of, yeah, I'm talking to you when you're not a college president. You know, and you had, when we talked, you said, that just turned out not to be for me, and we, you started talking about your philosophy.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: between 20 22, 3, and now two years later, we're, we're not on that path anymore.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: was the thing or the, the [00:23:00] catalyst that helped you decide maybe being a college president at any level? At least at not at this moment, is not for you.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of different things. So I, I'll talk about the philosophy, then I'll talk about some of the stuff that I've learned just

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: and some of the stuff that's been going on in society. Uh, so like my philosophy is that, uh, I believe in learning for learning's sake. And I believe that learning should be, we can educate for the workforce, and I'm, I'm all for that.

Um, simultaneously though, I believe that we should put just as much emphasis on helping people become. Better thinkers. Um, and you know, that kind of brushes up against some of the, well, most of the trends right now in higher ed colleges, universities are at a point where they're trying to actively fulfill many stakeholders needs.

The public wants to know what is the ROI, the quantitative, ROI [00:24:00] a degree. And so with that comes, well, if I send my child to X school to major in XX program, are they going to make X dollars?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: So with that comes a whole, a whole slew of things that we ain't focused on you being a critical thinker as much. We focused on you getting that money. And so that for me is antithetical to my philosophy. so. Take that combined with, you know, I have mentors who are presidents who've experienced a lot of traumatic instances in their presidency. Uh, people, you know, sending death threats,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: um, people just being real nasty to them.

Um, um, it's caused a lot of health issues

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Um, so that's [00:25:00] that, uh, at the societal level. Look, we got some issues with going on right now with this administration, it's really create, it's really like trying to lead a place with two arms behind your back. You don't really have too much of a option in terms of how you, you know, how you lead this place. And so of that combined, and, and, and the thing is, I don't foresee that know eroding Between now and when it would be my time to be president.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: So I saw it. I saw, I said, okay, writings on the wall, I feel like with all these things and I'm out.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Let me ask. What, at what point did it start to shine a light like uhoh? I'm starting to put it all together. Like what was the timeline [00:26:00] between that decision of I'm or that realization to like, I'm officially deciding this is not for me, and what was that Tug of war and a mind like, because if you've been on that train all for a long time and you are like, I gotta get off the train, that has to be a hard decision to make.

Or is it? Or was it?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: it was very hard 'cause I felt like a per, like a part of my identity, like went away. To be

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure. Sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: so I struggled with this decision for a long time. You know, I've talked about it in therapy, I've talked about it, and you know, with my mentor, talked about it with my wife, talked about it with, and so it was just like, yeah.

So the timeline really, um, funny enough, it actually came out from an opportunity, potential opportunity anyway that someone reached out to me about. my community college was part of, uh, uh, Jill Biden's [00:27:00] initiative for getting community college graduates in the federal government and in the administration. So each community college was part of this program can nominate like or six alumni to interview to be part of the administration.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And so these would, these would've been presidential appointments. Um. So they would've ended when the new administration took over. but so, you know, I sent my, so nothing ever came of it, but I sent my application into the White House. Um, and so it got me kind of thinking about like, well, what if I did something different that could have a larger impact?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And so that's when it kind of clicked for me of like, okay, well, like university is cool, but what if you could have a bigger impact and do something different, to still fulfill the [00:28:00] desire that you have to, Im impact society? Um, so that was the first instance, so Right. A right before that though, one of my mentors told me we were headed to a Dallas Cowboys game. He had a free ticket. Now, I'm not a Cowboys fan, as we all know.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: You already established that.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Established that, but he had a free ticket. And so I said, yeah, I'm gonna go right. Um, he said to me in the car, he was like, you know, he said, I know you wanna be a college president. He said, but I actually think being president should be your backup plan. I was like, and so like, I was shook because I was like, what, again? Now it's the same time around the same time with the White House stuff. And so I'm shook and I'm like, yo, no one has ever said that to me. but then I was also at the, simultaneously in the middle of another job search, and I was a, I was a candidate.

I, I [00:29:00] didn't get the job, but the, but the hiring manager reached out to me. He asked me, he said, you know, we're not moving you forward, but I would like to provide you with some feedback. He said, would you be open to it? So I said, yeah, sure. Right. I talked to him. Um, he was like, you know, what is your, what is your end goal?

Like, what is your. I said, well, my dream is to be a college president. He was like, that's not good enough. And then I was like, what? So now this is the second time someone even told

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: basically of like, all right, you could do better than this. And 'cause in my head I'm like, this the highest, you know, I'm saying this is the highest you could get. Like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: know what I'm saying? Like, theoretically like this, the highest you could be. he was like, no, you could do way bigger things than that. And so that's when I was like, wow. Um, okay. Maybe I need to think about something different.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: [00:30:00] Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: I, it just keeps coming back to people are really your whole, this whole time they're just sewing into you and just like, Hey, have you thought about this? Hey. And I just, I love the way that community can support us

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Uh mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: if we're open to it. If you know, if. They feel like we are receptive. If we've been receptive for the past, people are saying, I'm gonna say this thing and see what happens.

Um,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: so

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: It, it, it, my community has been so impactful in this journey. Right.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: I think what's so great about switching or switching and or combining communication studies and education together that one. You know, I understand that communication is about the relationship piece and how we build relationships in whatever space. Um, but the education aspect of it, I think it really helps to create a nice, [00:31:00] coupling of, of, of experiences that one that I didn't expect would happen. Um, and two, 'cause all, all the stuff that I planned in my career, uh, 'cause I'm a big planner, right? But I plan out lots of things. Uh, there's actually very few things that I do serendipitously very few things, right?

Like very few.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Okay.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: so things are planned out. Uh, in fact, like this period, early 2020s, I had a 10 year like career plan. Like I had, I had a spreadsheet of,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: okay.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: I was serious, I'm serious, but where, where I wanted to

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: boom, boom. Um, and so all that went out the window. When I heard these two, these two comments and so yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: yeah. That you talking to the therapist, talking to your wife, talking to the Lord, talking. Right. It's like, but I have a spreadsheet, but I've gotta ex, [00:32:00] you know? Um, and what does that say to. All of us like the best laid plans, uh, and we can think this is how it's going to be. And it makes sense when we're sitting there with our paper or our manifestation boards or our, and then one thing or two comments or something that someone sees in us can change the trajectory of everything that we ever want to do.

And yeah. And I wanna ask the question, what are you doing now? 'cause we're leaning into that. Um, and I, I want you to talk about like, so what are you doing now? What are you up to?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah, so, uh, earlier this year I launched an organization called The People's Institute for the Common Good. And so this organization is about creating spaces for shared learning and critical dialogue about important topics in society that, um, help us to create a better humanistic experience for, for the world. Um, and so we do that [00:33:00] through a variety of ways. One is our, uh, community-based book club in which we invite folks, anybody, any person from any walk of life could be part of our book club. We're actually doing a series right now on, um, the importance of friendship, where we're asking the question about what does it mean to be a good friend? Um, secondly, we have our monthly lunch and learns where we invite scholars, thought leaders, professionals to engage the community, um, virtually about important topics, right? So, um, in the, in the month of September, our Lunch and Learn is with Professor Leah Lipman from the University of Michigan Law School. And She'll, she's talking about her new book called Lawless, um, and how the Supreme Court on fringe theories and conservative grievance.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: so her new book just came out, and so she'll be in talking to us about, about just some of the pressing issues with, with, with, with that body, um, that are current, that are going on right now. Um, [00:34:00] but then finally we're launching a distinguished speaker series we'll invite scholars, thought leaders to Dallas. talk, to have scholarly conversations about these important things. And so we've been able to successfully get a bunch of partners, community-based organizations joining us to, to be part of this.

And so I'm excited about like, what's to come. I'm excited about what we've done. I'm excited about people just, or just me creating a learning space for folks to just learn without any stipulations. You ain't gotta pay no tuition,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: gotta pay no tuition. you gotta do is just show up and be part of a community just to get some extra knowledge.

Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: And that learning for the sake of learning, right?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: For the sake of

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah. Yeah. And I want the audience to know that Dr. Bennett, when we spoke a while back, he's like, yeah, I'm having such and such come to the book club. I'm like, who is that? You don't know who that [00:35:00] is. I mean, I, he had me buying books and pulling things up and I'm like, I don't know.

You don't know that. I'm like, oh, I need to get back into my books. Um, yes. Yes.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And you know, it's so funny 'cause like, you know, when I was in grad school, I felt like I didn't have time to

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Like,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Tell,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: enough, ironically enough, right? Especially when I was in my, um, my master's program, my second master's program. I, I, I don't know, I just was, I felt like just going to class, just reading studies and, uh, but I didn't.

And I think with, with that second master's program in particular, I think there was kind of a, my, my, my approach to like education kind of started to change, but I couldn't articulate. It like, I don't just wanna publish study just for the sake of publishing studies. I wanna have people, I wanna use my work to [00:36:00] impact people, right?

Like, know, um, and I want to be able to publish these things so that way folks can, um, make a change in their life. And hopefully we can make a better society from that. But, so, but my, but my faculty in that program, they weren't, they, they wasn't vibing with that.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: They weren't vibing with that.

They were, they actually looked at me quite strange when I would bring that up. And to me, that, that, that is, it's weird. It's, it doesn't make a lot of sense for you to be against that idea. 'cause I believe when it comes to the education, formal education that we do have, um, the master's degrees, the doctorate degrees, believe it is a, is a sacred responsibility. It is a sacred responsibility. Like I have my robe up on the wall on my door because I feel like, I feel a sacred responsibility of being an intellectual and being a scholar. To me, it is, it [00:37:00] is a commitment to society, improve society. And if you want, if you wanna wear that, then you need to uphold that, uphold that integrity, and uphold that commitment.

So that's what it means to me. Um, and so yeah, so I, that's when things, I think things kind of started to shift a little bit for me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah, I wanna know the, where the light bulb, like where were you when you're like, oh, I have an idea. I'm gonna start this institute. I need to know. We need to know because we're, we're working a traditional job, we're doing things, you know, and then all of a, not all of a sudden, 'cause you said it took a long time, but then there was this, I have an idea.

Learning for the sake of learning. Tell us about that, that window of time, that aha. Where did that come from? Where were you? Who did you share with, what was the response?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah. So this is funny. I'm glad you asked that question because, so this actually came from a joke, right? So the joke was, I was telling one of my, uh, my former [00:38:00] supervisor actually, like, you know, um, 'cause we were just frustrated with something that was going on, you know, at the institution. And I was like, you know what I said?

I said, you know what? That's why I'm gonna start my own institution. I, I said, you know, I'm gonna start my own. And then I, and she kind of looked at me like, interesting. Um, yeah. And so then I started, you know, again, I read a bunch of higher ed

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: one of my favorite higher ed books is about, um, like speculative design for new possible universities that can exist. And so, and then I read that book. I was like, I really like how he's playing with these ideas. He's a professor at Ohio State who's a historian

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: who studies the future.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: That's his whole agenda. And so, um, so then I was at a, was at our national, uh, [00:39:00] conference, the American Association for Colleges and Universities, and I went to a panel about startup universities. And so it was only a few people in the room. I don't know too many people who wanna do that. And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah, no.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: and so, I said, okay, maybe I don't wanna go that far to having a full fledged university, but what I, but perhaps though I could create a learning space that has the prototype of a university.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: But it is open to the public, it's free, it's community based. Um, so that's when I got the idea. I said, okay, well what, what would this look like? And like, you know, it would need to be a nonprofit and would need to be, you know, mean technically it doesn't need to be a nonprofit, but, but you want the tax benefits.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure. Sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: um, and so I said, well, okay, let's see what I could do. I literally, [00:40:00] like, I mapped this out, you know, I went back up to my hotel room, mapped this out. Um, let's see what I could do, see what I could do and how would I build programs. And so again, my, the institute, it really is in terms of its philosophy, it's a combination of a couple different things and a couple different ideas from those authors that I've read

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: what learning spaces. Can be, um, and how they're centered. Um, and so, and now what's interesting is, um, I I, you know, I can't fully say where yet, but what's interesting is I've only been operating this for four months, but the good news is one, we've gotten a lot of people who've been supporting us, who've been part of our journey, been part of our programming, and we also have a university that's interested in having their students be part of our programming

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Oh wow.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: credit.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Oh wow.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: yeah. And so that is, um, that is, that's huge. [00:41:00] That is huge because now it's like, okay, I'm, I'm fulfilling what I want the university to be by virtue of doing it this way

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: with the existing institutions to help fill that gap. So, yeah. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: What would your spreadsheet say about,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Spreadsheet. You know what's funny? I actually need to see if I still have that

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: you need to pull it out and you need to put it on the show notes so folks can see this spreadsheet torn up.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: right, right.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Scratched up, torn up, yes.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Or up. Yeah,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: I look, listen, I think spreadsheet would say, nah, it just

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: nah, we ain't doing that. Right. Um, that's all cool and all, but, but nah, there's something better that you could do. Um, yeah, and like I said, you know, some of this stuff just kind of came out of because of frustration

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm. Which a lot of time it does, [00:42:00] right?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: right, of like, you know what, yo, these mugs stripping

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: right. I feel like I got something to contribute and I feel like the gaps that I see here, current leadership isn't fulfilling. They don't wanna fulfill it.

They ain't trying to,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: That's exactly right.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: but I got all this knowledge and skill and ability to, to feel, fulfill that gap in a way that's different and, and, and, and unique. And so, and so again, the institute is really, again, it's just about just coming together. Just we got people who are, you know, in Chicago who, who join virtually to our stuff. across the country.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Um, and that is really cool because, I mean, really it was just supposed to be like a Dallas thing and that's it.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Uh, but now, and we got folks in different time zones joining. And so, we had some guy in [00:43:00] England join for one, for one session that we had for one lunch and learn.

And so I was like, wow, that's crazy. You

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And you know, it, it's, it is fascinating. And so, so again, I go back to running this institute preparing to be president of a university. So I'm learning all this stuff, fundraising, learning how to build programs, learning how to, uh, engage with, um, with, with who've, who've been part of your programming, right?

Like how to engage with students, so to speak, right? And, so I find it fascinating 'cause I was preparing for all of that, and I'm using those same skills here,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: that's exactly right.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: those same exact skills I'm learning, I'm using over here. and I could, and I feel I could do it in a more genuine way,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah. Which is the best way, right? It's the best way because you get to have the freedom of your own ideas, like, oh, [00:44:00] that's not working quickly, turn left or right, versus, let me go through the ranks and present why I need to change, make a change and talk about the budget. It's just like, okay,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: is why it's not working.

Let's move quickly.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: and it's funny 'cause I had, I actually had an experience with that a couple, couple of weeks ago. A few weeks ago. So, um, so part of the challenge that we were having in the beginning was people, some people were signing up for lunch and learns but not attending. Right.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And so my goal was to kind of cut down from that. Um, and so lunch and learns were free and so I pretty much built like a pricing structure for the different, for the lunch and learns, right? The minimum was like $10, 10 bucks and, but the maximum you could pay was 150, you would get just lunch and learns forever, right? it was a really unique

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: created. Um, plus bonus content and a learning [00:45:00] packet that you would get. As part of that, right? A lot of folks didn't like that. and so what I thought was, you know, trying to fulfill a gap, uh, I immediately saw that, nah, this isn't working. So I went to back to the drawing board and I said, okay, let's just continue to make them free, but make it donation based. And we have a substack, which is our newsletter, but if you want the extra bonus content that you were going to get, you would just pay $5 a month to get the bonus content from the Luckin Learn.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Got you.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: So what that helps to do is, one, provide some stability for the operations, but two continues to provide it accessible for all with the option to be part of this. This [00:46:00] additional piece. And so I, again, I go back to some of the issues that I found in higher ed was, the issue in higher ed is large part is in order to partake in a small portion of this, you have to pay a fee.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: You not the additional part. And so let's make the open access for everybody. And if you want sort of the upgrade, so to speak, you would just pay the extra small fee, which just worked folks started subscribing to it,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: allowed to more money and revenue to come in. Um, and so yeah, that's what worked. That's what, that's what. And so in this space again, and, and I think that's what's so you unique about this, is like you have opportunities to, to pivot. [00:47:00] When it's necessary, like you said, not have to go through the bureaucracy of, uh, of all of that, so,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Do you, Dr. Winter, do you hear your, your story that this whole, I feel like this whole time that you've been on this path, you've been learning or being taught flexibility

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: away from your, the rigid ways that you think

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yes. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah. Like,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: It's so funny. It's so funny. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: think about that. Like every time you think this is it, it's like be more flexible, be more nimble.

Be, which is so counter, counter to like you, what you said was who you are.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Mm-hmm.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: And so perhaps who you are is not a planner in the way you thought you were. You know what I mean?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Right. Not in the way I thought I was, and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: a lesson that I had to learn

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: that really didn't hit me until maybe about. One or two years ago

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: that like, and I think over the course of my lifetime, like I can truly say [00:48:00] that option B and option C always is better than my initial option. My initial thought.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Audience, I want y'all to hear this. I want folks to hear this because I had, I know that we have so many people who are in K 12 ECE, higher ed, and they're like, this is it. I'm gonna retire from here. I'm gonna do da, da, da. And they start seeing these exit signs and say like, time to get off trying to do something different.

And they're like, no, but that's not what the plan is. The plan is to retire and have my pension and do it just like this. And it's not always like that. And

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: It's

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: on the other side, it's just can be so much better if we, we trust in ourselves and our intelligence and our community to take care of us and support us and to create new community, but we have to be open to that.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: yeah, and it's, it's again, something I had to learn. It was a hard lesson for

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: It was a hard lesson because again, I, I think up until, you know, up until that point, yeah. You know, there, there have been things that have helped me pivot and,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: [00:49:00] Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: like, but up until that point though, of my plans for like my education, where I wanted to go and how it worked and things like that, it all pretty much worked out spot on.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: very much methodical.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: it was, it was methodical. Right. And so, like originally, um, I think I got accepted to only one PhD program 'cause this is where I wanted to be.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: I knew it, I knew it. And I, and I, I strategized the hell out of that.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And, uh, yeah. And another funny story, this kind of goes back to like just the planning of it all.

So was in grad school, I was in my master's program, um, for communication studies. I was at the National Communication Association and you know, as a student. You can volunteer to have your registration fee waived. That was major I ain't had no money. The registration fee was like eight,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: [00:50:00] Yeah, of course. Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: So I said, no, I ain't got no bread like that. And so, so I'm a volunteer, but I'm a at the, um, table where you come and get your bags. And so what I did was I went to Vistaprint, brought my little business cards. I was stuffing my business cards.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: No

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yep, So yeah. So again, I grew up in Philly, so I got a little

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: hustle culture. Yes. Shout out.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: to me

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: I'm not mad. These folks, we do the same thing. We do the, we probably put a, we put a plate in there, some, some catfish and.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: look, I was hustling and I felt like I was passing out CDs out the back of my truck,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: You were passing out CDs in the back of your truck.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: But like, look, hey.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: the good news was like, I was able to get people, like, people like reached back out to me.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: sure.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And so I was like, oh, shoot, because I, I didn't know anybody.

This was a [00:51:00] con, that's my first time going. This was a conference of like 6,000 people.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: So I'm like, I don't know. Nobody bet, bet

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: That's so smart.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: and we gonna build this. And so, um, but yeah, I shared that to say like, you know, again, over the course of my time and my profession and my life, I've, I've been able to, you know, do things that I didn't expect to do

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And it always works out in a way that, that you don't think about.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah, that's exactly right.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: and, but I think thing to still do though as you're doing, as you're doing what you're doing, whatever it is you're doing, continue to build skills. whatever way, continue to gain knowledge, continue to, learn, um, learn as much as possible.

Learn as much as possible. And I think that that's what's always been like helpful in my [00:52:00] case of like just being a sponge and just gaining insight whatever.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: yeah, like, I think that's why like within higher ed, it always worked out. Uh, just because like I was willing to learn anything about the profession,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: everything. and being able to apply those things into whatever situation I find myself. Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: So in this same vein of talking about the ebbs and flows and the turns and twists of your career and how you talked about all the folks who've, you know, dropped little hints or not so little hints and ask questions, you know, and then kind of supported and gotta do along the way. Is there, or are there black educators, professors, ECE, folk, however you wanna define education, are there educators that you would like to shout out that have supported you on your path, either as in your career or you know, outside of your career that you know, wanna [00:53:00] say their names out here right now on the exit interview?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah. So, uh, one of my mentors from, um, from grad school, uh, Dr. Tim Brown, we still talk to this day. we did a presentation together last year. yeah, he's now a dean. so we did a presentation last year at, um, our convention. Um, and I met, so watch this. Going back to my community college experience, was at that convention where I did that paper when I was

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Oh wow. Oh wow. Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And so he came up to my, to my poster, um, 'cause it was the undergrad scholars conference, like the, the little mini conference in the big conference. so, um, he came up to my poster. He was like, I really like your topic. Um, he was like, I think you, you know, I said, whenever you at, I'm at Westchester University, and whenever you're ready to go to grad school, [00:54:00] you should apply to our program and you should reach out.

You should, yeah. Just keep in contact with me. And

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: I did, I did that. And that's where I went to grad school. And so he was one of my mentors. I was his grad assistant, as well during that time. And, you know, we, we've kept in touch and we've worked together and I mean, he actually's trying to hire me to teach a class right now. and so, yeah, so that, that he's one, he's one guy. I would say. Um. Um, I would also say, uh, one of my, um, mentors, uh, her name is Poppy McLeod from Cornell University. Uh, I didn't, I didn't go to Cornell, but she was recruiting me for a faculty position at Cornell. Uh, and LY never worked out, but she really wanted me there. Um, what I learned from Poppy it was important for me during the time in [00:55:00] which we met, because one, again, I felt like there were a lot of professors who didn't consider themselves to be educators, and that really bugged me, seemed to really care about their students. This is what I was seeing right at, at the institution that I was a part of. And it just was. But when I met her, I reached, I reached out to her. 'cause I was trying to get, you know, I was trying to apply for postdocs and trying to network for faculty positions. Reached out to her. I fell in love with her approach to her students, her undergrads and grads.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: they love her she shows so much care for them. And I was like, that's it, that's

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah. Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: be that professor. and so her for sure, but there are other professors who I've never had, who I've never met that I [00:56:00] think I would like to shout out to. Um, bell Hooks is one of them.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Oh, can I tell a quick story about Bell Hooks?

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Go ahead.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: I would, um, I did, I did a live recording of the exit interview at South by Southwest this year. Yeah. Yeah. And so my friend Joy Adi Osborne was my guest. And we were in the green room waiting for the folks to walk us to our, to the stage for our, our live. And the woman, there were two women at the table, uh, with us, and they were going to present in a different room.

And on the back of my laptop was a, is a, um, a sticker of Bell Hooks. And the woman says, oh, I love Bell Hooks. She was my professor.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Oh my gosh. That's amazing.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: And Joey and I are like, what? She's like, yeah. She was my professor undergrad before she transferred to whatever she went to. And, and [00:57:00] I, I just loved her. She was such a great professor. And I used to go to her house and we used to cook at her house, and I saw her in the airport once and she screamed my name across the airport and I couldn't believe she remembered me.

And I'm sitting here thinking, of course Bell Hooks was a professor,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yeah.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: but I never think to see that her students would be around this, you know what I mean? And so when she said that, I was, and so this is like, she's having this conversation and I'm still thinking I gotta go live and do this podcast in like 10 minutes, but two like that.

I will never forget that day that I met. Yeah. One of her students. Um, so, but go ahead. Continue. Yes.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: I think for her, so like, I feel like that's like her approach to education and

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: to learning is like, I feel like I'm learning just by, I'm learning from her by reading her books,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yes, of course.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: teaching us how to love and teaching us how to build community

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: And how to transgress.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yes, yes, yes. And so, um, so she, her, [00:58:00] uh, another black educator, one of my favorite scholars, uh, Ru ha Benjamin, um, she's a professor of sociology at, um, Princeton University. when I heard one of my books, one of my, one of my favorite books of hers is Imagination. Um. I feel like I learned, what I learned from her is, you know, just continue to think about the worlds that don't exist yet.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: And that's where you put your energy, right? energy into addressing the problems. Um, providing for your imagination to flourish.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: yeah, so those are the black educators to me that have, uh, encouraged my journey. Both who I've, who I know personally and both who I and know, know personally, and those who I, I just been a part of.

Just 'cause of their re their, their work.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah. Thank you. Um, [00:59:00] my final question for you, for you, you, you spoke about therapy, um, and having mentors. So my question is like, for you, what does it mean to be Well,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: That's a good question. think, uh, for me what it means to be well is to, um, satisfied with and be content with your decisions to whatever

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: I.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: you pursuing. Um, and be okay with, uh, you know, some people not liking it. Some people not have proven none of this, some people upset about it, whatever the case may be.

But it is. But there's a certain level of satisfaction and, and happiness, that joy that comes with that you're doing what you want to do and you carved out your own way. Um, me that there, there's not too many greater feelings in that, right?

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: you know, [01:00:00] um, and so that's what being well means to me, but also just. You know, knowing that you, you have the ability to create and create and co-create with other people things that you want. Like, that is like, uh, because I feel like our society puts a lot of restrictions on us.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm-hmm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: You need to go to school for four years. You need to do it right after high school. You need to do it this way.

You go get your job, you go get this, you go get that. You know, a lot of those norms are starting to break though. Um, yeah. Gen Z's not having that

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Mm.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: they're, they're, they're

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: At all.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: you know, which I, which I'm for, right? I think it, I think it makes a lot of sense. Um, but to carve out your own path and to say, I'm gonna do things this way, um, in a way that's not, that may not have been done before.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Um, I think that, that to me is what is what wellness [01:01:00] includes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Thank you. Finally, you know, you're talking about this work, this mindset around what higher education could be, book clubs, lunch and learns. How can people find you if they wanna connect, if they wanna be a part of the movement that you're creating? Let's give us all the information.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Absolutely, absolutely. So you can connect with me directly, um, on Instagram. My direct Instagram is at Common Good President. so my,

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Hey, president,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: and so, um, and so. but the institute itself is at Institute for Common Good. And so you can find us there. Um, we also could connect with us on LinkedIn as well. Um, and so on both of those platforms is where we post our events, our um, our information about what's coming up, our new [01:02:00] initiatives that are coming down the pike.

And so, but also the final thing is our Substack. You could follow us on Substack

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: and pay that five folks. Don't be cheap.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: five. Now. We, we can take more offering now.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Yeah.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: and so. Um, that is also at Institute for Common Good. Um, yeah, so you can find us there as well.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: Yes.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: Um, shout again to Mia for connecting us. Uh,

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: thank you.

dr--asia-lyons--she-her-_1_08-31-2025_101513: y Yeah, thank you and you all take care of yourselves. We'll see you later. Peace.

lance-bennett_1_08-31-2025_111512: See y'all.